The online racing simulator
October Progress Report
(383 posts, closed, started )
Quote from Intrepid :I don't think you understand the nature of a creative process and creative people. Scawan and co couldn't have been more explicit in their description of their business and working model.

I think the way people act about this is borderline personality disorder territory. As if spending 25 quid entitles you to question someone business model which has been so clearly defined for the last 15 years.

I do notice that most of these complaints are from people who have never even come close to producing something anywhere near the quality of Live For Speed. The fact it's still being worked on is miraculous and should be celebrated.

heh coming from nowhere calling people names and assuming their expertise in the matter, you are no better than those who complain for the sake of complaining.

I do agree tho, creative process is restricted when there is some sort of deadline (I experience this first hand everydays), programers are somehow like artists and if they have enough freedom they can do wonders, but the moment you start interacting with clients even if you are a freelancer you will be pulled again by the pressure of getting the job done, this is just how things work when you try to get a living by selling your services.
With night time racing..... What about S.city and the buildings? Like the businesses along the part of S.City classic just past the chicane? Are those being considered too? And as far as lighting the car headlights.... will there be high beam/low beam? Will the lights automatically come on? Or will you have to map out a button somewhere to manually turn them on/off?
I think it works nicely at South City.
The attached shot is of the OLD South City, which I have been using for testing purposes.
This is NOT the updated South City which Eric has been working on.
Attached images
SO_old_night.jpg
Quote from k_badam :As much as I love LFS, the only thing that is wrong about this is that I don't think we need anything to hold us for an extra couple months. We've stayed here with virtually stagnant development for many years, don't think anyone who is still here will be leaving that soon... Which is a shame because I think people not playing anymore is the kick in the backside that Scavier really need to get some updates going.

I mostly agree with your statement apart from really being stagnant, Its probably that the work that has been done does not apply for your use of LFS, For us that use VR plenty has been done and scawen has shown what they are working on

Back on topic. Really looking forward when its released, would love to see how it is in VR
Quote from Scawen :I think it works nicely at South City.
The attached shot is of the OLD South City, which I have been using for testing purposes.
This is NOT the updated South City which Eric has been working on.

I can imagine how great the finale Southcity will look! Thumbs up

Is LFS capable of animated shaders ? (just got some weird idea about having animated adv as side track obj)
Quote from Intrepid :I don't think you understand the nature of a creative process and creative people. Scawan and co couldn't have been more explicit in their description of their business and working model.

I think the way people act about this is borderline personality disorder territory. As if spending 25 quid entitles you to question someone business model which has been so clearly defined for the last 15 years.

I do notice that most of these complaints are from people who have never even come close to producing something anywhere near the quality of Live For Speed. The fact it's still being worked on is miraculous and should be celebrated.

I don't think you understand. You are fully entitled to suggest things for the game you are playing even if you haven't paid for it. You are completely confusing business model with game development. We don't question LFS's business model, as you know, it's simplistic. You pay for cars and tracks, no ads. The most widespread business model.

I never understood the argument "you can't make that, don't give criticism". Believe it or not, 99.9% of the players of most games haven't actually made a game like that. But does this mean they can't discuss things about the game? The fact that they have been using that working model for a long time doesn't make it a good way to actually develop games.
Quote from Scawen :I think it works nicely at South City.
The attached shot is of the OLD South City, which I have been using for testing purposes.
This is NOT the updated South City which Eric has been working on.

Dare to post the updated one to make the comparison ? Tongue

Very nice and excited to see the night ! I made some tests in ACC by night and for sure it is the kind of feature LFS must have !
And for the future, add the fresh air impact on engine/grip ..., then rain, snow ... LFS Heart
Quote from BerdyGaming :The fact that they have been using that working model for a long time doesn't make it a good way to actually develop games.

... it's a fantastic model for... THEM. It's a really simple thing to understand
I start to imagine more and more how events will be done 24 hours !!
Running in Kyoto will be beautiful !!
Wow South City by night is b*d*ss!
Quote from Intrepid :... it's a fantastic model for... THEM. It's a really simple thing to understand

Thing is, they aren't the only people playing the game
Um... we're the ones spending every day working on this, as a creative adventure. Intrepid really understands this, very well. And a lot of people in our community do understand that we take our time and work on things in a different way from other businesses and get some good results.

A lot of people seem to fall for this capitalist idea that the sole purpose of working (or even of life itself) is to make as much money as possible. Well, making money may excite some people and get them out of bed in the morning but for us, work is about trying to create something we like. The priorities aren't about maximising income or getting things done as quickly as possible.

I realise it's very hard to understand for some people, maybe because of the general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation. But there are many faults with the way we humans have organised ourselves. Make yourself aware, have a look around, we are causing an environmental crisis because of our endless quest for growth and profit. It's so bad it is leading to mass extinctions and may well result in our own extinction. So that's how great modern capitalism is. The world would really be a better place if people would calm down and stop trying to earn as much money as possible so they can buy the latest phone and a bigger car and all this ridiculous nonsense. Life is better when you slow down, take time to enjoy the world around you, take time and pride in your work. I don't say these things as a bunch of hollow words to ignore, I really mean that a calmer life is better for the individual and the whole world community.

So we aren't one bit interested in giving up our approach to work, that makes us happy, because some people think we should be doing something different. There are other companies that work the way you think we should work, and their products are available to you if you would like to buy them. You are free to do so, and still have a go on LFS when an update becomes available.

I'm enjoying the journey of discovery in the new graphics and lighting. And that's what matters, to me. I'm not interested in working to someone else's set of priorities and schedule, because if I was then I would be a lot better off working in someone else's company.
Quote from Scawen :Um... we're the ones spending every day working on this, as a creative adventure. Intrepid really understands this, very well. And a lot of people in our community do understand that we take our time and work on things in a different way from other businesses and get some good results.

A lot of people seem to fall for this capitalist idea that the sole purpose of working (or even of life itself) is to make as much money as possible. Well, making money may excite some people and get them out of bed in the morning but for us, work is about trying to create something we like. The priorities aren't about maximising income or getting things done as quickly as possible.

I realise it's very hard to understand for some people, maybe because of the general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation. But there are many faults with the way we humans have organised ourselves. Make yourself aware, have a look around, we are causing an environmental crisis because of our endless quest for growth and profit. It's so bad it is leading to mass extinctions and may well result in our own extinction. So that's how great modern capitalism is. The world would really be a better place if people would calm down and stop trying to earn as much money as possible so they can buy the latest phone and a bigger car and all this ridiculous nonsense. Life is better when you slow down, take time to enjoy the world around you, take time and pride in your work. I don't say these things as a bunch of hollow words to ignore, I really mean that a calmer life is better for the individual and the whole world community.

So we aren't one bit interested in giving up our approach to work, that makes us happy, because some people think we should be doing something different. There are other companies that work the way you think we should work, and their products are available to you if you would like to buy them. You are free to do so, and still have a go on LFS when an update becomes available.

I'm enjoying the journey of discovery in the new graphics and lighting. And that's what matters, to me. I'm not interested in working to someone else's set of priorities and schedule, because if I was then I would be a lot better off working in someone else's company.

The funny thing is that we are sort of forced to live the way you described around here, as jobs opportunity are non-existent, I am personally fine as a freelancer (for now), but people think in our modern society happiness and success in life is getting a full time job and consuming as much as your money can afford, which is simply wrong.

But I do understand that some competencies are not compatible with self-employment environment, as many people are forced to find a full time just to survive, sometimes you don't have the luxury of choices.
Quote from Scawen :Um... we're the ones spending every day working on this, as a creative adventure. Intrepid really understands this, very well. And a lot of people in our community do understand that we take our time and work on things in a different way from other businesses and get some good results...

+1
Words of wisdom
Looks like Left-Green coming out, and I have nothing to say about the green movement, although there are a lot of their problems and frankly stupid things of individual activists, but I sincerely hope that socialism communism is not considered the best idea for society as the opposite of capitalism, but capitalism also has many problems,it is capitalist societies that offer the best economic growth, a better standard of living and a better level of happiness among the population of all societies in practice, and I live in Russia and believe me, I heard a lot of arguments from the left discourse, 99% of these people are idiots.
Please be prudent, almost all modern left-wing discourse is contradicted by Marx himself, Marx quote: Practice Is the Sole Criterion of Truth.
Thanks for the replies.

Quote from lfsrm :...but people think in our modern society happiness and success in life is getting a full time job and consuming as much as your money can afford, which is simply wrong.

But I do understand that some competencies are not compatible with self-employment environment, as many people are forced to find a full time just to survive, sometimes you don't have the luxury of choices.

The normal thing in England seems to be to get the highest paid job possible, even if it means travelling a very long way to work, then buying the most expensive house possible on your salary, at which point you are enslaved to your boss and cannot speak out or defend youself for fear of losing your job.

I believe people should get a job nearer home and allow themselves more time to spend doing the things they really like to do (I don't mean getting drunk). And try to get a home that is within their means, so there is some spare capacity and they can tell their boss to shove it if they are out of order.

I do realise that many people are just trying to survive. But I find it crazy when I see fairly well off people voluntarily enslaving themselves and working stupidly long hours, while other people can't even get a job.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :Looks like Left-Green coming out, and I have nothing to say about the green movement, although there are a lot of their problems and frankly stupid things of individual activists, but I sincerely hope that socialism communism is not considered the best idea for society as the opposite of capitalism, but capitalism also has many problems,it is capitalist societies that offer the best economic growth, a better standard of living and a better level of happiness among the population of all societies in practice, and I live in Russia and believe me, I heard a lot of arguments from the left discourse, 99% of these people are idiots.
Please be prudent, almost all modern left-wing discourse is contradicted by Marx himself, Marx quote: Practice Is the Sole Criterion of Truth.

Yeah it's a tough one. I really care about the environment and feel it is a great tragedy to cut down every forest and eliminate the amazing animals and plants that live there. So terrible but this is the result of growth.

I really hate economic growth and believe we need 'stability' rather than growth. Growth is based on the idea that everyone's income needs to increase every year for them to be happy. But my income has decreased every year for the last decade and I've found out that is fine, because my happiness is not based on buying things. I do realise that I have been lucky and things would be a big problem if income decreased to the point where I could not pay the bills.

I'm sure that if we globally aimed for stability instead of growth, then we wouldn't deplete resources and increase pollution at an ever increasing rate. We also need to make sure everyone can control their own family sizes because our population is still rapidly increasing, which is crazy on an overpopulated planet.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand in the sense of socialism and so on but I think there is a serious problem with rampant capitalism where people are encouraged to be selfish and keep buying products to fuel the ever increasing economy. There must be regulation, but we need real freedom too, so there can be innovation and the ability to set up interesting businesses, like Live for Speed. Smile
I'm so hyped by the South City screen shot! I can wait, plenty of other games (and of course current LFS) I can play to tide me over :-)

EDIT: Having a local job that I can cycle-commute to is amazing. It really delineates work and personal time better than working from home does, and no horrible trains or queues of cars to get stuck in...
To me, what you described Scawen is more 'consumer society' than simply 'capitalism'. And indeed you are right and free to live the life you choose. But in my opinion, and as Aleksandr_124rus is writting, it is somewhere because of of this economic growth that we, "people from rich countries", are able to choose our way to live our lives (i.e. : in some countries, people working 16h per day to 'survive' may have less opportunities than us to choose a "better life") ... Nothing is fully black and white Wink
Anyway, enjoy developping LFS !
Quote from Scawen : We also need to make sure everyone can control their own family sizes because our population is still rapidly increasing, which is crazy on an overpopulated planet.

This. I can't understand how irresponsible people become, many can't even manage their own but at the same time dreaming about wives and kids...
Quote from Flotch :To me, what you described Scawen is more 'consumer society' than simply 'capitalism'. And indeed you are right and free to live the life you choose. But in my opinion, and as Aleksandr_124rus is writting, it is somewhere because of of this economic growth that we, "people from rich countries", are able to choose our way to live our lives (i.e. : in some countries, people working 16h per day to 'survive' may have less opportunities than us to choose a "better life") ... Nothing is fully black and white Wink
Anyway, enjoy developping LFS !

I agree, economic growth has brought many lifestyle benefits, along with the increasing pollution and depletion of natural resources and destruction of habitats.

The problem is we are no longer a small community of humans on a big planet. More growth means more pollution and more resource depletion. We are already far past the limits the planet can sustain, and further economic growth would mean that every year we will consume and pollute even more than the year before, which is indeed happening.

Infinite growth is simply not possible on a finite planet, so regardless of how beneficial economic growth has been in the past, there is a limit to the size of economy that our planet can sustain, and it does seem according to all the evidence that we are already well beyond that limit.

Quote from lfsrm :This. I can't understand how irresponsible people become, many can't even manage their own but at the same time dreaming about wives and kids...

I do just want to emphasise that I just want it to be possible for all people to be able to manage their own families. It is to do with education, and also provision of family planning services that we already have the benefit of in richer countries.
Quote from Scawen :I think it works nicely at South City.
The attached shot is of the OLD South City, which I have been using for testing purposes.
This is NOT the updated South City which Eric has been working on.

omg, this is not a dream!

i really loving this!


i know you dont like questions like this scawen, but one day lfs can have a "oficial" modding suport?
Yes, there will be at some point. Probably.
Quote from Scawen :A lot of people seem to fall for this capitalist idea that the sole purpose of working (or even of life itself) is to make as much money as possible. Well, making money may excite some people and get them out of bed in the morning but for us, work is about trying to create something we like. The priorities aren't about maximising income or getting things done as quickly as possible.

I realise it's very hard to understand for some people, maybe because of the general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation. But there are many faults with the way we humans have organised ourselves. Make yourself aware, have a look around, we are causing an environmental crisis because of our endless quest for growth and profit. It's so bad it is leading to mass extinctions and may well result in our own extinction. So that's how great modern capitalism is. The world would really be a better place if people would calm down and stop trying to earn as much money as possible so they can buy the latest phone and a bigger car and all this ridiculous nonsense. Life is better when you slow down, take time to enjoy the world around you, take time and pride in your work. I don't say these things as a bunch of hollow words to ignore, I really mean that a calmer life is better for the individual and the whole world community.

This must be one of the best things i've read this year, and i must say i agree 100%, i've lost friends who were totally obsessed with money, which is in my opinion one of the dumbest ways to live your life.
Not to mention that most people like to judge others by the amount of money they have, or where they spend it on, the whole thing just causes unnecesary stress to everyone involved.

And it can come from unexpected sources too, i was sick for quite a long time and even now when i'm finally able to work again after many months my parents are still arguing that i should try to get a better paid job.
Eventhough i'm quite content with where i am atm, doing MOT's in a workshop closeby, especially considering my previous situation.

It's really no wonder that there are so many depressed people out there these days.
Capitalism is evil yeah yeah, of course. Capitalism have many problems yes, but Copitalism is always opposed to socialism.. When I know what's in my homeland in fact, not so long ago, government bodies could have shot you just because you have the wrong last name, or kill you (kulak) and take your farm and land from your family simply because you didn’t to give it to a public collective farm, or u can get 10 years of Gulag just for juke about Stalin, Denunciations, Сollectivization, Iron Curtain, State propaganda, 2 millions tortured and killed in Gulag, and etc. This is too long a list to all the great advantages of socialism.

I would just propose to not forget that at modern capitalism people have not yet lived better throughout the history of mankind since that they live now. And that in addition to the developed and the least Developed Countries (LDCs), there are developing and LDCs countries that only dream of living like Britain or America. Excuse me, just sometimes it's just funny to hear how capitalism is Evil because someone has depression, or something similar to conspiracy theories "general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation"Looking wtf..

If you want details or a reasoned discussion just write to my pm, but i propose to close the political topic, otherwise it’s possible to get to the propaganda of socialism here, in my opinion this is not what you would like. And the more I do not want to breed political squabble here.
Peace to everyone.Heart
There's plenty of examples worldwide that show that socialism doesn't include mass imprisonment and torture of the population.
This thread is closed

October Progress Report
(383 posts, closed, started )
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