The online racing simulator
New Version 0.6T - More robust multiplayer system
(226 posts, started )
Quote from Evolution_R :..."LFS "runs" at 100 Hz, so you're going to end up with a little stuttering if your display is locked at 60 Hz."
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So my question is this going to be improved somehow with the new graphics / physics update? Thanks!

It's a good question. If I can get the graphics ready to a condition that is suitable for this release and could then get back on the physics so that is suitable in time for Eric to have finished the tracks, then this opens the possibility of working on separate physics and graphics threads. That would be a great help and the plan would be to combine this with some means of producing visual frames at the correct visual frequency for the monitor. That would either be by using a high frequency physics update that can be interrupted at any point for a graphical frame, or by using a lower frequency physics update that can be interpolated to produce graphical frames.

Obviously the graphics needs to be done then that would make it releasable, even with the current physics and it's possible this may happen. But I really hope I can sort out the new physics so we can move on.
Higher frequency physics plus an improved sidewall model sounds like nirvana Big grin

I have often thought that a "small" increase of physics clock to 180Hz would work well for VR users at half that as well as dividing well for the rest of us are 60Hz but maybe this is an over-simplification!
hi . i can't join to some hosts. lfs when go on waiting for ok . did stop . and that error is .did not receive ok . why i can't join to some server ?. pls help me
Quote from Scawen :... then this opens the possibility of working on separate physics and graphics threads.

Probably a stupid question, but I have no experience in programming threads:

More threads means not multi-core support. Threads are (only) sub processes of the main process? Correct?

Will multi-core be supported by LFS in the future? What are your plans for multi-core or is this already one of the items on your work list?

The background of this question is that currently my CPU or their clock limits the performance with a big AI (>20) field. Not really critical at the moment but perhaps after the graphic/shadow system update? No idea if that could be related. Do I just have to be patient when you release the next version or should I look for a higher-clocked, newer CPU (anyway)? ;-) Currently I'm using an (old) i7-2600K with 3.4 GHz.

BTW: Thanks for the two screenshots. I am very much looking forward to further pictures.
Quote from alireza d1 :hi . i can't join to some hosts. lfs when go on waiting for ok . did stop . and that error is .did not receive ok . why i can't join to some server ?. pls help me

It's usually internet connected issue and it doesn't last long. You can also look into this topic https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/75460

Also, this is a wrong topic to ask this question, better post it in "Technical Assistance" section Wink, where people will be more than happy to help you.
apply
Quote from sermilan :It's usually internet connected issue and it doesn't last long. You can also look into this topic https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/75460

Also, this is a wrong topic to ask this question, better post it in "Technical Assistance" section Wink, where people will be more than happy to help you.

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ok very thanks.
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(Evolution_R) DELETED by Evolution_R : Dublicate
Scawen, I applaud all three of you for your dedication to LFS. I haven't played for many years now, but I occasionally come back to check on progress. And progressed it has. Can't believe it's been 14 years since I first downloaded it. I can't wait to see what S3 brings. May it continue to prosper. And perhaps one of these days i'll get back into it...

On a side note, I remember in S1 as you went down the straight on Blackwood, there was a small cloud of dust that got kicked up behind the car just before the bridge. I always thought that was a nice touch and wondered why it got omitted in later versions?
Quote from joaopaulopt :friends needed your opinion, because I'm really afraid that I'll be one of those who will not be able to play LFS with future updates Frown
I'm already in a laptop (I still can not find means to get a tower) and my laptop is like this

Intel P6100 @ 2.00 GHz
Memory 4.00 GB
AMD Mobility Radeon HD 5000 Series


Do you think it's hard to cope with these new updates? is that I am really worried about this because so soon I think that I will not be able to have a fixed pc ready, maybe it will take even longer than two Months and until I still walk with this one that I can handle the LFS perfectly

If your pc is capable of playing any other game released later than 2014 then you should be fine IF the LFS update is released today......

It won't be, nor will it be released for 'a while', (enter time period here.)

As LFS has spent a lot of time developing VR, which does not run on a potato, then when the graphics, followed by physics update is 'actually' released you will have had enough time to enter the 21st century and actually have a pc that is capable of dealing with 2014 minimum graphics requirements.

Seriously, if you want to play 'current' games on a pc, spend some money on putting together a gaming pc. Or, just play on your playstation or xbox.

LFS has run on a potato for many, many, many years. It would be nice to actually see some product that has moved on from it's current state, which has not developed or changed for many years.

Sorry, there have been developments in DoS protection........
No further comment on this.......

EDIT: FFS, I can put together a decent gaming PC for NZ$600 that will run any current gen game at 60 FPS, it isn't hard to do. This will also run LFS with VR. Do try to get your **** together if you want to play 'current' games on pc.

News Flash - technology does in fact move on, and, at 'some' stage, so will LFS min requirements.
Quote from Pasci :More threads means not multi-core support. Threads are (only) sub processes of the main process? Correct?

First, a thread is not a process. A process is what you would see in the Windows Task Manager. One of the hidden-by-default columns in Task Manager is the number of threads that a process is using.

It is very possible to have multi-core support by using multiple threads working in parallel, however just having multiple threads doesn't mean that you would get any benefit by running them across multiple cores. They must be able to perform tasks in parallel, somewhat independently.

One of the easiest ways of doing this for games is to split different tasks that do not depend on eachother (in the current tick at any rate) - splitting off AI, graphics and physics into their own threads is probably a good example, though there are some complications.
Alternatively, having a thread per car (or a small number of cars) would be another way to relieve the single-core burden of physics and AI, as - apart from car to car collision detection - the different cars are independent from eachother, which allows the different threads to easily work in parallel.

Depending on how the different threads are used and interact, there will be various limits on how many CPU cores can be effectively utilised.


Contrary to what many web browser developers would have you believe, you do not need multiple processes to have multi-core support. In fact, having multiple processes is usually less efficient than multiple threads in a single process.


Quote from Pasci :Will multi-core be supported by LFS in the future? What are your plans for multi-core or is this already one of the items on your work list?

I believe Scawen has said that multi-core support is already on the list of things to do, but I can't find the quote. I did find this one:

Quote from Scawen :So now, these "cores", which are basically multiple CPUs on a chip, must follow their own sections of code (threads) which are quite independent from each other. And so the only way to speed up a program on a multi core CPU is to split the code up into separate threads.

The obvious separation for LFS would be physics on one thread, graphics on another. The operating system can then run one thread on one core and the other thread on another core. It's quite a rewrite but as so many computers are dual core, this one seems like it would be quite a good idea. It's quite a change though, the physics system needs to provide a "snapshot" of the position and orientation of every object, so that the graphics renderer can render a picture of this snapshot while the physics system is generating the next frame.

Then it seems to me if you had things like dynamically changing weather, you could generate some of the effects on yet another thread, possibly doing those effects in more detail on a more powerful computer. That kind of thing would always be at a lower priority though. While dual cores are common, that would be the target, unless there were obvious tasks for a third core.

Hey Scawen
And what about being made a trailer of the new version as they did with some old ones on the official LFS channel on youtube Smile

Bet a little more on your channel to help promote more LiveForSpeed Smile
Everything can be a great help to promote your work even more Smile
Of course it would be awsome, but doing trailers and other media stuffs are time consumming ... so it is more difficult for the few people doing LFS to do these ...
Could we get PMO_GET_Z to work with dedi host in future update?
Also before 0.6T it was possible to place an object using IS_AXM with UCID of a player that is not an admin, in 0.6T we get "IS_AXM (PMO_ADD_OBJECTS) - UCID is not an admin" error.

Was this change intended?

I know we can set UCID of an admin or host to place an object but for example LFSLapper addon was using UCID from AXM info to detect which player placed the object. So this is no longer possible since AXM info would return "fake" UCID.
Quote from Scawen :NOTE: I'm just thinking out loud, these thoughts are how I imagine things going, not how it will actually happen, and they are not promises.

Need to get Vic to bring back signatures so you can just keep this on all messages XD
Quote from LakynVonLegendaus :Could we get PMO_GET_Z to work with dedi host in future update?

The dedi host doesn't load the track model, it doesn't know where the ground is.
Quote from Racon :The dedi host doesn't load the track model, it doesn't know where the ground is.

Couldn't the insim get that info from player that would be requesting it? Just like it does with PMO_SELECTION (if I understand it right).
Massive lag and eventual server crash just now on FM FOX Friday server... looks like DDoS
Quote from sermilan :Massive lag and eventual server crash just now on FM FOX Friday server... looks like DDoS

People always can attack servers nothing to do with master server and with this patch Smile
Quote from RC-Maus :People always can attack servers nothing to do with master server and with this patch Smile

But what about "More robust multiplayer system", aren't we better protected from those attacks now (I'm really a technical noob, so don't mind me asking Smile)?
Just means Devs took care about their web and I think they made dcon tries to connect with master server more frequent.


But when someone attacks the server where the host is running on it easy goes down. (one dosser easy to detect but ddos u get so many ip's impossible to know (and infact every nub can do it))
Quote from Degats :...

Thank you for your extensive explantation - That help me to understand such things a little better.
Quote from sermilan :But what about "More robust multiplayer system", aren't we better protected from those attacks now (I'm really a technical noob, so don't mind me asking Smile)?

When you are playing online in LFS, there are two servers involved. One is "master" server of LFS devs, validating your license and collecting data about actual race-servers (their addresses, mode, configuration, available cars, etc), allowing you to search for some server. The other server is the actual game server, where the race is going on, and belongs to people who provide game servers.

Now if you attack the master server, and force it to choke on the traffic or crash, basically nobody can connect to any game any more. If you attack particular game server, then only the players trying to play on that server are affected.

The latest patch was about strengthening the master server, so there's no single-point-of-failure bringing down all games/players.
Thanks guys for your explanations! Thumbs up
do not break your F5 key
Final straight, latest weekend of August is coming !!!
Quote from Flotch :Final straight, latest weekend of August is coming !!!

Omg omg omg But almost whole next week

New Version 0.6T - More robust multiplayer system
(226 posts, started )
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