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JackCY
S2 licensed
I thought that was completely normal. Anyone who played with tweak has seen the brake force limits and other settings limits go nuts. Not surprised it does for regular restriction the opposite way too, seen on GT2s GT3s.
Less power, lower maximum brake force limit, or any other setting limit.
JackCY
S2 licensed
OK so it's a LFS bug. If I limit the FPS in LFS to 100fps it works fine. Tried last S1 version H7 where fps hits 800-1000.
So on any computer with fast graphic card it will have this bug.

I've tried 100fps limit before but IMHO that limit is too low. Especially if someone has a 120Hz or 144Hz monitor.
JackCY
S2 licensed
For me it is the same issue when scrolling up or down, does not matter.

I'm buying a new mouse so I noticed this ASAP when testing and now trying to figure out where is the bug.

I am using scroll wheel for minor controls and I would like to keep it.
Maybe I can hack around it and assign scroll wheel in AHK or something to actual keyboard keys, but I would like LFS to support this without hacks again on Win8.1 64bit and other if there it is an issue as well.

Running in compatibility mode of WinXP did not help.
Last edited by JackCY, .
Scroll wheel not always registered, v0.6F, Win8.1 64bit
JackCY
S2 licensed
Moved LFS to a new PC, direct copy from my old WinXP where everything works fine.

But on a new PC with Win8.1 64bit the scroll wheel in LFS is buggy and does not always register. Sometimes a single scroll is registered sometimes it is not, it is very moody and random.

This was tested with 4 different mice, all behaving the same way, 4 brands and completely different mice. I have one mouse software installed so I will try to get rid of it and try again, but everywhere else mouse scroll works fine it's so far only in LFS.

Scroll is set in windows to 3 lines of scroll.

It does not work as it should even without the mouse software. Again, with any mouse attached, only one mouse at a time, different ports, USB2, USB3, ...

How is LFS reading the mouse input in Win8.1 64bit?
These things has changed as far as I know since XP days and these newer OSs changed the mouse input a bit.
Maybe it's an LFS incompatibility with Win8.1 64bit? Or there is some secret fix for Win8.1 64bit to get mouse working as it should?
Last edited by JackCY, .
JackCY
S2 licensed
Quote from Bean0 :If you right click the .exe and choose 'open archive' you can see all the files it contains. You may or may not require 7zip to be able to do this

Tried but it's not ZIP nor RAR, don't have 7zip here now.

Quote from Flame CZE :The only updated files should be the LFS.exe and language text files, nothing else.

If only but because they rarely are I prefer to do manual path with as you wrote:
Quote :LFS_PATCH_Z25_TO_6F_setup.exe

First thing I notice is messed up car selection. Textures would take more time to notice.

Quote :The best way in my opinion is to run the auto-updater from in-game. Then it just updates the necessary files from 6E to 6F. No need to manually download and run anything. I'm actually not sure why they don't offer a download link for a 6E to 6F patch as well.

Me neither. I removed the restarter some long time ago and made a copy before manual patch. So I can safely roll back what is needed when I know what to copy back. I would not say it's 100% safe that the autoupdate won't overwrite other things as well.

---

Yep 7zip will extract it now, it seems to have turned to some extract any exe thingy.

data\dds\AX_ARROWS.dds
data\dds\AX_BARRIERS.dds
data\dds\AX_CHALKALPHA.dds
data\dds\AX_TYRES.dds
data\pic\AX_ADS1.jpg
data\pic\LFSFLAGS.raw
data\pic\x_CARS.jpg

Don't care about rest of the files I think, mostly language files and other things.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Can you please list what files get overwritten when applying the 0.6F update?
Once again other files, like graphics got overwritten because the installer is not a ZIP but an executable And overwrites custom files.
The list of files updated seems to only blink during installation and is gone, don't want to mess with tracking it again or something. Glad I made a backup because this has become a stable issue with the updates.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Will equal tires be enforced or XFG can freely use unequal tires by using rally tires on a road track?

Personally I would prefer for all tires to be the same on a car, even fixed to a specific compound.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Many games work on WinXP and many people still use it, if not the highest number of computers is still with WinXP.
They work, they are fast and hardly a tie with Win7 in terms of speed. On older machines they are superior and something like Vista or Win7 just slows down the whole computer where as WinXP is lightweight and runs fast.

Games should be able to fall back to DX9 and many do, including craziness like Crysis etc. it's all playable on DX9 graphic cards.

Only thing unplayable now on DX9 is Assetto Corsa that refuses to fall back on DX9 due to their fancy and a little messy graphics and the whole engine.

Please keep support of older versions of DX9, personally I don't need fancy shaders and motion blurs and that's all DX10+ is all about, shaders and minor improvements in batch sizes.

I think more interesting would be Mantle and possibly step away from DX all together.
JackCY
S2 licensed
No formulas, no rally no fun

Option 2: Turbo Trophy Sprint Edition 2014

Then.
JackCY
S2 licensed
you can use so many other and free alternatives to PS, heck you could even do it inside your browser in some online editors

plus the output for skins is just a simple JPG not a little complicated DDS as it is with textures

you already have the sources and idea, so get to it to make it

whether think you can or can't do it, you are right
JackCY
S2 licensed
So why does a sim has driving with keys then?
JackCY
S2 licensed
Quote from Maelstrom :A naive question. By default the simulation settings are on "Gamer" which means lots of help/assistance to the driving. Have you tried the game withou these helps?

Actually setting the game on "gamer " by default is beyond stupid as it give some foods to the haters who can't be bothered looking if there are options somewhere.

Custom, turned everything off like it is in PRO setting +added 100% mechanical damage. Did not turn visual damage on.
I did check all the settings around and read the ini files.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Quote from tristancliffe :I think a DirectX10.0 patch was sort of released over the weekend?

It's a racing sim.

I guess the driver or something is included in DirectX or something.

Can't judge physics with a keyboard. Unless you drive real cars with a keyboard.
Just no.
There are skins and colours. Setups limited to what is vaguely possible on the actual cars. Track configs will be included later.

Turn it off in an .ini file.
Electronic stability control??

Pretty damn brilliantly.
I'm sure the numbers in the setup area will be refined. At the moment, I'm more concerned that some settings are measurements (degrees, millimeters etc) and others are just arbitrary scales (4 out of 6).
Ermmm...
Really? Not tried running it in DOS mode.
Oh no, you can't speed in the pitlane. Destroy the game. But I agree that ABS=off should equal ABS=off, even if the real car has it.
Erm... Slip the clutch some more.
I'm sure it'll be fixed soon enough, but I think most people can drift without needing the clutch.
Well... Too early to be sure exactly, but rFactor is awful. Always has been. Always will be. Unless you're referring to rF2, but I haven't tried that.
It's a beta version really. People who use beta versions are often quite happy fiddling with ini files to find what works without the user interface needing to be designed for every adjustment.
Press + -

Like I said it did not work turning it off and adjusting the ini files.
The steering helpers should be removed for all controllers, when I switch them off then they should be off 100% not that I find later when racing that it still tries to help me which actually has the opposite effect. So instead of sliding the rear and steering in it kills the throttle so I don't spin oh my, it saved my life... really? Remove the artificial helpers. If one wants full throttle it should be full throttle that moment no matter what.

Patch here patch there, it still won't run on anything below DX10. I'm happy with simple graphics, one can see more easily instead of the gloom bloom HDR that I turned off anyway.

It's a racing sim is to be seen, LFS is and it has mouse steering and it works well, unless I drive leagues I have no need for a wheel, happy with mouse and keys.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Tried it and so far do not like it much. It is really a beta version, lots of things is unfinished. Also it only works on DX 10.1 or higher. Setting it to lowest it looks like shiny poo and still doesn't get decent fps.

Mouse is not supported and even when emulating mouse as a joystick it is not possible to have gas and brakes on keys or buttons, only on axis = fail.
NO MOUSE SUPPORT.

