There is an advantage in LFS to using higher brake pressure, the problem is that with the increased possibility of increased stopping performance comes an increase in possible errors. This is compounded by the inadequate type of controllers on the market (travel orrientated instead of pressure orriented) and the fact that max brake pressure can be fine tuned to such a high level (basically mimicking threshold braking while eliminating the possobility of errors).
So a possible work arround would be to have more coarse adjustments in max brake pressure (perhaps 50nm increments), so that it is less likely to emulate thresshold braking thus increasing the dividends of using a high brake pressure and threshold braking.
Brakes are made up of hydrolics components just like shocks so braking charateristics would be adjustable in many ways in rl, most obvious being changing piston sizes or having a relief valve that vents back to the master cylinder at a set pressure...
I also would love to see greater realism in brakes but don't think the current crop of controllers are ready for it.
they go all out for perfection then listen with there imperfect ears 
This would be useful indeed, alone with longer setup names, filters and I'd also love to see folders for archiving and/or sorting setups.
+1 and bump
+1 and bump
I wouldn't say that, they both are not focusing on the same aspect so I'll use both as a source for base sets for as long as they are around
I'd possibly be willing to pay the price but only if the content is interesting to me, I'm not at a serious disadvantage being in my timezone/location and the physics were way way way better than LFS.
Personally I'm highly doubtful all those conditions will be met
Personally I'm highly doubtful all those conditions will be met
That's pretty much my stance on this whole issue as well.
Spicy sorry to get you worked up (I actually don't know you so it wasn't directed at you or bawbag for that matter, well I lie there a little as I knew if bawbag was involved then I'd likely draw attention which it did sry bawbag :razz
I do think that setup info is a bit too public atm especially as the sim develops further and teams / leagues become a whole lot more serious. But on the other hand LFS has always been pretty open as in sharing setup info to allow others to gain understanding and become more competitive. I peronally don't use LFS often enough to participate in any real league racing or such so it doesn't effect me, but I have thought about the issue.
Do I just go around stealing sets? No not normally. I also have done and are continuely learning as much as I can about the physics of racing but the further I have gone into it I have realised that the limits of the LFS environment means taking slightly different direction in setup building than perhaps would be the case in RL analysing other peoples setups and WR replays allow people to learn better driving and setup building technique more rapidly than if you were purely to do it by trial an error alone. The process of building a good setup would still remain similar to the real world though.
I personally have no real interest in stealing sets other than curiosity to learn to enable better set building in the future. I did this to stir debate on the subject as I did think to myself "if I can determine other peoples competitive advantage with some degree of accuracy it must be happening in teams" I also have a feeling that its possible to get more info with more detailed analysis of the raf files.
I personally think the way to go in the future is to limit the ability to output raf data to your own spr for analysis locking all other spr. But on the other hand I'd also like to see more open information on how lfs works as well though, like say official virtual tyre data, track data and suspension designs. This is data a race engineer would have in real life quite easily but is not so easy to extract from a virtual environment.
Meh I don't necessarily disagree with your stance
I partly did this to high-light just how easy it is to determine setup data, which I don't necessarily think is right, but at the moment anyone can do it . I did suspect it might stir a hornets nest Cool
I'm sure I could get closer with more effort, that just took a few mins 
that sounds like a challenge to see if I can get closer to the same setup now if it was a car I actually drive I might be persuaded to try but I don't think I've even left the pits in a gtr car since physics reset Good point that confirms camber to be a little different, think Bawbag's playing pocker (holding cards close to his chest!)
With more detailed analysis of raf data I think you could get some idea of diff settings through analysis of power at the wheels at variours stages, you could also verify toe and parallel steer although the diff and parrellel steer settings would be the most subjective.
With several runs comparing raf data you could more closely approximate wing settings looking at top speeds and tyre loads. And of course with several test laps you could get some idea of how close you are to the correct tyre pressures...
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Just for the fun of it I have taken an educated guess at bawbag's set using replay analysers etc
The camber steering tyre pressures etc are from deductive reasoning, the brake, gears and most suspension settings are directly from the raf file.
Tel me if I'm close I still could investigate camber more closely but I'd need to do some test laps...
[edit]attachment removed[/edit]
The camber steering tyre pressures etc are from deductive reasoning, the brake, gears and most suspension settings are directly from the raf file.
Tel me if I'm close
I still could investigate camber more closely but I'd need to do some test laps...[edit]attachment removed[/edit]
Last edited by Glenn67, .
Oi don't blame me for that joke, it was my mum that sent it to me!
Incidently for as long as I can remember she has been affectionately know as shorty
If you can't occassionally laugh at yourself and the world around you, how miserable life would be...I definately feel that political correctness has gone full circle at times and now is just scary at times, initiating the type of responses from people that it originally was trying to stop
I don't think that is entirely true
people that are in the field of physics have been studying and sharing/selling alot of detailed information about simulated tyre physics for the past 15 - 20 years. The problem hasn't been a lack of understanding on their behalf but more it has been an issue of lack of computer power needed to run live simulations due to there complexity. They have been able to run quite accurate non live simulations for quite some time I believe.While that is maybe true it doesn't guarantee that they will get it right. Knocking up some formulae that fit their newly aquired tire data in the test conditions, does not mean that the simulated tyre will behave like a real tyre in all conditions
e.g. From my understanding drum tyre test units have several limitations. The primary one being that it is a round surface which would give different contact patch dimensions.
Even with a flatbed machine it has a different surface to the race track so can only give approximations of how a tyre might behave live on a track.
When they say they have tested all tyres, how many different surfaces have they tested them on and under how many varying conditions. Then they would have to come up with a set of formulae to simulate all these results, they would be right back to the problem of CPU power. So any simulation that runs on a PC is going to be a less than a perfect replication of a true tyres performance.
So the question is not really about the data they collect but the compromises they will have to make to get it to work on an average PC.
Now with iRacing I so far precieve that the minimum specs will be higher than that recommended for LFS, so I do see it is entirely feasable that it could have a better tyre model than LFS does currently but it's not guaranteed and how much better is even less clear. We will see soon I guess
LFS tyre physics are still lacking in some areas but I don't think that is because of a lack of understanding or information, I think it is more from needing to make some compromises to get it to run solidly on an average PC.
What strikes me as being funny is that the US military is the one that created the internet so that it is esentially uncontrolable, now they want to control it again seems like they are really good at making solutions which later explode in there faces causing them to take more drastic measures to correct their initial "solution"
seems like they are really good at making solutions which later explode in there faces causing them to take more drastic measures to correct their initial "solution" I find waving and smiling is more benifical to my mental health
I've found trying to tell others that they are thinking wrong is futil and I know the way I think isn't necessarily correct either
we all view life through the experiences we have had so we are all biased in some way...My own opinion on what makes a racing legend is that we are all not created equal. This doesn't mean that there is no hope for us average joe's, we can all become very good at whatever we choose with a lot of hard work and dedication. But the difference between someone that is a professional and someone that reaches the very pinicale and becomes legendary is that they are professional in combination with a fortunate mix of dna
I couldn't agree more
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ayrton senna 87 response taken in context with other posts he was replying to gives me the impression he was being sarcastic
maybe I'm reading him wrong and he was serrious would like him to come back and say but you have all probably scared him away I see alot of occassions were people take comments in isolation rather than in context of the thread and jump to what I feel are wrong conclusions about the intention of the post, everyone seems to be a little too highly strung around here lately
LOL this thread is testiment to the dangers of using sarcasm on the internet
Your maths is missing a few variables
In the Demo you get to play online with servers about 40% the number slots of S2 servers in addition you can use 100% of the physics features.
So the percentage of the game you actually have in demo is 1.55% track & car content + 40% of online features + 100% of physics features which is equal to approx 47% of the entire game
So demo content is an extremely good deal and imo very well balanced at the moment.
Will it support configurable independent views on different monitors similar to MS FlightSim? Even with the possibility of using several PC's to make a cockpit?
Will it support real gauges and instrumentation? What about things like brake bias being assigned to an axis?
I assume it will have full telementry support and analysis. What about live telementy feeds to team mates?
As I said to me it is beginning to look very interesting, the main concern I'd have is that due to my timezone I'd not get much value from it.
If it truely can deliver on what it says in regards to tyre physics model (although they haven't given any specifics) and track detail I would give it a go.
In regards to tyres in iRacing as a race driver do they give you access to virtual tyre data to aid in suspension tunning? Things like tyre spring rate under various loads, cornering stiffness, etc.
Do the tyres behave as expected when opperated outside of tyre manufacturers recommendations? i.e. if 10 psi below is steering input quite disconected to car response, do the tyres heat unevenly and do they sustain damage due to excessive sidewall rollover, etc?
Is there a noticable difference to the heat/grip model between racing slicks and treaded tyres?
These are the things that will tip the scales for me
If it can do all of that I'd readily pay the ongoing fees Will it support multimonitor views?
Biggest negatives I see is it seems to be mostly focusing on US content, if it is truely going to be aimed globaly it needs to incorperate content from around the world.
They talk about geographically located teams/events as well, that is a hurdle that will not be easy for example the time zone I live in (Western Australia) is aligned with much of asia but Australia doesn't have very good backbone links with asia which then limits potential competitors to my own city and the eastern states of Australia which is at times 3 hrs different and relatively much smaller pool of potential sim drivers compareed to the US, Europe or Asia.
I think the whole concept has some interesting points and potentially will be very good, but have doubts about it being sucessful on a global scale.
I will watch it's pregress with interest and may even be convinced to give it ago...
Biggest negatives I see is it seems to be mostly focusing on US content, if it is truely going to be aimed globaly it needs to incorperate content from around the world.
They talk about geographically located teams/events as well, that is a hurdle that will not be easy
for example the time zone I live in (Western Australia) is aligned with much of asia but Australia doesn't have very good backbone links with asia which then limits potential competitors to my own city and the eastern states of Australia which is at times 3 hrs different and relatively much smaller pool of potential sim drivers compareed to the US, Europe or Asia.I think the whole concept has some interesting points and potentially will be very good, but have doubts about it being sucessful on a global scale.
I will watch it's pregress with interest and may even be convinced to give it ago...
Time that you have enjoyed wasting isn't wasted time at all
Oh love is a very commonly speulcated and traded stock
just look at the devorce figures Or more specifically its speculators
i.e. capatilism at its finest.Greed and fear is what drives the world economies
I currently pay about A$160 per week on fuel, this time last year I was averaging A$350 per week so I'm better off now
In crisis we tend to visualise worst case scenarios, often they turn out better than expected. I hope that turns out to be true in your case.
Best of luck with the insurance claim
Best of luck with the insurance claim
I'm not meaning to be harsh (only enough to shock
) I do feel empathy for you, it is hard when other thankless shits violate you.Ten years is a drop in the ocean though
If it took you 2 years to get it back to where it was thats not much. Take what you can from the situation and move on you have plenty of time left to do great things in this life yet whether that is this current project or another 
but if you let bitterness, misery and revenge be your company for too long they will consume your whole life and that would be a far greater tragedyFGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG