Last night I had my first ever race using the clutch and shifter on my G25.

Whilst I found it fun, challanging and a lot more realistic, I also found it frustrating that it made me quite a bit less consistant, although the speed was there, the consistancy wasn't.

So, it came to my mind, do people like the challenge and realism that certain settings or pieces of hardware can give you, or do you prefer the speed and/or consistancy that "simpler" options can give you?.

I am somewhere inbetween, whilst I will try and maintain a certain level of realism/challenge, I do like trying to keep the speed/consistancy to a certain level.

Does anyone forgo speed and consistancy JUST for realism and challenge?, likewise does anyone use "simple" settings just for pure speed and consistancy.

Personally, I don't think I will use the clutch and shifter in "competitive" racing, but just for giggles, I will use it in "fun" racing

I always use my clutch and H shifter. It doesn't feel right at all if I don't use it. I've gotten so used to it, that it's like second nature. And even though other methods may be better, it's more fun this way. I also make the game think my wheel only turns 720, so that the road cars turn the full 900, so I have to turn the wheel more. It's more fun :P

Quote from danowat :

Personally, I don't think I will use the clutch and shifter in "competitive" racing, but just for giggles, I will use it in "fun" racing

Pussy.

I drove all RSSC races with 720-degrees–clutch pedal–H-shifter. You got no excuses not to do the same.

I voted the second option but if I had a clutch and H shifter and was on a server where there were other people using similar equipment I would be all for the challenge and realism option currently I just have a momo though

Maybe in a year or two when I stop working 7 days a week I'll make myself a cockpit with clutch, three screen setup etc, that would be my ultimate long term goal

I voted for something in between. A balance between realism / speed / consistancy / challenge

Quote from spankmeyer :

Pussy.

I drove all RSSC races with 720-degrees–clutch pedal–H-shifter. You got no excuses not to do the same.

I am slow enough in the RSSC without having to use clutch and H-shift

I use whatever the car equivalent in LFS uses. The only exception would be the big GTR class (which I never race anyway), where I'd use paddles or sequential instead of the H-gate shifter. Wheel rotation is set to 540° - I would use more if the G25 was a bit quieter during fast turning, but so I have to find a compromise between realism and not annoying my surroundings too much.

As much realism as you can get =) I used a clutch and shifter on my Momo until the upshift stopped working. I have a gated shifter in the states, but I have not sent it over yet. Once I get that I will be back to manual clutch again =)

I use whatever is appropriate for the car and always use clutch. So h-pattern in road cars, sequential in GTR's and paddles in the formulas. Back when I raced leagues I didn't have the h-pattern but I still always used clutch and only used the paddles for the formula cars.
Personally I believe there are more gains to be made in other areas which well and truly make up for what you might lose driving using clutch & shifter. This does diminish of course the closer you get to the bleeding edge but then you do become more proficient with the extra controls so the disadvantages also diminish.
If I were to start racing leagues again I would still use the whole lot, I just prefer it and don't worry about what others do that much.

Ι agree with the “something between” I use always the same degrees of rotation as the car has at my G25 (and my DFP, when I had it).

But I hate the shifter… it’s like a cheap plastic toy you by for a kid so there is something to break the following hour… so I couldn’t care less about H shifting with that kind of shifter

What do you win in LFS races? Nothing! If I had a clutch and h-shifter, I would use them definitely. I'm sure the speed and consistency would improve in short time just as it did the last time you changed controllers (270 degrees to 900 degrees, mouse to wheel, etc.)

Some folks say "I would use what's appropriate..... sequential in GTRs." I would stay with h-shifter for everything except the open wheeled cars. There's no fun in sequential when you have an h-shifter/clutch staring at you.

Whats the point of getting a G25 if you're not using it to its full potential?

I vote for Realism all the way.

All fair points I guess, maybe I am just so used to using the paddle shift without a clutch, I find it so alien to use the clutch and H shifter.

As for the G25 shifter hardware, I was actually quite pleased with how solidly it shifts, and with a nice metal shaft, I don't think it will fail too quickly

As for the "there is nothing to win in LFS races", it is a fair point, however, I do find the idea of "handicapping" yourself, by using hardware that you are slower with a little tough to swallow ATM, my idea might change after some extended time using the clutch/shifter

Quote from danowat :

As for the G25 shifter hardware, I was actually quite pleased with how solidly it shifts, and with a nice metal shaft, I don't think it will fail too quickly

Mine failed after a couple of months and keeps jumping from one gear to another. Did use it until then in every race I did, (with the roadcars) and will start using it once I get a replacement.

I'm faster with clutch & H-gate in the road cars...

Though consistency does go down, that's true. Also I'm pretty useless with LFB. The occasional LFB in corners where I don't need to shift is fine, but when I constantly do it with paddles/autoclutch, I tend to simply brake too much, understeering into every corner because I don't release the pedal enough.

I tend to try and use whatever the car should have.

However, I don't like LFS's clutch simulation, as I tend to miss shifts very very easily (which I rarely do in real life). So I have been known to put auto-clutch on as a safety net (but still use the pedal).

I would also consider using smaller lock, paddles and pure auto-clutch in an important league race. Not every race, just one where it's really important to get a result, like the last race of the season.

But overall I tend to lean towards realism.

Quote from teaz-R :

Mine failed after a couple of months and keeps jumping from one gear to another. Did use it until then in every race I did, (with the roadcars) and will start using it once I get a replacement.

Hmm.....doesn't sound good, maybe I'll try and be gentle with it then

I too have tried using the H-Shifter and heel toeing instead of the auto blip. In the FOX for example, because of the low weight and downforce using an H-Shifter and cutch means you are slower in the braking areas. In slower cars that take longer to stop it is less of an issue.

I simply wouldn't be competitive in FOX league races with full manual gears. These cars would probably have sequential boxes with flappy paddles anyway so its not really an issue for me.

However, when I play GTL occasionally I always go full manual. I don't care if I'm fast or slow when I play that game - I just enjoy the sound.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

In the FOX for example, because of the low weight and downforce using an H-Shifter and cutch means you are slower in the braking areas.

Err, just to be sure, the FOX in LFS is supposed to be sequential anyway...

Quote from tristancliffe :

However, I don't like LFS's clutch simulation, as I tend to miss shifts very very easily (which I rarely do in real life). So I have been known to put auto-clutch on as a safety net (but still use the pedal).

Have you tried limiting the clutch pedal range? I mean that you reach full clutch decoupling ingame before actually reaching 100% pedal depression, so the last few degrees of the clutch pedal are actually a deadzone. This helps a lot in my experience.

Quote from The Very End :

I voted for something in between. A balance between realism / speed / consistancy / challenge

Im with you mate. Once those are found you by logic should be unstopable. I reckon with practice you become better, so soldier on until then .

Quote from danowat :

Hmm.....doesn't sound good, maybe I'll try and be gentle with it then

It's not like I was being rough with it. I think the problem is the potentiometers which track the stick's movement. Either they're not secured well enough or their resolution isn't good enough for such a short travel.

Quote from AstroBoy :

Im with you mate. Once those are found you by logic should be unstopable. I reckon with practice you become better, so soldier on until then .

Amen brother!

I think the challenge/consistancy is quite simple equation in racing sims. The more controls you need to use, the more chances for mistakes. If you use H-gate, 3 pedals and lots of rotation you need to do more than with paddles, autoclutch and less rotation.

In a way there is very short time frames for individual inputs and if you have more controls you have more time frames and inputs to match. This kinda grows expotentially when you are going for the last percentages towards the really fast laps. If you miss an input it will delay and change the next ones and if you have more controls the effect multiplies.

Kinda like braking while steering when the rear gets a bit loose. With paddles&autoclutch, no big deal. With manual clutch and H-shifter you need to redo the whole order of inputs to match the new situation.

well dano, with road cars you will soon find yourself almost never making mistakes w/ shifting, though it is funny to miss shift it adds to the realism. I dont know if the 6 speed shifter is slower than sequential or how much slower since i only have a dfp, and i used to plug in other pedals for a clutch. I usually use the same steering lock as cars ingame and people say that's slower, yet i'm able to keep up w/ the faster guys when i race my hardest.. i dont know if its the same for the g25 shifter though.

Quote from AndroidXP :

Have you tried limiting the clutch pedal range? I mean that you reach full clutch decoupling ingame before actually reaching 100% pedal depression, so the last few degrees of the clutch pedal are actually a deadzone. This helps a lot in my experience.

Great tip that, I might have to try that myself, makes a lotta sence

Quote from teaz-R :

It's not like I was being rough with it. I think the problem is the potentiometers which track the stick's movement. Either they're not secured well enough or their resolution isn't good enough for such a short travel.

They are pots? interesting, I assumed they would just be microswitches.