BUT YOU GET XBOX360 SUPPORT, think what you want.

Driving on keyboard is quite easy except road cars that under braking handle like a 2CV, feels unrealistic. Some curbs are silly and their physics to me seems screwed up.

Cars have kind of a feel of NFS/GT/rF.

No skins, no colors, limited setups, no track configurations either.

What's worst though is that silly slowdown when you leave track and even worse is that when sliding it changes gas to 75% instead of 100%. Clutch and handbrake do not work either.

How does it handle guys on wheels when driving on the limit?

Setup changes are noticeable but changes of wings by 1 felt rather big changes.
Some cars seem to have infinite grip, which is ok, just depends how real it is and how it handles on the limit. Not driving fast enough means feeling a lot of grip.

When running at low resolutions the GUI is a mess and won't fit there, making certain things in the menu unreachable.

Yes driving with all helpers off and so on and the game still touches gas, brakes, etc. does not even let you speed in pits or turn off pit limiter.
Seems lame.

Hitting it off the ground on 1st gear is more like stalling the car even when I set the 1st gear to fastest possible. Clutch doesn't work so no clutch kicking alá rFactor can't be done.

LFS > rFactor > AC

No idea where iRacing stands haven't tried it, but with it's pricing scheme it seems dead to me. Not going to pay so much for a game and every update, car, track, ...


AC fun game if you like NFS/GT, have a wheel and want to have fun.

Serious sim racing?
To be seen after tons of updates and full features of the game being revealed.


Haven't seen anything said about the physics model, is there any info about it?


Also doing half of the configuration in config files instead of menu and it still doesn't work is a bummer.

No FOV adjustment for me. But it's great they added grass and sand and curbs into a config so one can maybe make those off track surface have same grip as tarmac? LOL
JackCY
S2 licensed
Probably never seen it in LFS.
I can say that we do not have it, we only have:

4
Andy Warhol BMW M1 Group 4 1979

14
David Hockney BMW 850 CSi 1995

This one has been around in LFS but how accurate it is I can't tell:

17
Jeff Koons[7][8] BMW M3 GT2 2010

And it was probably made for a silly FXR not an XRR.

I plan to make:

3
Roy Lichtenstein BMW 320i Turbo 1977

Just didn't have the need and time for it.

11
A. R. Penck BMW Z1 1991

Seems like an easy one, tons of references and good photos to trace on the skin. 2 tone as well, makes it simple.

You should make it, it's one of the easiest art cars to make.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Great start guys great start, both GT1 jump start and the obligatory GT2 start crash and no restart that I see way too often on these fly starts. Is there ever a race with this type of start where there is no crash? People can't keep safe distances, trying to win on first 10m a 6h race



Lags in the field? Why don't you limit ping? Force them to pit/change driver or filter them out in practice and qualification?
Last edited by JackCY, .
JackCY
S2 licensed
I will add it to TODO and check what can be done. I have to do other things currently, it's an ON/OFF thing with LFSStats.

Gutholz: I think I saw that or similar error already. It was happening to me when on an online server and the races were restarting, sometimes this would happen. Might have been due to UDP, who knows. I think I fixed some of it already or it's noted there to be fixed.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Quote from Gutholz :Hi
I noticed a quirk:
Sometimes drivers will retire from a race (shift+s) but then rejoin and after few moments retire/leave for real. Maybe they accidentally join or it is a reflex to click the button, not sure.
So technically they have driven twice (first time say until lap 20, then rejoin and stand in pit for 10 seconds)
In LFSstats it will look like they only stood in pit but the 20 driven laps are discarded.

Sounds correct from what I remember.
Previous is lost.

Quote : A bit tricky to decide which "run" should be shown in stats

Simple. Your last valid run. Which in the case of LFS is your last run.

Quote :, for example if a driver drives 10 laps, crashes,

And retires from race.

Quote :rejoins

= starts again
Quote :drives 20 laps. But this is just about standing in pits for a few moments after retiring.

Retired. Those original 20 laps are DNF. Since LFS allows you to start over again the last one is then recorded.
Quote : I see it happens from time to time.
If driver does not complete any laps after rejoin, that could maybe be filtered out?

It still invalidates that original result. Yes I could possibly filter it out by detecting some things like pitlane exit if possible, SPX.

Quote :Example replay:
https://drive.google.com/folde ... 2cbH56Sx8ndWRjdW53WGxhRzQ
See driver MZR Kelle for example, he drove multiple laps but the "Positions Lap by Lap" graph makes it looks like he retired right at green light.
http://lfs.petsamo.fi/stats/2013-10-13_1_results_race.html

That is what he did if he started his race over again. It's way more simple when LFS acts more like real racing and race mid join is disabled.

Quote from dekojester :Or, would it be possible to display all laps completed by a car on the track (per PLID basically). That way if there's something mucked up as Gutholz has mentioned, the one who generated the report can edit out or aggregate the bogus / bonus lines.

As I understand it, is it about something like a tracker does?
That if you disconnect and then connect again you would be allowed to continue without discarding your old result? Which is what LFS does but tracker for leagues may be set to count the previous laps. You will lose a lot by a disconnect but it may be ok for long races.

Lap by lap is generated from the same data as the rest of the stats. That means keeping old laps affects all other results as well.

What happens I think is that if the player joins again and exists the previous results are discarded. New are created or the old ones are cleared.


I could add a config option to allow this different behavior if it does not break something else. Which may happen because such a player will then have more laps finished than what is the number of laps in a race. Does 20, retires, joins again, does 30 and finishes = 50 laps instead of 30.
Although if you only want to filter that rejoin and do not clear it unless at least a split is done or pits are left, that would not break that but it needs to be detected and new stats have to be started later which can be an issue for other things that may happen before driving first split. There is things to keep an eye on. Would have to check the code.


Otherwise it's simple. Do not rejoin a race if you want your stats
You've retired, stay in spectate do not enter pit lane.
Last edited by JackCY, .
JackCY
S2 licensed
What top speed can you guys get out of it? It should be in range of 220-225km/h showing on LFS speedometer depending tire pressures. When I've tested it seemed to be ok for the tracks I tried in terms of top speed.
Gears are shorter and it will spin the wheels more easily. Didn't try gear fitting for tracks since the gears are universal and taken from R300 and to be kept. It should fit better though because you don't have to go so down in revs on a gear and can downshift sooner.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Sorry I'm impatient, didn't know if it was noticed or not.
Take your time in making a decision.
JackCY
S2 licensed
Is there a chance of considering updating the LXC to resemble the R300 engine+gearbox? Or is it a lost cause?

Really not into driving a 5 gears butchered LX6.
JackCY
S2 licensed
It's around 210km/h on WE1 and 220km/h on KY2, top speed. It shows slightly over 220km/h on KY2. When I kill the tires and rev it on 6th it goes to 224km/h. But who knows what extra LFS shows on the speedometer. On the longest straights I know about in LFS it barely hits the top speed, I think it does not rev limit because the engine just doesn't have the power to push it at the end of the spectrum to hit the rev limit on 6th. Maybe with hard tires it would do it. Running BL1R set.

You are never going to use 6th gear with a final ratio of 3.62.
And you should barely max it out with the final ratio of 4.315.

For me, personally, longer gears = more stable = easier to control on mouse+keyboard
But it's just funny to make a car and series similar but have a very different car feel due to wrong gears.
Last edited by JackCY, .
JackCY
S2 licensed
Quote from dawesdust_12 :Troy was saying some similar things in IRC, how the gearing for the LXC car felt stupid. That said, he clearly could drive it quickly, but that they weren't great.

They are simply too long for that engine. You would have to use LFSTweak or something to mode the engine to resemble real R300 to be able to use 1:1 copy of R300 gears.
And adjusted to real R300 the final ratio for LX6 is around 4.315 to get the same gear speeds.

