I don't think you read everything in the thread before posting that.
Also Crank case pressure has nothing to do with engine braking, you will never get a noticable drag because of air moving in the crank or because air pressure is higher in the crank than in the pistons.
Engine braking is caused by vacuum in the intake. When the throttle is closed it's vacuum that keeps the engine from accelerating, there is always vacuum in an intake system, and in the pistons during the intake stroke. When you downshift and close the throttle, this vacuum increases because now the engine HAS to turn at a faster rate regardless of if you rev match or not. Rev matching is to reduce the shock, so the engine is already turning faster, but as soon as you release the throttle and let out the clutch the engine is going to try to slow down. It's vacuum that keeps an engine at idle.
However, race cars shift so quickly when braking that you should not be in a gear long enough to get anything out of engine braking.
Also Crank case pressure has nothing to do with engine braking, you will never get a noticable drag because of air moving in the crank or because air pressure is higher in the crank than in the pistons.
Engine braking is caused by vacuum in the intake. When the throttle is closed it's vacuum that keeps the engine from accelerating, there is always vacuum in an intake system, and in the pistons during the intake stroke. When you downshift and close the throttle, this vacuum increases because now the engine HAS to turn at a faster rate regardless of if you rev match or not. Rev matching is to reduce the shock, so the engine is already turning faster, but as soon as you release the throttle and let out the clutch the engine is going to try to slow down. It's vacuum that keeps an engine at idle.
However, race cars shift so quickly when braking that you should not be in a gear long enough to get anything out of engine braking.
I can't be sure they are going to completely kill off anything but the newest version of LFS, only the devs can say that. But if I where them, I would.
Road cars tend to have lower ratios than race cars. I'd still like to see you outbrake someone who has a car set up for racing. You use engine and they use brakes, see who slows down faster. Hell you can use BOTH and they will slow down faster than you on brakes alone. Not because of skill, but because the car is set up better.
The amount of braking you will gain from using both is pointless, like I said, you can use it when you don't need to use the brakes to slow down, but when you want to realy slow down for a corner you will still have to use the brakes. At which point engine braking, and its comparably lower force, is still going to be negligable when you are slowing down with the brakes. Remember, these guys arn't on a sunday drive, they don't have time to leave it in gear for engine braking to have an effect. they usualy spend as much time in gear as they do out during braking, especialy if they double clutch as they heel-toe.
@h0tz
Please don't make me re-write the whole article about engine braking I had to write in the other thread. I'd link to it, but I can't find it either.
Engine braking is caused by the vacuum of the intake system, because the engine needs to speed up and the throttle is closed, vacuum increases, this increases resistance on the piston face when it lowers on the intake stroke.
If you look at engines the way I do, from a completely physical and mechanical sense you will realize that compression is always paired with a power stroke so it can't possibly be compression, it can't be friction because again, there's always a power stroke happening to counteract that. So whats left? Vacuum in the intake causing the pistons to do more work during the intake stroke.
And I won't even get into diesels and engine brakes, because they are very different.
The amount of braking you will gain from using both is pointless, like I said, you can use it when you don't need to use the brakes to slow down, but when you want to realy slow down for a corner you will still have to use the brakes. At which point engine braking, and its comparably lower force, is still going to be negligable when you are slowing down with the brakes. Remember, these guys arn't on a sunday drive, they don't have time to leave it in gear for engine braking to have an effect. they usualy spend as much time in gear as they do out during braking, especialy if they double clutch as they heel-toe.
@h0tz
Please don't make me re-write the whole article about engine braking I had to write in the other thread. I'd link to it, but I can't find it either.
Engine braking is caused by the vacuum of the intake system, because the engine needs to speed up and the throttle is closed, vacuum increases, this increases resistance on the piston face when it lowers on the intake stroke.
If you look at engines the way I do, from a completely physical and mechanical sense you will realize that compression is always paired with a power stroke so it can't possibly be compression, it can't be friction because again, there's always a power stroke happening to counteract that. So whats left? Vacuum in the intake causing the pistons to do more work during the intake stroke.
And I won't even get into diesels and engine brakes, because they are very different.
you also have to remember that engine braking in higher gears is so low it's almost usless. High performance cars are no different than low performance cars in that respect, because the compression doesn't cause braking. They call it compression braking but its actualy the vacuum when the throttle closses that causes the braking effect.
I already explained all that to some people on the forums a while ago. I've driven road vehicles that will put your head into the steering if you let off the throttle to fast in a low gear, and these arn't exactly highly tuned engines with alot of compression.
As I said, heel-toe is not for using the engine to brake, If you ask a driver who does it they will tell you that the time you spend in each gear and the amount of braking you get is so minimal it won't help you any. If you use it to slow down on a fast corner where you don't need the brakes is a different story though. Thats how you save the brakes, not by engine braking in a low speed corner where you downshift 3+ times. The amount of engine braking you get in any gear over 2nd is usless, unless you have more than 10 gears and they are all realy low.
I don't know how LFS simulates engine braking, but if it isn't calculated by vacuum vs. Bore x Stroke it's wrong. A wider bore will mean more engine braking regardless of compression ratio.
I already explained all that to some people on the forums a while ago. I've driven road vehicles that will put your head into the steering if you let off the throttle to fast in a low gear, and these arn't exactly highly tuned engines with alot of compression.
As I said, heel-toe is not for using the engine to brake, If you ask a driver who does it they will tell you that the time you spend in each gear and the amount of braking you get is so minimal it won't help you any. If you use it to slow down on a fast corner where you don't need the brakes is a different story though. Thats how you save the brakes, not by engine braking in a low speed corner where you downshift 3+ times. The amount of engine braking you get in any gear over 2nd is usless, unless you have more than 10 gears and they are all realy low.
I don't know how LFS simulates engine braking, but if it isn't calculated by vacuum vs. Bore x Stroke it's wrong. A wider bore will mean more engine braking regardless of compression ratio.
If you can shorten the braking distance by engine braking, the car is set up wrong.
Brake balance on a race car is set up to get the most out of both the rear and front wheel's traction at all times, adding a braking force to the rear wheels isn't going to magicaly give them more grip.
Heel-toe is intended to keep the car in gear and balanced at all times, it actualy reduces engine braking. This way if you need power it's ready at all times. All you are doing is driving an H-pattern the same way you would drive a sequential.
Brake balance on a race car is set up to get the most out of both the rear and front wheel's traction at all times, adding a braking force to the rear wheels isn't going to magicaly give them more grip.
Heel-toe is intended to keep the car in gear and balanced at all times, it actualy reduces engine braking. This way if you need power it's ready at all times. All you are doing is driving an H-pattern the same way you would drive a sequential.
But it's not as simple as keeping it at the best RPM, there are alot of variables that arn't simulated by LFS that have to be before a CVT can be added. Unless the devs are going to add a formula 500 type car, that includes a 2 stroke engine, there isn't any point since even karts don't alow CVTs at the moment.
I think a CVT would be an interesting addition to LFS, but it would require alot of work to impliment mechanical CVTs properly. And Formula 500 uses mechanical CVTs
Mechanical CVTs don't just change ratio as the engine speeds up like many people think. If the engine is running at 7000rpm and still accelerating, the cvt will be at a different ratio than if the engine was at 7000rpm decelerating, this actualy lossens the belt, the ratio doesn't realy change much since the belt is still engaged, but its enough. you'd have to be able to figure out how the forces change inside the CVT's main hub to know what the ratio is going to be for a given engine speed/throttle position/vehicle speed. you'd also have to figure out the amount of slip there will be when you throttle off and during take off. The CVT belt acts as a clutch so you need to simulate it slipping.
As for hydralic CVTs, I can't think of one race class that uses them, they would be much easier to do, since they are computer controlled and actualy only change based on engine speed, vehicle speed and curtain conditions.
Mechanical CVTs don't just change ratio as the engine speeds up like many people think. If the engine is running at 7000rpm and still accelerating, the cvt will be at a different ratio than if the engine was at 7000rpm decelerating, this actualy lossens the belt, the ratio doesn't realy change much since the belt is still engaged, but its enough. you'd have to be able to figure out how the forces change inside the CVT's main hub to know what the ratio is going to be for a given engine speed/throttle position/vehicle speed. you'd also have to figure out the amount of slip there will be when you throttle off and during take off. The CVT belt acts as a clutch so you need to simulate it slipping.
As for hydralic CVTs, I can't think of one race class that uses them, they would be much easier to do, since they are computer controlled and actualy only change based on engine speed, vehicle speed and curtain conditions.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
These people make me sick, and they arn't just in demo so its realy sad.
I think they need to make some kind of config compare durring connection and every time you change setup. The server should check to see if your cars settings (brake force ect.) are within the normal limits, if not it kicks you out, and possibly forces you to log back in to play online. I was thinking of attempting to program something like this, but it needs to be integrated into LFS for it to be the most effective.
I think they need to make some kind of config compare durring connection and every time you change setup. The server should check to see if your cars settings (brake force ect.) are within the normal limits, if not it kicks you out, and possibly forces you to log back in to play online. I was thinking of attempting to program something like this, but it needs to be integrated into LFS for it to be the most effective.
I for one am glad I can join S2 servers that meet demo specs, It'll give me a chance to see what I'll be up against when I get S2.
I see this as an improvement not only because it makes demo users have to sign up, it will also unite the community and make for a better demo AND S series experiance. People are always complaining that there are more demo users than S users, well that was because people could just install the game. We are definately going to see less demo users when anything older becomes online incompatable.
When I get S2 you bet your hat I'll still be going back to demo servers, dispite the steriotype there are alot of good demo servers with alot of serious racers out there just waiting to get the money to buy S2. I myself have been on demo a LONG time, but every time I have the money, something else goes wrong that I need money to fix. Last time, it was my Graphics card, soon, it'll be my motorcycle. Can't play a game if you can't see it right?
I see this as an improvement not only because it makes demo users have to sign up, it will also unite the community and make for a better demo AND S series experiance. People are always complaining that there are more demo users than S users, well that was because people could just install the game. We are definately going to see less demo users when anything older becomes online incompatable.
When I get S2 you bet your hat I'll still be going back to demo servers, dispite the steriotype there are alot of good demo servers with alot of serious racers out there just waiting to get the money to buy S2. I myself have been on demo a LONG time, but every time I have the money, something else goes wrong that I need money to fix. Last time, it was my Graphics card, soon, it'll be my motorcycle. Can't play a game if you can't see it right?
They actualy teach you to put your thumbs up durring situations where the wheel could pull out of your hands, mostly on off roading though.
People who are new to off roading sometimes leave the first run with broken thumbs because they didn't listen to the warning.
People who are new to off roading sometimes leave the first run with broken thumbs because they didn't listen to the warning.
I just tested it for myself, It reminds me of driving with a visor that doesn't have glare protection.
I used to drive my motorbike with a helmet like that, not much fun when you can't see the ground because of the glare. I think it looks realistic in that sence.
I also didn't get any of that "radioactive" effect, I even turned up the bloom and it still didn't cause glowing edges.
I used to drive my motorbike with a helmet like that, not much fun when you can't see the ground because of the glare. I think it looks realistic in that sence.
I also didn't get any of that "radioactive" effect, I even turned up the bloom and it still didn't cause glowing edges.
you can get exposure like bloom without the radioactive part by just turning up the contrast and adjusting the brightness in your graphics card's settings.
The thing is, this accomplishes the same thing as HDR because normal monitors can NOT display HDR anyway, so any of that extra contrast it can render gets lost in the clipping the monitor's limited contrast ratio creates.
Just look at how the clouds become big white masses on the edges, the same thing happens in HDR games. The only thing HDR in games helps with is light going through glass and things, the extra calculations make for a nicer image, but it's still just as cliped.
The thing is, this accomplishes the same thing as HDR because normal monitors can NOT display HDR anyway, so any of that extra contrast it can render gets lost in the clipping the monitor's limited contrast ratio creates.
Just look at how the clouds become big white masses on the edges, the same thing happens in HDR games. The only thing HDR in games helps with is light going through glass and things, the extra calculations make for a nicer image, but it's still just as cliped.
As someone already mentioned, the road cars could still get the display, but it would be a simple version like a satnav system.
The "burnout" you are talking about is called a brake stand, all you have to do is rev the engine to 5000rpm with the clutch in, press the brakes, but not all the way. Release the clutch quickly and release the brakes untill the rear tires begin to spin (if its RWD). If it's front wheel drive, you just use the hand brake.
