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Kunos Simulazioni - Assetto Corsa
(8874 posts, started )
Quote from lfsrm :
Quote from kars19 :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7OOLxusP-U
http://nordschleifeproject.blogspot.ca/

looking very good, but it's ripped from GTR evo right ?

Right, and that's way this track never gets topic on AC or RD forums, sure looks better then Snoopy's version, but I don't get why this guy is bothering with it, when the KS version will be even superior.
edit:
Watched that video again, daaamn that Ring looks so much better then Snoopy's, the trackside objects, the grass, the trees, the rumble strips, the shadows that pass through the 3d guardrails, the graffiti and tarmac textures, the track side cameras, the everything, and track itself is more accurate.
Can we download it yet?
"Getting real close to a 1.0 version. (actually, it could be, but we'll likely find a thing or two, so I'm leaving myself a little head room until 1.0)"(c)Pierre-André Leclair

Gp circuit looks even better then KS version Big grin more trackside objects
..ok maybe not, but not far off
his last update on teh blog was in September, I doubt we get a V1.0 anytime
What's the deal with this car, how does it feel so good? Did you used any fake trickeries like some effects that shouldn't be felt through the steering wheel or something?
Just be as anal as possible when going through the suspension setup. Calculate every bit, double check every measurement you have, try to understand what every term means, understand how and why it works and matters. Try to visualize everything you can in excel or in some other software. Then drive it. If it does odd things try to learn what is causing it. Don't adjust anything based on feel. Only use feel to find issues. Never try some random value. Try to use math to fix them. And accept good feedback If all else fails see what others are doing (kunos has all tires available so it is not full darkness labyrinth like in rf1 was at the time).

Apart from the tires I feel I achieved that. And with the tires nobody knows what the values actually do. Xmu is supposed to be the shape of the slip peak. But how exactly nobody knows. Stuff like relaxation length, speed sensitivety? Nope. Not that I would know even if I had the exact equations. I don't know much about tires.

I think I'll be doing one mre patch for the car. It doesn't seem to be particularly popular so doing the lods is probably waste of time. Once I fix the last issues (and get proper sound for the car) I think I move to lx8gtr.
That still didn't answered my question :P Any rFactorish fake effects through the wheel? Cause honestly this is the best 'feedback' car in the game maybe, together with E30.. I wouldn't mind if these are the final physics, cause it's amazing. I would give it some more love though, cause believe me this is a gem, and people will realise it.
And as much as my opinion doesn't matter to you, i would hate if you wasted your talent and months on a fake car. Yes it's the 'mythical' LX8gtr, but i had a fare share of fake cars in my sim career Smile

Anyway, had a blast tonight on Glava Zete, crazy combo, great stuff.

Something is off for me on your car. It's like you can see the weight moving around but it's not actually there. Feels like there's zero rotational inertia. It's a 1500 kg car with a quite soft suspension, I shouldn't be able to get into a corner with massive oversteer and correct it instantly like it was nothing before I even get to the apex. No tank slapping, nothing, just boom back on rails as I wish, then back in oversteer if I want to, then not, all in the same corner.

Certainly is fun to drive...It's a big boat floating around on its springs but rotates like a lotus exos at the same time. If it's like that in real life I want one !
I don't think there are any hidden driving aids in the car physics files, boris. I've turned off everything I have found.

I get what you say phil. I don't know what it is that makes the car almost tankslapper free. How it is so effortless to drive out of corners. How it stops so well. I get it there is something wrong with how well the car rotates. The inertias are there and they are big. It has mass. Mental front weight distribution. Huge wide tires all around. Relatively neutral aero in the sense the car basically makes 0 lift. But it has lift on front axle and downforce in the rear. And high cog of pretty much half metres. 0.48m Iirc.

TOTALMASS=1450
INERTIA=2.4,1.5,5.2

The way inertias work in ac is that you just try to create a box that matches the dimensions the car. Then make the box longer if the cog is far away from the geometric center. For example a 4 metre long porsche would have inertia of something like x,y,4.5 meaning its yaw (and pitch) inertia is bigger than the car dimensions would produce. The jag length is 4.8metres. The inertia for the box is 5.2. I have not calculated the reverse of the 3 dimensional box kunos uses so I could use the inertias I've calculated for the jag. Maybe I should do that. But I don't think the problem is there. The tires have inertias and weight as well. Those are probably the heaviest parts in any ac apart from the race truck.

I'm thinking the dampers need more work. But also in the tires there could be something that makes the super wide tires handle too well. But I don't know what it is. The tires are not easier than the kunos tires. The xmu, load sensitiveness, camber gains. All those are very close to the 312t tires that I used as a base. Same make (dunlop), same construction (biasply) and same era. I've tried 90s slicks. The car handles even better. I tried the grpA tires from m3. Handles really really well.. On the first version of the car I made a mix of those 3. I did try contacting the historix guys too but their response was pretty much they don't want the car (I basically offered the model in exchange for help with the tires). I tried contacting the historix physics guy but he did not respond.

I won't just start changing things randomly to make the car drive harder. I want to understand what is wrong. This is the best I can at the moment.
I don't know is it a good or bad thing that i only judge the cars on how they feel, cause, having only the karting experience and driving around town in Golf MKII, i would never notice there is no tank slapping going on. I mean i did noticed it, but it just feels so good under the hands i never thought "wait that's so unrealistic".
I just feel a big powerfull boat and what every tire is doing..
It's a fun car, but there's something about it I can't put my finger on, apart from having quite a bit of grip. I struggled to get it sideways at corner exits with throttle only. I suppose that could simply be the long gearing.

Anywho, the main issue I have with is that it seems to "wonder" quite a bit on straights and sometimes in corner exits. In the latter case I've straightened up the steering a second or two ago, have no oversteer, but the rear keeps rotating a bit which causes a loose feeling in the steering. In the former case it's a matter of driving in what I believe to be a fairly straight line, but find that it wants to go left or right.

That issue could easily have something to do with using mouse steering although it's the only car it happens with. I think there was a bit of that in one of the early Cobra releases too, now that I think of it.

Some time back I had the same issue with my own mod car, it turned out to be the tyres/unsprung weight, eventually I was able to tune it out.

If someone wants to have a go, https://www.mediafire.com/?uyz3mmimdcmzbx3

No need to point out that the model and sounds are borrowed
Quote from Hyperactive :
The way inertias work in ac is that you just try to create a box that matches the dimensions the car. Then make the box longer if the cog is far away from the geometric center. For example a 4 metre long porsche would have inertia of something like x,y,4.5 meaning its yaw (and pitch) inertia is bigger than the car dimensions would produce. The jag length is 4.8metres. The inertia for the box is 5.2. I have not calculated the reverse of the 3 dimensional box kunos uses so I could use the inertias I've calculated for the jag. Maybe I should do that. But I don't think the problem is there. The tires have inertias and weight as well. Those are probably the heaviest parts in any ac apart from the race truck.

In real life you can have two cars both with mass CG right at the geometric center but with very different rotational inertias. Has to do with how far every unit of weight is from the mass CG. Still I think the box method is good. Do you have the bmw e92 box length?

Quote from Hyperactive :I'm thinking the dampers need more work. But also in the tires there could be something that makes the super wide tires handle too well. But I don't know what it is. The tires are not easier than the kunos tires. The xmu, load sensitiveness, camber gains. All those are very close to the 312t tires that I used as a base. Same make (dunlop), same construction (biasply) and same era. I've tried 90s slicks. The car handles even better. I tried the grpA tires from m3. Handles really really well.. On the first version of the car I made a mix of those 3.

When you tried 90s slicks and grpA where they of normal width or you made them super wide as well?

Quote from Hyperactive :I won't just start changing things randomly to make the car drive harder. I want to understand what is wrong. This is the best I can at the moment

Pretty sure you'll figure it out.
Quote from NotAnIllusion :Some time back I had the same issue with my own mod car, it turned out to be the tyres/unsprung weight, eventually I was able to tune it out.

If someone wants to have a go, https://www.mediafire.com/?uyz3mmimdcmzbx3

No need to point out that the model and sounds are borrowed

Now that was good fun....just took it around Brands Hatch, and loved it. Steering I think could do with being a little more responsive, to much turning circle??

You say you borrowed the model, I didn't know this Mod was out

Regards

Fordie
Quote from Fordman :
Steering I think could do with being a little more responsive, to much turning circle??

Turning circle is identical to the URD C6R, if that car is more responsive, it's likely to be a complex relation between geometries, dampers and tyres. I don't have an FFB wheel so it's impossible for me to tune. Someone else could try to tweak the various values of course, e.g. increase FFMULT or change STEER_RATIO and see what happens.