My times on BL1R are about the same with the faster final gear ratio. Slightly faster maybe, but .2s or so. Probably more when shifting better and handling the gas better. Did not beat 1:22 in the few laps I did. Which I can with the long gears and few laps.
Last edited by JackCY, .
LX Challenge 2013: Final Drive Change Discussion
JackCY
S2 licensed
Are you guys sure you did not forget to compensate for the different engines? Mainly rpms and max rpms between LFS LX6 engine and Ford Duratec in R300.

Quote :Engine Ancillary Package: 2.0 Litre Duratec
Max Power (bhp/rpm): 175 @ 7000 (7800 redline)
Max Torque (lbs ft/rpm): 139 @ 6000
Weight: 515 kg
0-60mph: 4.9 Seconds
Power-to-weight: 330 bhp-per-tonne
Top Speed: 138 mph

Where as LFS has 8970rpm redline or 9000 kind of. R300 does 222km/h (138mph) at 7800rpm (found on one specs page and rent4ring).

This messes up the gears, like a lot, LX6 is dead with the long gears of R300 you gave it, unreal.

You should use final drive ratio of 4.315:1 to get the same top speed and same gears as R300 has. (or an adjusted value due to other factors that is likely to be close to this one)

Basically that means you have an LX6 that has R300 ratios with a final ratio of 3.03:1 (tires adjusted), 3.148:1 (tires unadjusted). (R300 has slightly smaller tires than LX6)

Instead of
Quote :Close Ratio 6 Speed
1st: 2.69:1
2nd: 2.01:1
3rd: 1.59:1
4th: 1.32:1
5th: 1.13:1
6th 1.00:1
Final Drive: 3.62:1

Thus LX6 is like a sitting duck with ridiculous top speed of 264.6km/h, compared to R300 222km/h. Your 5th gear has topspeed of 234.2km/h, that's higher than R300 already.

The weight is kind of speculative, they probably report lower weight than the cars especially with rollcage then weight so +21kg, seems ok.

My 2 cents.

Deko's LX6 is called LXC, "properly" adjusted LX6 to be be similar to real R300 is called LXR300.

[B] LXC LXR300[/B]
First 2.690 2.690
Second 2.010 2.010
Third 1.590 1.590
Fourth 1.320 1.320
Fifth 1.130 1.130
Sixth 1.000 1.000
[B]Final 3.620 4.315[/B]

[B] Ratio [/B]
[B]ratio LXC LXR300[/B]
1 9.738 11.607
2 7.276 8.673
3 5.756 6.861
4 4.778 5.696
5 4.091 4.876
6 3.620 4.315

[B]Top Speed (Rev Limit 8970rpm)[/B]
[B]km/h LXC LXR300[/B]
1 98.4 82.5
2 131.7 110.5
3 166.4 139.6
4 200.5 168.2
5 234.2 196.5
[B]6 264.6 222.0[/B]

R300 tires 1715mm, LX6 tires 1780mm, that's the distance wheel travels in one revolution.

Might join, tried today and noticed this almost right away. Did this calculation now after racing in the afternoon. Because the gears seemed unreal.

Just tried BL1R again and the 6th is not maxed out at 222km/h there. It's not very far though. Would have been nice 6th for BL1R with the 4.315:1.


LX6 is already slower due to lower torque at lower rpms as well.
Last edited by JackCY, .
JackCY
S2 licensed
Connection I agree could be smoother.
I don't care much for replay smoothness and that can always be smoothed out of the data there already is but the racing experience per default could be with more updates. I guess servers do not boost it to the max? And use the default of half of max? Maybe I'm wrong.
It eats server bandwidth that's for sure.

Reaction times, maybe from Insim?

Hotlapping, you don't need the Forces view, you just learn how close you can go and at that fast pace you probably don't have the time to look where your tires go. Good point though. Views, I think everybody uses something that suits them and their setup, I use cockpit but those with a wheel or projector might prefer some specific screen setup without cockpit and a with a custom position.
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