NEVER go above 5000rpm when you attempt to do this, it'll just burn up the clutch.
I would not suggest doing brake stands in a car unless you know how to use the clutch and brake pedal VERY well, you will most likely end up burning the clutch like this poor fool.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nl3_3WF-uE
I've never done brake stands in LFS, but I think setting the brake force to a realistic setting and then setting the balancing based on a real car would be the best way to do it. otherwhise it's either cheap or it won't happen.
I have done them in Racer though, in a modified AE86 I did up just to make fun of the drifters.
NEVER go above 5000rpm when you attempt to do this, it'll just burn up the clutch.
I would not suggest doing brake stands in a car unless you know how to use the clutch and brake pedal VERY well, you will most likely end up burning the clutch like this poor fool.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nl3_3WF-uE
I've never done brake stands in LFS, but I think setting the brake force to a realistic setting and then setting the balancing based on a real car would be the best way to do it. otherwhise it's either cheap or it won't happen.
I have done them in Racer though, in a modified AE86 I did up just to make fun of the drifters.
I've only ever been banned once on a demo server, the childish admin wanted to drag race me down the back straight, when I said no, he threatened to ban me so I said ok. Then he tried to act like he's pro or something and told me to move ahead a car lenght, I said no and got banned.
I really expect alot more from S2, and I take sim racing seriously, so when I buy it, I shoulden't get banned once.
I really expect alot more from S2, and I take sim racing seriously, so when I buy it, I shoulden't get banned once.
The veryon was built just to say "Look at us, we made the fastest road legal car!" It's handeling characteristics suck so badly, I woulden't be caught driving it if you payed me.
The thing was made to go in a line, turning isn't even considered in a car that can do 400km/h.
Show me a video of one beating something other than a ricer around a track. Then I'll change my mind.
The thing was made to go in a line, turning isn't even considered in a car that can do 400km/h.
Show me a video of one beating something other than a ricer around a track. Then I'll change my mind.
Have you ever actualy been rear ended in a vehicle with a manual gear box? My motorcycle over reved when I got rear ended by an ATV, we both whent flying down the path with my bike screaming its exhaust off untill I put the clutch in. It was still on its wheels infact, after the idiot hit the brakes, I had to stop to check to see if the motor was damaged. I don't think Honda intended this bike to do 40 in 1st gear.
I did a general lee skin for the XRT when it was still in the demo, no one bothered me. That flag is iconic on that car, and alot of americans would probably be more offended if you made the skin without it. 
Don't forget about the HD 2xxx series, they arn't bad either.
I have a P4 3.2ghz HT, 2gb of ram and an HD2600 512mb pro agp.
I get 60fps with 20 cars infront of me, thats also with high res track textures. At least I did, untill windows decided it didn't like my graphics card, now I can't play LFS at all.
The MR2 isn't a very good car when you take it to the shop, it can be quite expensive.
On the other hand, its a well balanced car, it'll handel like a champ.
MR configuration cars are usualy well balanced and make good cars for performance driving.
On the other hand, its a well balanced car, it'll handel like a champ.
MR configuration cars are usualy well balanced and make good cars for performance driving.
I hate to get technical but.
The human eye has a flicker fussion rate of around 50-75 depending on the person and some other variables such as brightness, This means that at that level things become completely smooth to the human eye. If you set your monitor below 50hz you will notice a flicker, thats because the frequency of the light pulses from your monitor are slow enough for your eyes to see the gap in between.
anything above it will not make a video look smoother, but it gives you more overhead just in case the FPS drops. The rate at which your eyes send the signal to your brain is much higher than you could ever hit with a computer screen so the "Frame rate" is well above any number you've ever heard anywhere.
The reason cartoon animation running at ~25fps looks smooth is because of the bluring effect of older tv screens, Interlacing also masks some of the stuttering you would normaly see. With progressive scan systems like DVD players and game systems the frame rate must hit at least 50fps for things to look remotely smooth, but because some people have a higher flicker fussion rate, you'd have to hit at least 75fps for everyone to not see it.
On a final note, the flicker fussion rate is because the rods and cones in your eyes don't deactivate right away. They stay active for a while after, so you get a sort of an internal bluring effect. This is more pronounced if the contrast is higher or the light is brighter. This is also why you see trails behind lights when you see them at night.
The human eye has a flicker fussion rate of around 50-75 depending on the person and some other variables such as brightness, This means that at that level things become completely smooth to the human eye. If you set your monitor below 50hz you will notice a flicker, thats because the frequency of the light pulses from your monitor are slow enough for your eyes to see the gap in between.
anything above it will not make a video look smoother, but it gives you more overhead just in case the FPS drops. The rate at which your eyes send the signal to your brain is much higher than you could ever hit with a computer screen so the "Frame rate" is well above any number you've ever heard anywhere.
The reason cartoon animation running at ~25fps looks smooth is because of the bluring effect of older tv screens, Interlacing also masks some of the stuttering you would normaly see. With progressive scan systems like DVD players and game systems the frame rate must hit at least 50fps for things to look remotely smooth, but because some people have a higher flicker fussion rate, you'd have to hit at least 75fps for everyone to not see it.
On a final note, the flicker fussion rate is because the rods and cones in your eyes don't deactivate right away. They stay active for a while after, so you get a sort of an internal bluring effect. This is more pronounced if the contrast is higher or the light is brighter. This is also why you see trails behind lights when you see them at night.
I played NFS U2 online for a while, and I was beating these poor people with a stock 240sx, they had all stage 3 upgrades, but coulden't drive worth a damn. They called me a hacker and woulden't race me after a fue races.
When I mean stock, I had a base car with a paint job, NO upgrades.
The car just seemed more realistic that way.
When I mean stock, I had a base car with a paint job, NO upgrades.
The car just seemed more realistic that way.
Combustion never stops in an engine unless you cut spark, which even on a computer controlled engine, never happens. Unless of course, you hit the rev limiter. This also means that friction is always overcome by a constant firing of the pistons. Fuel is always being injected, especialy in a carburated engine.
Engine braking is mainly manifold vacuum creating vacuum in the pistons, I can repeat that a thousand times and it'll be right every time.
Lets set up a concept. You have 2 engines, both at 1000cc. One is a wide bore short stroke engine, the other is a long stroke narrow bore. Both have 4 pistons, 250cc each piston. Both engines are connected to cars traveling side by side down the road in 1st gear at 7000rpm.
The wide bore engine has alot more surface area on the pistons even though the capacity is the same, this means that the vacuum from the closed throttle has more area to act on. This is what creates alot of engine braking.
Because both engines are operating at the same speeds provided the gearing is the same, both drivers release the throttle. What happens now is that the engines where operating at 7000rpm and now the throttle is set to go to idle, vacuum rises almost instantly and the engines decelerate quickly. Even though the gearing is the same, the wide bore engine will hit idle faster, because the vacuum has alot more surface area to act on. And provided the intake systems of both cars are the same, vacuum pressure will also be the same.
Engine braking on my Honda XR is high enough in first gear that it nearly threw me off a couple times. But I have 3 ratios between engine and wheel, so its alot different. I have a main step down ratio, internal transmission ratio, and then a final drive ratio.
Manifold vacuum is used to run alot of different things on your car, the brake booster is one of them.
On diesel engines, they either have a vacuum pump to run the brake booster and everything else running on vacuum, or they have some other way of providing power for those devices.
On diesel engines, they either have a vacuum pump to run the brake booster and everything else running on vacuum, or they have some other way of providing power for those devices.
Not realy to keen on adding to the madness, but I couldent resist the chance to say that WarRock was the worst FPS game I've ever played.
I was a medic at one point, I got shot to death, ran away and healed.
You read right, I DIED AND HEALED MYSELF BACK TO LIFE! The first thing I did after that was uninstall the game.
The net code is so bad that it didn't even register I was dead. The other guy got shot as well, and died almost a minute after his health reached 0
I was a medic at one point, I got shot to death, ran away and healed.
You read right, I DIED AND HEALED MYSELF BACK TO LIFE! The first thing I did after that was uninstall the game.
The net code is so bad that it didn't even register I was dead. The other guy got shot as well, and died almost a minute after his health reached 0
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG