*big-bump*

I had been curious for a while about GPL and other licenses, and as I'm *probably* going to finally start an insim project I'd like to ask some questions that come to my mind.

• Would it be possible to write commercial applications based on insim? I mean, even if I write all the code myself, after all I'm using insim, which is a part of LFS, which is licensed by Scavier. Could I make a commercial insim application and make money selling it to server admins without any permisson from LFS developers?
  

• Something similar with websites. Let's say I build up an entire LFS related website. For this website I use PHP linking to pubstats and also insim applications. This website I run it on my own, I'm not going to 'sell' it to anyone. Do I have to release the source code used if use a GPL licensed library for either the pubstats or insim part? What about if I charge people for using my web (I'm selling a service through that web, not actually selling the web itself as an application)?
  

These are just things that come to my mind and that I'd like to understand about software licenses. I'm not actually thinking about doing something to make money from, but even if I just make a free of charge insim application or website maybe I won't feel like releasing the source code.

Quote from Scawen :

Not a bug. That change was made some patches back. It was so you can sort of get what you ask for when you press a key. Before, it could be confusing, pressing things and nothing appearing. So now it tries to do the necessary switching off of other features that would prevent you seeing what you requested by your key press.

Related to this, in hotlapping mode, if you go into shift+U and then press shift+P to go to the garage, the car enters the garage but you remain in the track as an spectator with the message "no car on track". You hace to press shift+P again to enter the garage yourself. I guess this is not a new behaviour. Another thing is the "pause" message persisting into the garage if you press shift+P while you are on pause.

Quote from wsinda :

I agree that the timelines should be improved. But IMHO they should be placed early (halfway the straight or a bit sooner), so you have some time to inspect the split time before you prepare for the next turn.

Another problem is that the reverse config uses the same timelines. For instance, on SO2 (Sprint 1) there is a timeline at the start of the flyover. That's fine, but in the reverse direction it's at the same spot (= close to the braking point). I've often missed a turn because I was still looking at the split time.

You are totally right. So right in the middle of straight sections would be a good place.

In fact I thought about this for the first time in the combo I explained in my example: RB4 at BL2R. In BL2 you have the checkpoint right after a corner, which may be allright, but in BL2R I start braking before reaching it and I started braking too late without realizing that I was missing the proper line into the corner just because that way I got a better first split.

Suggestion: Add readme/instructions file into the zip

EDIT: I spawn at the pits and can't find a way to get out. Is something going wrong or am I just plain blind to not see the exit? Maybe it's because I'm with patch Y30?

AUTO-ANSWER: I found the problem. I had it to 15 min qualifying in single player mode. When I load the external client the number of laps is automatically changed to 1 but the qualifying time remains, and when you enter the server you start from a garage. So, you have to set it to no qualifying in order to start in the right place.

EDIT2: When you pause the game the timer won't stop.

EDIT3: That was fun! A bit easy imo. I did a first run just to check the delivery spots, and in my first attempt using mouse (my wheel is packed right now) I completed it with 3 minutes left. My clutch got pretty hot though 4:06 minutes left in the third attempt (in the second I totally burnt the clutch XD)

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01.

Quote from MrPDR :

I am rly upset because i just used i think my last 2 unlocks im not sure, going TO y30 and seeing 34 servers (makes it almost pointless) and going BAK to Y24 and using another unlock, just to be on other servers with my friends
Im not using it, if it was compatible, or all servers went to Y30 then yeah.

other than that see ya when patch Y100000000000000 comes out ...

This is a test patch and you should read the release notes in the first post before installing it. It says clearly that it is an incompatible patch, and that an unlock is needed. And patch Z is coming next week.

¿BUG?:
=====

In hotlapping, if you use shift+P while being on pause, the "pause" message keeps blinking in the garage screen.

Hi, I have a suggestion that is not listed in the big suggestions thread.

I've noticed that in some tracks the checkpoints are placed too close to corners, sometimes even being in a place that is within the braking zone of that corner. This misleads to 'deceiving' split times, depending on the racing line you take and how you choose to brake and turn into that specific corner.

For example, in BL2R using the RB4 the checkpoint is right at the beginning of the braking zone of an asphalt-to-dirt corner. There are multiple valid lines for that corner, and depending on your timing hitting the brakes you'll get a split time or another. Of course, if your braking is late you'll have a better split time, thus thinking you are doing well, but probably braking so late the only thing you get is a bad cornering line, ruining your global time.

This happens in more combos, and those checkpoints lead to misjudging how well you are actually doing, and sometimes they create a bad habit on people as they get used to drive to get the best posible split time, but they don't realize that they are gaining time entering the corner, but they are losing more time exiting that same corner.

Checkpoints should be placed at maximun speed points at straights, a little before braking points, just like speed traps. Those are the best places to produce the *best* split times, in the sense that you can compare each sector split time with other drivers' without individual driving lines affecting them.

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:15.

