Quote from deggis :

Few weeks (or maybe a month) ago Champ Cars were racing on some track that was build partly on an old airfield or something... what track was that?

ps. I'm not seeing that track as an future F1 track, just curious because I don't remember the track name.

West Edmonton GP @ JAGFlo speedway. Built on City Centre Airport.

My condolences and sympathy to all that knew him.
May he live forever in your hearts and memories, and may those that have gone before him comfort him and make him welcome among them, so that he may find peace and happiness, and so that he may do the same for those that come after him.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Looking at it from network traffic's POV it would still be cheaper ITO BW to download a 100 Mb LFSTV client (or the couple of megs for the viewer that uses existing LFS files) and then multicast/broadcast the LFS data instead of the actual video.

Like I said before, network demand (bandwidth) for live coverage is not an issue... Just look at the amount of data you are able to download per hour right now, and compare it to what you could download 3 to 5 years ago. Now step forward another 3 to 5 years (S3 should be finished sometime in the next 5 years, right?). Add to that the fact that internet TV is popping up allowing you to watch digital TV in full frames using the current available bandwidth and you'll understand why streaming an LFS video will not be a problem at all for most, if not all, potential viewers. Remember, you're mostly watching the race live, and as such won't even notice the amount of data you're sucking in. It will even allow you to do other stuff on your PC (while slowing down the internet connection a bit more), while LFSTV will seriously tax your PC demanding it be dedicated to viewing to a large degree, while leaving your internet connection running at near max speed.
As for downloading. Downloads have always been and will always be done using videostreams rather than in-game data, simply because video editing software gives you more artistic freedom than any LFS based application will ever be able to provide.

Quote from The General Lee :

Even if it does cost...Maybe you can sell it to leagues....£10 a year.

20 Leagues @ £10 pa = £200.

This can also be the little seed of the oak tree that will REALLY put LFS on the map, and I mean on the map...as famous at BTCC, WTC etc.

You have it watched over the internet, and say...we get 32,000 viewers per race (random number that is reasable) one driver then e-mail a company, lets say www.blahdvd.com says, we get 32,000 viewers a race, if I plaster my car in BlahDVD.com you pay me say..£100 a race?

They agree, a few other drivers do it, earn cash.

Then a team e-mails a company, say FedEx, says, we enter 4 cars into a championship, we get 32,000 viewers a race, over 10 races etc etc. you pay us £500 a race, and we put FedEx over all our cars. Then teams have enough money to buy drivers from other teams and before you know it you ahve your own mini-F1 series. Obviously, this is a long shot...but iy could happen

At the moment (and at the state LFS currently is in) that scenario is very wishful thinking. However, it is a scenario we ultimately should be looking for. It won't ever be BTCC or WTC size, but big official leagues with a lot of money have been done before, and internet broadcast coverage has been huge (well over 50000 viewers per race for a $300000 NR2003S league). In fact, when you check on the iRacing business plans, that's exactly the kind of scenario they're building their simulator for. If LFS is ready when iRacing launches a less than perfect product then LFS could take over that niche of the market and become the ultimate simulator used for really big things...

Quote from SamH :

Let's carry it on here.. people who want to back-track can follow the link to the other conversation. If that causes the other thread to get re-ignited, I might use my "special magical powers" to merge the threads into one later

Multicast sounds yummy. If I understand your explanation right, it solves the problem with the internet that makes video transmission so difficult in comparison with a TV transmitter. That'll break the back of that problem for sure! Yeeharr!

Yes, that was the whole intention of multicast back in the day they feared their big 2 inch thick copper cables would get stuffed with (2 inch thick) bits and bytes that got sent to multiple PCs using unicast.

The one problem with multicast now is that it will not work on local endpoints at customers... ie. your ISP still won't route multicast packets to the internet. Most of the rest is set to go when needed, but you'd still need an internet endpoint capable of broadcasting multicast streams (aka a streamserver). It was decided that, with the introduction of IPv6 and ever increasing bandwidth demands, multicast be phased back into general use on the internet. It may be a few years, but then, so will LFS be a few years until it's finished.

Quote :

I don't think Scawen's ever given any positive or negative indications with regard to LFSTV directly. I remember seeing a post made by someone I've always considered to be "in the know", "finger on the pulse" etc, which suggested that it was a future consideration.. but I've no idea if it ever came to him from Scawen, or it was his own best guess. I also don't know if it's an S2 or S3 "thang", if it's a "thang" at all.

Yeah, I think that was way back on RSC that he posted something about a proxy system. I remember Scawen posting something about that subject as well.

