Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I'll have them rotated, but the fronts don't really have that much tread left anyway (and usually, on a Subaru, ALL the tires have to be within 1/16").

I never ever let the fronts have less tred than the rears, thats asking for trouble personally think that is all your problem was. Low tred on the fronts in the wet means they probably aquaplaned on a slightly oily surface.

Quote from JTbo :

You can get even a bus to handle on track if you have resources, it does not mean that your average bus is any good at all on track.

hehe and you know all about buses big brick like things on wheels

I'm fairly calm in RL and in LFS most times doesn't mean some things don't get under my skin but I just tend to shrug them off quickly

The one thing that does irritate me, since you talk about rural drivers Mike is those that are on a wide open road and I am criusing along chillin out at a little over the speed limit and then some impaitent git sits on my bumper when he could just as easily sit back a hundred meters or so and enjoy the trip or he could hang back until a suitable safe time to overtake and zoom by. But no he wants to sit on my bumper

Some guy did that a few weeks ago, so I just lifted off the throttle slowed down 20km/h then sped up again. Had to do that three times before the guy got it lol Why some people feel they need to be 10m off your bumper on a wide open stretch of road is beyond me

Glad too hear it

Having blip on or off being faster or slower depends on your braking technique and the way you set up your brakes so there is not one answer.

Personally I have it off and do manual blipping. As you learn to trail brake more you will find you need to use the throttle to balance the car anyways.

Fastest way to downshift for me in FWD cars and in RWD cars but to a lesser extent is to hold the throttle full open for the split second you down shift and apply brakes. That helps keep the car balanced in the initial braking phase with quite alot of engine braking. Then I find in the RWD cars (especially road cars while using the clutch pack with low preload settings) that picking up the throttle again before you come off the brakes entirely helps keep the car balanced in the transition phase.

Quote from R34king :

ok thanks guys and Damo74 it dosnt even turn on nice mini Fenchy and yea ill just continue on i get upset real easy

You can get the data back most times it just depends on how much money you've got and are willing to spend

One way is find a second hand drive that is identical that still works, swap all the electronic boards accross and you may get a resurected drive.

I've had another occassion were a system no longer recognised a hard drive because of bad sectors. Believe it or not, I was able to retrieve the data still by putting the hard drive in the freezer for 30min before trying to boot it again

So don't believe your average tech if they say nothing can be done. Things can be done but it can also cost alot.

Quote from JTbo :

However my Volvo beats Viper any day, in running costs but I'm sure that race is pretty even

Your one deluded sick puppy

Many people tell you that?

Quote from axus :

By the way, as you're a keen LX driver...

Thanks for the set Axus I'll give it a thorough testing

Hmm I'd love to join a league one day, but it aint going to be any time soon as I work 7 days a week with several days a week out of town too. So LFS time is quite spasmodic and will be for some time yet. When life returns to some semblance of normality, probably sometime in 2020 when S3 is released I'll definately be giving it a go

Don't know if you remember me from S1 days I used to race under the name Oz-GBK or Leo we had some fun times on the track back then cya on track again sometime.

Going faster is mostly a mind thing, your doing what feels comfortable and safe. As a consequence you can find yourself in a rut not being able to improve been there many times myself

You could improve the most in sector 2, coner at end of straight need to aim for minimum of 110km you can take it at 111 - 112 with practise. Same with the second chicane take it a few km/h faster.

You do get on the gas early which is good and obviously have taken to heart the slow in fast out principle. But I'd say your being a tad coservitive in the braking and transition zones.

To get yourself out of a rut I'd recommend you to force yourself to overdrive. i.e. aim to have the minimum apex speed a few km/h above what you currently are comfortable with and attempt to brake a little later than you do now. Don't worry about lap time or safe driving while you do this, the aim is to try discover where you can go faster.

After you have done a number of laps like this return to trying to get a fast clean lap, I guarantee you, you will find a few more tenths after some perseverence

Oh and don't listen to SparkyDave about RHD in the XFG LHD is faster arround BL1 - ask [Duck] if you don't belive

Last edited by Glenn67, Tue 20 Nov 2007, 10:45.

Quote from axus :

It's a bit oversteery at first if you're used to the normal LX4 setups you're likely to come across. But it's bloody fast. Works well on most tracks with a few tweaks.

I've been driving the LX's mostly lately, and have been using Todd's sets for the LX4 which you posted, I find them very good to drive

You don't happen to have some really nice sets for the LX6 as well, pretty please Lx6 is my favorite car in LFS at the moment

I voted the second option but if I had a clutch and H shifter and was on a server where there were other people using similar equipment I would be all for the challenge and realism option currently I just have a momo though

Maybe in a year or two when I stop working 7 days a week I'll make myself a cockpit with clutch, three screen setup etc, that would be my ultimate long term goal

Quote from the_angry_angel :

There are patent / licencing issues when it comes to "ghost mode". I believe they've been discussed here, and definately at RSC previously.

Well it wouldn't be a ghost mode it would be a parallel universe mode or concurent qualify/race mode

Seems like a good compromise to me I'm one of those that would just prefer no mid race joins ever but understand why most don't like that so qualifying concurently in a parallel universe is a good compromise

Just found this old video footage of a V8Supercar race in 1994 in the wet around the Adelaide circiut and thought it was worth sharing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... etu5E&feature=related

Quote from ACCAkut :

favourite supercar of all times is the F40 for me. V8, twinturbo

Listen to the F40 go by then hear the F50 GT1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... YuD6k&feature=related

About 200m off shore spear fishing, when a large sea lion came from nowhere flashing past the front of my face blocking out everything (nearly shat my pants )

Several near misses and some that hit in way of car accidents.

1. Travelling down a gravel road when some speeding Sweedish tourists coming the other way didn't see us and overracted when they did. Ended up going side ways into a ditch rolling there rental car several times before coming to a rest just in front of us

2. Pulled up at a set of lights that was just over the crest of a hill. Looked in my review mirror to see a speeding car slam on his brakes directly behind me! He ended up going sideways and flipping his car to end up ahead of us on the median strip (close miss)

3. Coming around a bend doing about 150km/h in the middle of nowhere at 3am in the morning to find a herd of cattle directly in front of us sleeping in the middle of the road had no time to slow down so picked a path through them and shut my eyes. made it somehow.

4. Going for one of my many drives along country roads when younger late at night, going much too fast with a layer of fog settling in thinking it looked cool as it was about roof hieght of the car. Came around a bend to be met by 3 horses that were loose on the road. Slammed on the brakes got a bit sideways but managed to pull up with just a few meters to spare.

List goes on but I will stop boring you could talk all day about accidents and near misses in cars lol

For me it would have to be the Lamborghini Miura, since the early 80's when I saw one up close and personal and had a long chat to the lucky mechanic that had just drove it accross the nullabough sitting on 160mph most of the way for it's new owner, the new owner had a factory full of cars next door to were I worked at the time. There are better cars sure but that's the one that grabed me most. They look much better irl than in photo or on camera also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... 47xbk&feature=related

Last edited by Glenn67, Sun 18 Nov 2007, 09:53.

Quote from Tweaker :

Well it is true

I've heard quite a few (ok not "a lot") people say "lets go on demo" in a S2 server or teamspeak/ventrillo server.... I join where they are playing, and they are just wrecking people for a good laugh. Other times it is wrecker vs wrecker.

I've heard of that happening before and have been told it happens alot also but didn't really want to believe it to be true way to go eh, people like that really think that that wll not effect the S2 environment long term

I've spent quite abit of time in demo over the years and have made friends and helped several newbies at times that have gone onto buy S2. That has a positive impact. Surely they can see wrecking in demo will have a negative impact. It astounds me that they might think it will encourage demo users to buy S2

But meh I remember the times when demo was full of very respectful fast racers. Can still find some these days but they are certainly abit thinner on the ground in demo now

Quote from Hyperactive :

More advanced tires is always for the better but personally I'm afraid that scrubbing is something that is too hard for LFSsers and hence won't be implemented

I don't think it would take too long for people to catch on once implemented and the benifets of a better tyre heat model in respect to setup consequences and driving styles far outway any negatives imo

I am really looking forward to dynamic track conditions for the same reasons

I'm Australian and I lived and worked in Malaysia for 3 years (not quite the same as France as alot of people can speak some English, most speak 3 langauges)

Living and breathing another culture certainly opens your eyes to different ways of viewing life, so from that point of view it is priceless and I would recommend it, even if it meant a slight pay cut. I personally took a drastic pay cut initially, earnt less in a month than I earnt in a week in Australia

Back in Australia now both my wife and myself are doing quite well in life and I'd put quite abit of that down to the experiences we had as expats.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The rubber undergoes a chemical change due to the heat (sort of self-hardens in a way), and a mechanical work-hardening process as well I believe.

Found this interesting paragraph at

http://www.avonracing.com/tech/advice.htm

Quote :

It is relatively easy to generate temperature in the driving tyres as they are transmitting power most of the time. The front tyres, however, will need to be given more time and be loaded up progressively before they will be 'In' fully. It should be noted that it is the loading of tyres that introduces the significant heat, not sliding or wheelspinning.
For qualifying, the best results have been shown to have been achieved when the front and rear tyre temperatures are the same when measured at the base of the tread. If pushed too early, the rear will come in before the front causing understeer, and taken to the extreme, cold graining as detailed above.

In LFS it appears that friction is the main factor that increases heat in tyres were in RL it would appear that the mechanical manipulation (i.e. energy converted to tractive power with some waste heat going into the rubber) of the tyre is the main cause of tyre temperature change. Hence why you don't see V8 Supercars doing drifts and wheel spins to warm up there tyres, but rather working them by accelerating then braking firmly as well as swerving from side to side. All which work the rubber which has a by product of producing heat

So perhaps that would mean that the tyre surface can heat and cool quickly from friction but the temperature of the main body of the tyre is more influenced by mechanical grip (i.e. distortion of the tyre)

Is problems like graining and blistering from excessive surface temp not main body of tyre temp?

That would also explain well why in RL lower pressures see more heat in tyres than high pressures, and my go along way to fixing the abuses of using too low a pressure or high a pressure in LFS at the moment which only changes the contact patch size and therefore the amount of friction based heat. So if heat was modeled on tyre deformation as well too low a pressure would result in much higher heating of tyres than now what happens, same may be true in reverse for too high a pressure. Is that one of the primary reasons tyre manufacturers specifiy an optimum pressure range?

The same probably goes for high camber angles, hence why you don't really see extreme camber on the driven wheels in RL as it would be causing unwanted tyre heat generated even in a straight line accross the whole tyre due to deformation were in lfs it just causes uneven heating...

Last edited by Glenn67, Tue 13 Nov 2007, 22:48. Reason : More insane musings muahaha :p

Quote from Hankstar :

We have to be clear which kind of drift we're talking about here to avoid confusion. The only kind of drift that's useful in a tarmac race is four-wheel drift, which is far removed from the drift you see in LFS drift servers and often barely noticeable. It's not useful at all in a high-downforce, slickshod car like a GTR or open-wheeler and only semi-useful in a low-grip RWD road car like an LX, XRG/T or FZ.

In the LX's and XFG I have occassionally used a big show drift to slow down when I have fallen asleep at the wheel and missed my braking point by 50m so it can be useful lol but not a move I'd put in a text book or anything like that

Quote from JTbo :

I would say that it is much more of challenge than one may first think, maybe easiest solution would be start with only ice?

I didn't for a moment really think it would be easy but had a feeling making a comment like that would stimulate discusion

Even a good dirt simulation would require alot of the characterisitcs you discribe (i.e. ruts, tyres digging in, banks, pot holes, loose/soft offline, firmer on racing line, firm compact sand, soft sand, rough gravel, pea gravel which is my favourite etc, etc)

Quote from JTbo :

I have been wondering that if it really is even possible to do so that driving is realistic.

We all know that you can measure summer tires quite well and plot data from those to nice graphs, but this method just don't work out at all for winter tires.

Surface that tire is touching is completely different, also slipping tire can change surface to be totally different.

Winter tires without studs are of course easy compared to those studded versions, but snow surface is still completely different than ice or tarmac and you should be able to make tire to work in all these and at same time.

Then there is wet snow too, that is again another challenge.

What do you think, is it even possible to make work without supercomputer?

I would think it's not too hard, not easy but not too hard. I've seen some info on this recently and the main difference between snow and a hard surface is that the primary means of traction is mechanical rather than frictional. Bit like driving with slicks in the rain I guess the tricky bit would be simulating how a tyre might bit into the snow. Wouldn't know though as I've never seen the stuff let alone driven on it

Quote from z3r0c00l :

There is a section on tire load sensitivities. This is important, because tires, in their massive complexity, don't produce grip linearly with load.

From personal experience, driving reasonable road tires at 235/40/18, 32psi, and dicking around, and well past the limits of traction, I'd say the tires snap back sooner. I'd say LFS's physics are spot on for wet roads, with the traction multiplied up a bit, if you get me. But I am by no means any authority.

That is exactly how I feel the tyres in LFS also at this stage. I wasn't susjesting load sensitivity wasn't modeled in LFS just that it possibly could be the next thing that gets fine tuned and that it probably is linked to a more complex contact patch simulation

In my thinking if you put a car side ways in LFS the tyres have grip loss that is linear which causes a more gradual shift in wieght. In RL once you have gone past a certain grip level the grip loss is no longer linear on the outside loaded tyres and therefore the wieght shift is more dramatic which causes the snap back. What do you think?

Also I was under the impression that in LFS we currently frequently run higher than real life settings for ARB? So put that down to tyre load sensitivity not being severe enough As ARB seems to be used more for driver feel of car than achieving optimium grip in RL. In RL they seem to consider much more the grip of all four tyres were in LFS alot of the fast setups pretty much discount the inside tyres of a corner... thoughts please

Quote from Shotglass :

btw just 2 pages in and were already way off topic

That's always a danger when raising a topic related to tyres

Quote from JTbo :

... hopefully everyone has paid their loans to minimum

I'm in that process right now, I've got more than most but at least they are all for investment and not pleasure

That's why I'm not much on LFS these last few months, hopefuly by Jan - Feb '08 I'll be in a much better position