Quote from MikeB :

Some new things you will be able to do:

• Split a replay starting few seconds befor a BODY_DAMAGE event to see the crash again
  

I don't know how this is going to work, but if all damage events are going to be showing in a drop list or similar it should possible to disable damage events as in some combinations there are damage events every single lap. For example with the BF1 your suspensions usually get damaged every 2 or 3 corners, and that would be a lot of damage events for a 30 laps race.

PS: I agree that mpredit is still a great tool to use in conjunction with LFS replay controls.

Found a litlle thing:

- When watching a replay (at least mpr) you can't use shift+W to restore sound (I have to do this when I change from speakers to USB headphones and just realized that it doesn't work in replay mode). You have to go to any other mode (multiplayer, single player or hotlapping) to do it.

Will there be a LFS-Stats version in which you don't need to play the mpr replay in-game? Like you just select the mpr file and the program does all the parsing without needing LFS at all. A complete third party application. There's mpredit that already parses mpr files, so it *can* be done

Great, thanks a lot to both of you guys. I was guessing it would be some kind of IP/port memory with a timer as you just confirmed

Quote from the_angry_angel :

In a very basic nutshell when you start playing or listing servers your client connects out, which gets noted in the NAT database. Any further communication is then allowed back in which corresponds to this database. This is standard NAT behaviour. Since the server doesn't initiate any inbound connection first any inbound firewall isn't likely to affect this.

In short because your PC is connecting out first, the inbound firewall is irrelevant (in this instance - in others, more sophisticated firewall solutions can differ).

The "random port choosing" is also a design feature in IP communication. Whenever you connect to something you will get a known IP and port to connect to. This is why there are standard port numbers for certain services - such as DNS, HTTP, HTTP over SSL, SMTP, etc. - one end needs to initiate the connection first. However, the other end obviously needs a way of communicating back. A random, unused, port (larger than 1024) is chosen by your client and your IP and that port number is used by the other end to talk back to you.

You might benefit from learning a little more about general networking if you're interested in what's going on under the hood.

I'd love to have time to learn these things in depth.

Thanks for the quick answer. I have a question though. I'm alright with everything you explained, but... I'm a bit confused about the UDP part. Since TCP is a connection oriented protocol there's a conversation between the client and the server, and so that conversation has a beginning and an end. But UDP is not connection oriented and it's just like throwing packets to an IP/port hoping they will arrive. So, even if I'm the one that first sends an out-going UDP packet, how does the NAT mechanism know when all the UDP sending/receiving "has finished" so it won't allow further incoming UDP packets from that temporarily accepted IP/port?

I know this is completely unrelated to LFS in any way now, but I'd really appreciate it if you could answer

This is actually a question out of curiosity, I was just wondering why LFS' TCP and UDP packets reach my machine when supposedly the router firewall should be blocking non default ports for incoming packets.

I've analysed the TCP and UDP traffic generated when a connect and disconnect to a LFS server and the TCP and UDP ports used seem to be chosen randomly.

My modem/router is in a multiport configuration and it links my home LAN to the Internet, so I have to use port forwarding if I want any non default port to be available for my private LAN IP.

So my question is: How do LFS packets sent by servers reach my machine? I guess it has something to do with NAT. Maybe LFS servers are sending packets to ports that are usually open by deafult, and my router changes them while performing NAT and that is why they appear as "random" to me.

I hope this is clear and someone can give me the answer

Quote from Scawen :

Hmm, I'm a bit confused by your first sentence.

Please can you give a step by step guide of a simple way to produce the bug?

Damn, this is what happens with multilingual menus

We have "single player", "multiplayer" and "hotlapping". If you go to the drag strip in any of the single player modes (single player or hotlapping, doesn't matter which one), and then you go to hotlapping mode to any other track (not the drag strip), then you have starting lights in your hotlapping session.

Step by setp:

• Go to hotlapping -> choose any car and the 2 lane drag strip and enter the track.
  
• Go back to track selection screen and choose another track. When you enter the track you have starting lights.

or

• Go to "single player" mode (the one where you can race against IAs offline). Choose the 2 lane drag strip and enter the track.
  
• Go back to the main menu -> hotlapping -> any track (not the drag strip). You have starting lights too.

If you go back all the way to the main menu and then again to hotlapping mode then you won't have the starting lights anymore, but if you just go back "one level" to the track selection screen (still being in hotlapping mode) and choose another track they will still be there.

EDITED:

I found a bug in Y20:

Whenever you go to the drag strip either in one player or hotlapping mode, and then you go to hotlapping to any combination the start lights are activated and you have to wait for them or otherwise you get a +45 seconds penalty. The only way to make them disappear is coming back to the main menu and then going into hotlapping mode again - changing the car or the track won't solve it.

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Mon, 26 May 2008 09:42.

Quote from Scawen :

Changes in Y20 :

Connections / race positions / pedals are visible beside controls

Suggestion:

Before Y19 the mouse pointer would only show during replays or ingame when you had the connections list on screen, but now with Y20 during replays the mouse is visible all the time whenever you move it. So, this made me think that it would be useful if we could use the "positions list" to click on which car we want the focus to be. This would be the same than clicking on the W next to a driver name in the connections list, but using the positions list instead.

To me it would be quite intuitive and very useful, as some of us barely use the connections list during replays because we prefer seeing the race positions list.

Quote from Scawen :

Well, my current plan is this :
...
(plan)
...

Everything looks OK to me. The only thing I would add is something to announce that there are replay controls when you move the mouse to the bottom, so you just don't have to discover that feature by randomly moving the mouse - this is meant for new users. Maybe a chat message generated automatically with "drag mouse to the bottom for replay controls" or something like that.

About F9-F12 controls disappearing:

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Or make it so that the mouse has to move into that area (the timeline) to bring up the replay controls.

That sounds good to me. +1

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Sat, 17 May 2008 08:16.

Quote from Scawen :

OK, thanks for explaining why the connections list needs to be visible during a replay while the mouse is moving. I'll have a look at that.

In addition to the connections list, some of us like to change players using TAB and SHIFT+TAB looking at the race positions shown when the connetions list is off. When the time bar is on you can't see
the positions so although you can change using TAB you don't know who you are focusing as you can't see the name with the little arrow pointing to it.

Actually I don't find it very useful either to hide the F9-F12 graphs when the time bar pops in. Maybe it's just a thing of both things sharing the same location on the screen.

This new patch is great. It's not totally awesome yet as it has to "reload" from the beginning when you want to rewind, but it's very useful indeed

Quote from Victor :

i wonder how useful it really is though. Those forces are fun to watch, but you can't really tell anything from them...

Maybe if you could make some graphs out from that info so we can compare. As you say they are fun to watch, but just 'playing' it doesn't give much valuable info

Quote from Victor :

NOTE (1) - Some hotlaps will not load in the analyser. This is because they don't exist. Now that we have a background RAF exporter, we can also do actual HLVC (HotLap Validity Check) and OOS (Out Of Sync) checks. Since Scawen improved the wall detection for example, some hotlaps have become HLVC invalid and will soon be removed. The same thing goes for OOS checks. A hotlap going OOS is normally due to the use of cheats. This way we can make sure the hotlap charts will remain cheat free. More on this topic later when we will do the actual removing of the invalidated hotlaps.

This means that invalid hotlaps will not be accepted when you try to upload them in the future? I mean, right now some cleaning will be done but in the future it will be done automatically when you upload the lap so it doesn't ever appear in the charts.

Victor kind of replied to my first post here:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=42824

Quote :

NOTE (2) - The setup values controversy.
The idea behind RAF files and this hotlap analyser is to stimulate people to study their driving skills. Because hotlap analysis is now as easy as a couple of clicks, it should become much more attractive and fun to learn how to improve your driving. Part of this is studying basic setup settings. Yes some people regard full suspension values as too much, but it is only half of the full setup, and it is the part that people can learn the most from. Seeing why someone uses a softer or harder suspension on a certain track allows them to better see how suspension works and that it should not be the same for all tracks. These values can also be used in addition with the suspension movement and remaining range graphs in the analyser.
If you really feel that it is a breach of your privacy and do not wish others to learn from your hotlap, then you should not upload your hotlaps to LFS World, or anywhere else for that matter, because these values have been in RAF files ever since the format was created. I don't think we will remove them either.

Suggestions:

1. Two graphs that I find specially useful in LFS Replay Analyser are "Camber" and "Wheel angle". It would be nice to have something similar.
2. To be able to play the lap faster than 1x speed, like in-game replays you could also put 2x and 4x, so it's faster to play longer laps.

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Fri, 9 May 2008 20:02.

Quote from Gekkibi :

Reminds me a thread about "private layouts".

Shouldn't this be in the improvement suggestion -section?

Mmm maybe this should be noted as a suggestion. If someone can move it...

On the other hand, I don't see much resemblance between private layouts and private setups. Well, that they're both private

I've read about setups being encrypted in SPR files so people can't get a hold of them, but if you generate a RAF file you can get some parameters directly using applications like LFS Replay Analyser or simply using an hex editor and a little patience.

With the RAF file you can get gear ratios, all suspension settings, brake settings, and tyre compound.

OK, that's only part of the car setup, but it's a BIG part. I haven't found any post containing an official statement about this, and I don't know if this data in the header is mandatory in order to analyse the rest of the RAF file.

In our community we've come to the extent of deleting HL replays from lfsworld so other teams don't have access to our private setups. Even people who beat WRs won't upload them to avoid espionage.

Will it be possible in the future to have 'full' private setups in spr files? There are a lot of people concerced about this and keeping their private setups safe.

Last edited by MaKaKaZo, Thu, 8 May 2008 20:12.