Quote :

Yep.. it's a fair criticism. But consider these points...

The graphics would be superior if all the textures, tracks and car models were local to the player. You could run LFSTV at 1600x1200 resolution, and it would be scrumptious quality.. better than HDTV progressive scan. If your monitor could do it, you could beat interlaced scan resolution.

An hour-long race would be a pretty big download, regardless of the codec used to compress the image.. to download a player, and then stream the race data would likely be a much smaller download, even for a one-off view. The disadvantage is the preparatory download, to get the viewer. There's something really rather kick-ass about clicking and streaming instantly. Once you've got the viewer though, bandwidth usage is extremely economical.

Oh yes, I've considered those points, and I'm all for this application. Having one doesn't mean we can't have the other though. In fact... LFS-TV could be used to create a multicast videostream, so they can operate at the same time too.

Download sizes, however, are becoming less of a factor with the increasing bandwidth regular internet usage requires. Certainly the amount of time it takes to download a movie versus downloading a replay is hands down a win for the replay. That doesn't keep people from creating videos right this moment and hosting them somewhere for us to download. Ranging in size from 10 second examples of 1MB to full league races edited to have graphics (TV graphics) in them that are up to CD size, and we download them. Unless LFSTV becomes not only a proxy for the actual LFS stream of in-game data but also a fully working video-editing suite which allows you to create all of the fancy stuff Adobe Premiere and After Effects is able to create, regular video will always be in some kind of demand.

Which brings us to the other use... Live coverage. Needed bandwidth wise LFSTV will win that one easy. It has better graphics, uses the actual in-game data, etc. There is still one slight downside to it. You need the LFSTV player to watch, and you need to download all the textures used in the game (and possibly add-on textures, extra tracks if ever) to use it. Auto download will work but it will increase bandwidth slightly. Using videostreaming, one only has to input the url into Media Player and it starts playing. Using WMV streams reaches people not currently familliar with LFS, while LFSTV I fear will always be reserved for people who already know LFS. The amount of time it takes to watch the live coverage doesn't change between LFSTV and videostreams. An hour's worth of racing will take an hour to download in LFSTV and in Mediaplayer it will take just as long. The only difference will be in the amount of data you transferred in that time. For most people this will no longer be a major concern by the time either tool will be finished.


I just realised we agree... Could've saved me a lot of typing by just saying yes

Quote from Funnybear :

I'm going with impotent . . .

I did read that Geologists are argueing that any large bodies founs out by pluto and beyond should not be called plutons(I think) because Plutons are a geological formation made by lava solidifying under ground and rising to the surface. So you could theoretically have plutons on a pluton...

Geologists Vs Astronimers . . No thats a naked greco roman moment I would pay to see . . .

From small to huge:

Meteoroids (rocks of less than 10 meters in diameter)
Asteroids or planetoids (rocks that are larger than meteoroids but smaller than planets and do not have a gravitational force of their own)
Plutoids (rocks that are larger than Asteroids and do create their own gravitational force)

There... I solved their problem in all of 10 seconds... Now where's my millions of dollars, you basterds.

Quote from ajp71 :

Would be nice but I don't think it's possible with the current LFS policy of only connecting when you tell it to.

wouldn't actually typing in '/' 'w' ' ' 'w' 'r' be more like telling LFS to connect than clicking the button that says 'connect'?

Quote from SamH :

It's been discussed quite a bit in the past, and I don't think the idea is lost on the powers that be. A really good discussion on the subject happened here.

Bandwidth considerations dictate that streaming mpeg style content is extremely heavy on bandwidth. If anyone were to broadcast a race's-worth of video to a "mass" audience, in a live event, the bandwidth required would be colossal. It might work if there were a relay system, where a server had say 6 concurrent streams, and one of those was given over to relaying to the next server in the chain, streaming 6 concurrent streams, relaying one of them to the next server in the....

IPv4 and IPv6 have such a relaying system (well a better actually), it's called multicast (unlike the wrong definition of unicast in the thread you mentioned). Every 'viewer' is given a special IP address from a range of addresses that are grouped together into another single IP address. Each router in between the two endpoints (viewer, and broadcaster) creates a multicast group and combines the IP addresses into a single one at the other end of its connection. The result is that the broadcaster needs to send his stream to only 1 IP address. This single IP address is converted into more than one IP address at the first point of convergence (ie, where multiple routes to 'viewers' occur) and the stream is sent to each of those new multicast IPs only once until it reaches the next point of convergence, where they get split up again, etc, etc, until a packet reaches a 'viewer'.
The difference between multicast and regular (unicast) connections is that a unicast connection is 1:1, ie. it sends each packet to one single destination, and multicast is 1:M, ie. it sends each packet to an infinite number of destinations. Broadcast would be overkill since it would send each packet to all possible destinations (and for very obvious reasons is not routed at all (try sending a packet to IP 255.255.255.255 every 0.000000001 seconds and you'll kill the internet).

Multicast was disabled for security reasons in the early years of the internet, but with the arrival of IPv6 it's getting turned back on on all newer equipment by default.

Quote :

The superior concept is LFSTV, which has various interpretations, but the one I like most is a dedicated replaying/spectating client which receives InSim data from the race, and also camera position/focus information from the LFSTV "director". An audio/commentary stream, which is much less bandwidth-intense than video, completes the service. Because it's not transmitting video, but instead just positional/directional/angular/etc data, it's much less burden on bandwidth. The LFSTV resolution is of course whatever you make your client window size. If needed, a relay system/service can also be incorporated, greatly increasing the number of possible viewers.

Not superior... Completely different... It's a good concept, but it is limited to supplying people that use special software (this viewer), which is basically my only point of criticism on this concept.

Quote :

There's many different permutations.. those are just the aspects I like the most, from the proposals/suggestions I've picked up on. The above thread is well worth a good read

Yeah, and possibly worth reviving (or we could just continue here). If we could only get some word of some dev (not naming names, Scawen, honest ) on his views on the matter.

Last edited by TagForce, Fri, 1 Sep 2006 23:11.

Quote from Jakg :

did this the other day, although my advice is that once you get right behind the other person, overtake the same way the other person did, time it right, and you draft someone going a bit faster, and that slingshots you past VERY fast, although i got in the middle and got crushed last time i tried it!

Ahhh, yes, when you have the opportunity to get behind the other drafter in time, do that. If not (because you will be going faster and are going to clip his rear quarterpanel) just go around the other side, or in between if there's room. Best example of this will always be the Hakkinen overtaking manouvre on Schumacher in Spa...

The "you're in the middle 3-wide" passes are the most gratifying, though, especially when you're 3 wide for what seems like forever.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Okay, I'm hearing rumors of Pluto getting planetary status back, but finding nothing on the subject, anyone heard anything about this?

Like I said before:

Quote from TagForce :

As for the IAU declaring pluto no longer a planet... Nobody in the actual astronomical world takes them seriously anymore. They spent 2 years discussing this one issue, and finally come up with a solution... Pluto and 3 more rocks will be classified as planets. 2 weeks later, they decide that pluto no longer IS a planet... Every decision they make is reversed within a month.

Wouldn't surprise me at all... They really are a bunch of stupid kids who think they are important.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Some obvious ones...

Fake a move to the inside and outbrake round the outside (if your brave)

My favorite move... Get them where they least expect it... Also a nice one is when you just KNOW they expect a switchback and hug the inside line, and you just go around the outside and get alongside them.

Quote :

Turn 1, most cars will try and go for the inside line, if your lucky you can outbrake 5-10 cars on the outside and cut in. I had an old replay where i started 23rd and ended up in 2nd place after t1 because i went round the outside and someone had spun on the inside line.

I like to do that as well, depending on my position after the first 200 yards... If I find myself incredibly well positioned for an inside divebomb without risk I'll go for that, otherwise I'll just go around them all.

Quote :

On tracks where overtaking is hard run low downforce and pick people off on the straights. Then hug the inside lines, good on fern bay or south city.

This won't work too often... But is good on short races... If you wanna hug the inside with low downforce people will notice you being slow and perform the first 2 tips on you.

Quote :

Look several cars ahead, never focus on the back of the car right infront of you. I gain lots of places early on by spotting gaps and spun cars early and being able to react and find the best way past.

In addition to that, when you're the rear car in a multicar draft, don't follow the car in front of you when he makes the pass... Just floor it when he gets out and draft the front car, you'll pick up more speed in shorter time and slingshot passed both of them (especially on BL1 is a perfect way to take 2 positions in less than 5 seconds).

Quote :

all i can think of for now

Well, I can think of one other tip that's been mentioned a lot before, but is vitally important... Patience is the key. ALWAYS wait for your chance and give up an attempt when you're not 100% absolutely sure you are going to pull it off. Except of course in the final turn of the final lap, you're going to have to make that one absolutely stunning move to take the car in front of you and receive all the cheers and fame that come with being victorious. Either that, or end up in the hospital, but nobody can ever say you didn't try.

Quote from Scawen :

I suggest you run a memory checker, and a CPU checker thing. Sorry I can't advise where to find the software.

http://www.google.nl/search?hl ... G=Google+zoeken&meta=



(fifth link is actually useful)

Edit:
On a side note, Scawen, I have a theory about how to solve these problems you don't want to hear, and should be in the improvement suggestions forum.
It involves not using physics for replays.

Last edited by TagForce, Fri, 1 Sep 2006 18:33. Reason : just for the heck of it.

Quote from hrtburnout :

South City is ook leuk, maar wel wat moeilijk voor beginners.

Daarentegen is een perfecte full lock drift door de chicane op Classic Rev een moment waarbij je je ook echt compleet drift king voelt.

(for non-dutch readers, I said that performing a perfect full lock drift through the SO classic rev chicane combo makes you feel like the ultimate drift king)

Quote from spankmeyer :

...there's no reason to live! Where's my kayak?!

Please don't bring this thread back on-topic!

Transformers, and M.A.S.K.!

I'm 30 years old now, and I still have those damn toys stashed around here some place just in case I ever find a woman who deems me worthy enough to father her children.

These days I'm more into CG movies like Final Fantasy, and anime, of which for some strange reason I find Princess Mononoke the best to date.

YaY... She's back! Keep her in, keep her in... She rocks!
Who's gunna play her in the movie?

Quote from Scrabby :

well i don't really feel like for waiting 7 months until a "big patch" and maybe a new car, there is no race game were they don't use mods or is moddable sow why not LFS?

There's no race game that's not finished and out there... Well... Actually there's no race game that's finished and out there, but they just stop developing it. LFS is still under development, and as such allowing you to mod would be stupid because everything in the game might change at one point rendering the modded items useless. As for extra cars, specifically... We have plenty cars at the moment. We could use some extra cars, but only if there are specific locations for those cars (short oval with a NASCAR for instance). They will come, me thinks. At the moment, the cars we have are fine for the tracks we have.

Sue them! (or better yet, slip them one of your stories, wait till they make it into a movie, and then sue them for even more money).

Now what the heck does swing the cat mean (other than catching the neighbour's cat steeling fish from your pond, and subsequently tailswinging it back over the fence (and 3 extra for good measure))?

Quote from Funnybear :

Ok. I get one (The kraken, which was more just topical than actually a reference. But what was the other?)

In your first short story... "She's gunna have your gut's for garters"...
(quote from the movie: "If anyone as much as thinks about 'Parley', I'm gonna have your guts for garters")
It's quite possibly just my obsessive PotC fandom making me notice any small reference to those movies, though.

Quote from SamH :

If Friday's doesn't fix it, I'll call and book THREE consecutive engineers

Why not have them all over at once? That way they can have a meeting about the problem, tell your TV to stop fooling around, have a beer with eachother while waiting for your TV to think about that option (get them beer!), try to bribe it with their combined wallets, and when all else fails have a jolly good time playing dodgeball with it.

BTW: I could tell you all about my day, but it's top secret. National security stuff... Either that, or very very very boring.

Damnit, you're good!

Doesn't this one remind you of something?
(looking forward to the blog if it ever happens)

EDIT: Did you see Pirates of the Caribbean? There's a blatant reference to PotC in 2 of your stories, so just wonderin' if that was intentional.

Last edited by TagForce, Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:26.

Quote from XCNuse :

i dont want to land up with a game such as rFactor where people are using 5+ gigs on 1 game

Have you checked your LFS folder lately?
Just don't change anything in the default settings, and play for 6 months on a nightly basis (say an hour 2 a night)... My folder was 4.2GB just from replays and downloaded carskins...

Quote from JohnPenn :

and the one with lots and lots of corners.

Zandvoort? :-P

The tracks in LFS are outstanding, although I'd change some corners here and there... The real challenge now is in creating different kinds of tracks.. A dense forest track, a sea-side dune track, a very fast desert track, and a very long mountainous track.

Quote from Funnybear :

Awww. Head hurts. Need a bit of recovery time. . . Got the internal Balaclava on and everything is a but fuzzy round the edges . . .

You gonna be alright? Take yer time, m8...

Quote from Funnybear :

Naked.

There is a story there certainly. But prehaps I need to practice what I preach. Discresion surely is the better part of valour here as I am v drunk. A little stoned and need to find a handy asteroid to tether my barge to until I have slept this off.

It is too good a story too mess up through a drunken retelling . . . . .

You sobered up yet? Need a glass of water?