; In car.ini
[CONTROLS]
FFMULT=1.20 ; Force Feedback power multiplayer
STEER_ASSIST=0.55 ; Variable steer assist, speed relative
STEER_LOCK=320 ; Real car's steer lock from center to right
STEER_RATIO=17.1 ; Steer ratio
LINEAR_STEER_ROD_RATIO=0.00271

Quote :You say you borrowed the model, I didn't know this Mod was out

The model was ripped from Forza by some Russians. Their "mod" is a payware scam: ripped model with URD C6R physics (literally, not changed at all). Mine is the model from that with Cobra sounds and 98% reworked physics, using real V8SC data where possible, tyres are also original.
Obviously can never be "released".
Quote from CardsetCrazy :http://www.assettocorsa.net/lamborghini-automobili-official-license/

Lamborghini is coming!

Aventador
Huracan GT3
Huracan LP620-2 Super Trofeo
Miura SV
Countach
Veneno
Asterion
Gallardo GT3
Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera

Bloody good news Big grin . Never been a fan of Lambrghini, but it may change Big grin
Like the Nissan GTR (I do not like it), when AC will provide them, I am sure I will be interested by those "4wd" beasts


Quote from kars19 :"Getting real close to a 1.0 version. (actually, it could be, but we'll likely find a thing or two, so I'm leaving myself a little head room until 1.0)"(c)Pierre-André Leclair
...
Gp circuit looks even better then KS version Big grin more trackside objects
..ok maybe not, but not far off

=> if Eric put this in LFS, I take a year off Big grin
Quote from CardsetCrazy :http://www.assettocorsa.net/lamborghini-automobili-official-license/

Lamborghini is coming!

Aventador
Huracan GT3
Huracan LP620-2 Super Trofeo
Miura SV
Countach
Veneno
Asterion
Gallardo GT3
Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera

oh my
Hyperactive I think your lateral/longitudinal grip ratio is too high. I tried to lower the DY0 and the car felt more like it should IMO. It also helped with the wandering while going straight.
Quote from PhilS13 :Do you have the bmw e92 box length?

nope

Quote from PhilS13 :When you tried 90s slicks and grpA where they of normal width or you made them super wide as well?

Wide. 345 front, 365 rear! (yolo) Maybe I should try just making the tires skinny to see what it does to the car.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Anywho, the main issue I have with is that it seems to "wonder" quite a bit on straights and sometimes in corner exits. In the latter case I've straightened up the steering a second or two ago, have no oversteer, but the rear keeps rotating a bit which causes a loose feeling in the steering. In the former case it's a matter of driving in what I believe to be a fairly straight line, but find that it wants to go left or right.

Maybe this is a wheel issue because for me I don't really notice any wandering. Some people are saying it does it but personally I only seem to notice it when I drive with keyboard (testing stuff) or with a wheel braking into a corner where it does get a bit squirrelly. But with a keyboard I notice the car has a tendency to keep its rotation. Like if you make a turn on the straight the car kinda keeps going to that direction. But I don't notice it with wheel (fanatec 911 tbo s).

Quote from NotAnIllusion :That issue could easily have something to do with using mouse steering although it's the only car it happens with. I think there was a bit of that in one of the early Cobra releases too, now that I think of it.

Hmm, maybe I should tripple check the steering arms. Does the problem go away with more toe-in? Sinbad also mentioned light feeling in the center.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :Some time back I had the same issue with my own mod car, it turned out to be the tyres/unsprung weight, eventually I was able to tune it out.

If someone wants to have a go, https://www.mediafire.com/?uyz3mmimdcmzbx3

No need to point out that the model and sounds are borrowed

The model and sounds are borrowed. Smile

I'll take a look. What was wrong? Too little unsprung weight, tires..?
Quote from PhilS13 :Hyperactive I think your lateral/longitudinal grip ratio is too high. I tried to lower the DY0 and the car felt more like it should IMO. It also helped with the wandering while going straight.

Those peak values come from my only source of info about the tires. Historix mod. Comparable tires (3.0 csl) which raced same times (in the same races even: http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/p%201977%20Zandvoort.html). The csl in rf had something like 1.5lat, 1.3long.

Kunos Simulazioni - Assetto Corsa
(8874 posts, started )
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