Here it is again, straight for the ad hominem, the "you haven't played it enough" card. It's become so predictable it's not even funny anymore.
What can I say, when it comes to criticizing this game, all the fanboys become toxic.
P.S. I spent most of my time in SP, because, guess what? There's mostly demo racing or league racing doesn't fit my schedules. Or perhaps, there's nobody going for the same car-track combo I am.
But looks like here you have to drive 1 trillion laps or you won't have the right to voice your opinion.

Worry not, this is going to be my last post for quite a while, at least until the devs will pick up some pace.

If they ever will

No you require 2 trillion laps for me to take notice

Quote from simon1234 :

Just had a quick look at your account in 11 years you have hardy played the game anyway 1409 laps.

That doesn't make his opinion less valid.

You can keep mentioning how much you want that you keep returning to the game blablabla, but both you and EVERYONE else who keep saying that are just random sunday racers who mainly race slowboats around BL...though there's nothing more than demo servers dominating the master server.

Don't take this wrong, LFS was a huge deal years ago and it established itself as a very capable sim. But c'mon, it's almost 2020 and you guys are still living in 2009 with your ''I keep returning to LFS cuz the spectating feature is nice and ppl share setups unlike in other sims where for some reason that random pablo from Spain doesnt want to share his setup and it hurt my feelings ;(((( ''

Still living in tyres-that-don't-feel-woolly-regardless-of-release-date, myself, but I can't speak for anyone else. I'd also like to note that I don't hang around in PS2 Gran Turismo forums telling people that they're wrong to use it, let alone anonymously telling them why they think the way they do.

The problem is that people who claim to have moved on are here leaving a pretty shitty message to anyone new poking around the forums to get a feel for LFS, and especially so in the threads about development.

Quote from False hope :

That doesn't make his opinion less valid.

You can keep mentioning how much you want that you keep returning to the game blablabla, but both you and EVERYONE else who keep saying that are just random sunday racers who mainly race slowboats around BL...though there's nothing more than demo servers dominating the master server.

Don't take this wrong, LFS was a huge deal years ago and it established itself as a very capable sim. But c'mon, it's almost 2020 and you guys are still living in 2009 with your ''I keep returning to LFS cuz the spectating feature is nice and ppl share setups unlike in other sims where for some reason that random pablo from Spain doesnt want to share his setup and it hurt my feelings ;(((( ''

I did not mention spectating or sharing sets, I can load the game at any time and be guaranteed good clean racing.


And yes I spend most of my time on the MRc demo servers. But every saturday we fill s2 servers with between 30 and 40 drivers.

When does the 24-hour plug-in arrive?

Quote from Racon :

PS2 Gran Turismo forums

Its not PS2 Gran Turismo forums thats the thing, what does it say in the top middle?

If the developer claims that South City 2.0 is well worth the wait then people react on this, it's not really rocket science.

Quote from hondacivicc :

When does the 24-hour plug-in arrive?

To be expected with a larger massive update of tracks, shadows (+ greener grass ) and what not. Simply wait.

The thing that everyone does not remember when talking about these other sims is do you think they will still be around and have the servers populated when they are the same age as LFS currently is, Most users who complain about new tracks and cars are a lot of the time the same racers who have driven under 1000 laps in over 10 years and will complain no matter what is or is not released

Its funny - i own AC and dont really play it much. On the instances i did play it i found the field skill level and driving experience shambles.

Quote from bishtop :

Most users .. 1000 laps in over 10 years and .. is not released

And? A forum is a discussion platform. An opinion is not less or more valuable based on the amount of laps, years or skin color.

Quote from bishtop :

The thing that everyone does not remember when talking about these other sims is do you think they will still be around and have the servers populated when they are the same age as LFS currently is, Most users who complain about new tracks and cars are a lot of the time the same racers who have driven under 1000 laps in over 10 years and will complain no matter what is or is not released

And still commenting in the July 2019 update post in nearly mid October 2019........

LFS has it's own development speed (Was that polite and tactful ?), I'm just uncertain if the user base will still be there if and when we actually see the main update this sim needs.

Graphics and track updates are nice, shame there is NO online racing in this half of the world so it's not appreciated for the many hours of labour that have been dedicated to it.

I'm still looking forward to the long awaited physics update that may bring back online racing but till that happens I find that AC has a much better single player mode, other games offer actual online racing so I'll just continue to enjoy the many other sim options out there.

I'm sorry that the great graphic and track options are not being seen by most sim racers because LFS single player is not the best AI experience that I've found out there. (Still trying to be tactful here. )

Quote from cargame.nl :

And? A forum is a discussion platform. An opinion is not less or more valuable based on the amount of laps, years or skin color.

I agree that everyone's opinion is equal, but never confuse someones opinion with the truth or facts about anything. If someone expects to be instantly good at something but they find the opposite then its common place to lay blame on the game itself rather than see it as they themselves that are the problem and not the game itself(dunning kruger effect) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect)

I am not trying to put someone down or offend anyone in regards of stating if they have only having driven so little in a few years, but i will state that if someone has no interest in the first place or misplace the blame on the game it then means they not giving LFS a real chance and will speak ill regardless which does matter

Heres an example the first time i played chess was at the age of 5 years old and i have played it a few times in the following 33 years, so in the same context as the post i am on about if i say i have been a chess player for 33 years while in a debate about chess, would it not give the false impression i am a very experienced player with 33 years experience and wrongly add weight to my opinion yet in reality i would not have that much experience having only played a few times

(@scawen sorry for derailing the thread even more by replying to off-topic post)

@Racer X NZ LFS has always had its own development speed , most projects may have many patch releases early on then they start to lessen over time. Tell me what other game/simulator gets updated often after more than 16 years.
I feel for you in regards of racing from your side of the world, it must be frustrating as hell

Quote from bishtop :

Tell me what other game/simulator gets updated often after more than 16 years.

The big difference with a lot of sims is that their content is community-made. So that's something that keeps things interesting. People still play rFactor because there are loads of good tracks/cars, even though the last update was a few years ago. I think the same will go for AC for example when it will age and no longer receive official updates.

Quote from Bose321 :

The big difference with a lot of sims is that their content is community-made. So that's something that keeps things interesting. People still play rFactor because there are loads of good tracks/cars, even though the last update was a few years ago. I think the same will go for AC for example when it will age and no longer receive official updates.

And even older games than rfactor, Richard Burns Rally for example.

IMHO - RBR and GP Legends, two of the best racing sims ever are kept (very) alive with community mods........

Automobilista, my current single player go to, has many mods for cars and tracks and it's physics are about as good as LFS (in my opinion ), and the AI are light years better than LFS's.
If and when LFS actually updates the physics and AI ( There is NO multiplayer here now ) then great, till then there is no reason to update to S3 (I've got Rockingham in Automobilista, and many, many more tracks including most NZ & Aus tracks .... )

LFS has it's own development speed and refuses to allow mods, fair enough as that's the dev's choice.

The fact that it's regularly hacked suggests that it's still a good racing sim, but it does need an active community to keep the game alive.

As we can't have mods in LFS then we can only wait for the Dev's to actually release the updates, and till then I'm enjoying the other sim's available out there.

Modded games are really the way to involve the community and keep games fresh, alive, and current. ( In my opinion, just look at Skyrim as an example. )

EDIT:
LFS updates post 2005.*

1: - VR, Yeah Right..... Like most gamers ( and most Racing Game dev's )I really don't care yet.... Yes, awesome idea BUT it's only going to be a winner with 4th or 5th gen gear in a game that actually has a user base online racing.

2: - Better track detail, I enjoy (RS)RBR, GP Legends and Automobilista as games, not for their awesome graphics.....
Track detail is nice, but it's only icing on the cake.

*LFS was used by Turtle Entertainment and Volkswagen to showcase the new Scirocco in Leipzig Games Convention in 2008. A competition using LFS was held and the prize was a real Scirocco car. The Scirocco release for Live for Speed had been scheduled for December 19, 2008, however it has been delayed indefinitely due to unexpected fatal flaws in the latest patch and with the Scirocco itself, forcing the LFS team to remake the suspension system and tire physics.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

LFS has it's own development speed and refuses to allow mods,

It does, it even has it's own server flag. But okay, it's quite limited. If car mods would be allowed with customizable "hitbox" it would already be a big step forward. The thing is that this alternative development build seems to block regular development for ten years now so we can discuss what we want but it doesn't matter.

Only thing what needs to be clear is that South City 2.0 on its own doesn't change anything other then some legal and illegal cruising servers going to be happy with that. And, some VR users. If the "worth to wait" comment was targeted towards this group it's fine. It sure stirs up some development discussion (again).

hello
when are we going to be able to change things?

Scawen's said before that he would need to do a lot of work on the track editor to make it publicly releasable, and that that's the plan* for when he considers LFS finished.

(*plan, not sworn oath signed in blood )

Quote from Racer X NZ :

2: - Better track detail, I enjoy (RS)RBR, GP Legends and Automobilista as games, not for their awesome graphics.....
Track detail is nice, but it's only icing on the cake.

The currently-in-work update isn't only about rebuilding track surroundings and object details, but it is a requirement to refresh all definitions of materials and textures to work correctly with the new lighting model.

With the new lighting model you get not only more track detail, but also time-of-day graphical effects which is important for the 24h races being a possibility in the future.

I hope we can agree endurance races with sun-movement is more than just a "track detail" (IMO it's substantial part of the gameplay experience with endurance racing, even if it would "just" graphical effect and nothing more). The current patch is of course only one step toward that, so it may feel like "meh, just details", but without this step there wouldn't be the following ones.


BTW, with regards to modding... so after this new shader/lighting system will be released, guess what would happen to all the mod-content out there, if the LFS would allow modding. Yep, it would render in wrong colours/lighting and generally talking it would be broken and each piece would need fixes from the community.

I don't think that would be accepted very well either (I don't want to guess what is worse, if not allowing modding, or breaking all mods at the same time with new version, I have no idea, I just don't see any fully-happy scenario except "release tomorrow new version with new content, shaders, physics, modding tools, curated leagues, etc..." and that's obviously not going to happen).

I was wondering, is there a complete list of things planned to be added to LFS in the future? Things that are being worked on, and what's planned?

I keep reading about so many things here that's it's easy to forget half of it.

Quote from Ped7g :

I hope we can agree endurance races with sun-movement is more than just a "track detail" (IMO it's substantial part of the gameplay experience with endurance racing, even if it would "just" graphical effect and nothing more). The current patch is of course only one step toward that, so it may feel like "meh, just details", but without this step there wouldn't be the following ones.

I fully agree with your post, however given that;

A: There has been no online racing in this region for a long time, so no active user base.
B: The AI do not encourage short single player races, let alone long ones.

This isn't a complaint and for the online racing that is happening in other parts of the world then this will be great.
I can't really see it increasing the user base in this region though.

Do you have a TBE on the update release date?

Quote from BerdyGaming :

Do you have a TBE on the update release date?

"to be edited"? They have it all the time on any release date/content.

If you meant it like "expected", then this was expected long time ago (by most people, including the devs themselves):
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/91876

I somehow hope there will be October progress report with SC .. then there's how many track left? one or two or three? Hm... if it's more than one, then I guess my contest-guess of 03/2020 is slowly getting on the optimistic side of things... but maybe the test-patch will still make it.

But there was no new info on tires physics for long time, and depending how much Scawen will push for that, this may easily take another year or two, if it feels like it's almost done, but it will turn out to be broken in one way or another after every fix... Sometimes the development of these things can be quite unforgiving and "unlucky", and they are done only when they are done, no matter how many deadlines you write down and how you plan your development. If the reality has different plans...

I honestly feel that the tracks should've gotten released when they got finished and not every map update waiting for the others to be finished and they can only get released when the physics update gets finished.