Agreed, it woulden't be fair at all.
Realisim is the goal of this sim, I'm sure the only reason things haven't been limmited yet is because alot of tweaking is still being done.
It's still called the gear shift on most of the manuals I've read.
And gear selector would apply to manuals to, because you arn't actualy shifting gears around, you are selecting them by shifting rings around.
But that's not the point. Electronic or not, if the battery is out of power it won't make a difference, you can still shift to nutral.
It's possible on some cars you can't, but that would be a stupid move on any automakers part. None of the car's I've ever worked on had to be boosted before being moved. The battery is bad, we take it out, put the car in nutral. Push it into the shop and then we work from there. on most cars electronic just means that the shift points arn't done the old way, instead they use a computer to control it.
Even the tiptronic ones I've worked on had a shift linkage going to the transmission.
We had one car, a Benz I belive, that was parked outside the shop for a day. the battery was fried, and something else was wrong. But we where still able to put it in nutral and push it into the shop. My bosses reason for not boosting it was simple, he didn't want to.
And gear selector would apply to manuals to, because you arn't actualy shifting gears around, you are selecting them by shifting rings around.
But that's not the point. Electronic or not, if the battery is out of power it won't make a difference, you can still shift to nutral.
It's possible on some cars you can't, but that would be a stupid move on any automakers part. None of the car's I've ever worked on had to be boosted before being moved. The battery is bad, we take it out, put the car in nutral. Push it into the shop and then we work from there. on most cars electronic just means that the shift points arn't done the old way, instead they use a computer to control it.
Even the tiptronic ones I've worked on had a shift linkage going to the transmission.
We had one car, a Benz I belive, that was parked outside the shop for a day. the battery was fried, and something else was wrong. But we where still able to put it in nutral and push it into the shop. My bosses reason for not boosting it was simple, he didn't want to.
The one thing that will stand in the way for people who don't run lockable pressures later is the brake fade. When LFS develops to that point, having less than lockable brakes means that the brake force will go down even more as they heat up. So braking distance would increase even more. This would kill the people on keyboard.
I think braking force should be locked at a reasonable level, so that pressing the brake to the floor will lock them, but unfortunately for keyboard users, it would make it harder to play.
I drove with a cheap Nexxtech pedal set for almost a year and a half, and I was able to adapt myself to use the pedals well, even with the shakey readings.
I think braking force should be locked at a reasonable level, so that pressing the brake to the floor will lock them, but unfortunately for keyboard users, it would make it harder to play.
I drove with a cheap Nexxtech pedal set for almost a year and a half, and I was able to adapt myself to use the pedals well, even with the shakey readings.
Let's just get this back on topic, my system at work tells me one thing, and than people who actualy drive the cars tell me something different. I realy don't know what to belive now, especialy after the 1996 F350 page saying that TCC at WOT is an uncommon activation instruction.
I still don't know why they would sell kits to make it do it, if it already does it on its own. Thats what realy puzzles me about it, they even sell torque converters with bigger clutches to prevent slipping for racing applications.
On the note of the Hyundai. I wasn't talking about striping threads, I was talking about the oil filter, on the Hyundai I worked on, you had to lift the car, unscrew it, and than drop the car to take it out from the top. It was too big to fit past the sub frame from the bottom, and you coulden't unscrew it from the top. I can't remember what model it was, but I hated how close everything was, there was very little room to get tools into places they needed to go. It just seems that the enginers that designed it didn't think people would change the oil filter.
On topic now.
A DCT is something that would be interesting to see in LFS, It would make for some serious fun. (I know, I'm a demo player, so don't bother)
I think realistic autos wouldn't realy be worth the time though, It's just something else that would be cool for a bit, but because they are slower, even by half a second, people would just choose manual after the novelty wore off. The same woulden't happen for DCTs because only one or two cars would use them, I coulden't see an XRG with one, it would be pointless.
I still don't know why they would sell kits to make it do it, if it already does it on its own. Thats what realy puzzles me about it, they even sell torque converters with bigger clutches to prevent slipping for racing applications.
On the note of the Hyundai. I wasn't talking about striping threads, I was talking about the oil filter, on the Hyundai I worked on, you had to lift the car, unscrew it, and than drop the car to take it out from the top. It was too big to fit past the sub frame from the bottom, and you coulden't unscrew it from the top. I can't remember what model it was, but I hated how close everything was, there was very little room to get tools into places they needed to go. It just seems that the enginers that designed it didn't think people would change the oil filter.
On topic now.
A DCT is something that would be interesting to see in LFS, It would make for some serious fun. (I know, I'm a demo player, so don't bother)
I think realistic autos wouldn't realy be worth the time though, It's just something else that would be cool for a bit, but because they are slower, even by half a second, people would just choose manual after the novelty wore off. The same woulden't happen for DCTs because only one or two cars would use them, I coulden't see an XRG with one, it would be pointless.
Here in canada, they even have dummy labels on new vehicles that tell you these things. "Press brake to shift from park" or "Clutch must be applied to start engine" (we call them dummy labels because anyone with common sense should know this already)
Personaly, I think they are there for people that haven't driven cars before, like new drivers. But alot of them are retarded because you can't remove them, like the park sticker on my Express 3500, It's behind the clear plastic cover for the gauges, I'd have to take apart the dash to remove it, on top of that, its painted on.
I think there should be an overide on them, like on some automatics, you either press a button, or put the key in a slot, and it alows you to shift out of park. They should have a switch that overides the clutch switch, alowing you to operate the starter when ever you want.
It would have to reset after a short time though, because idiots would hit it and leave it on.
Personaly, I think they are there for people that haven't driven cars before, like new drivers. But alot of them are retarded because you can't remove them, like the park sticker on my Express 3500, It's behind the clear plastic cover for the gauges, I'd have to take apart the dash to remove it, on top of that, its painted on.
I think there should be an overide on them, like on some automatics, you either press a button, or put the key in a slot, and it alows you to shift out of park. They should have a switch that overides the clutch switch, alowing you to operate the starter when ever you want.
It would have to reset after a short time though, because idiots would hit it and leave it on.
hyundai is one company I didn't look at.
But I'm sure there's something else going on, passing gear comes to mind. But then agian, Hyundai are odd cars. After changing the oil on one I'v realized auto makers sometimes have lapses in judgement.
But I won't get into that.
edit: how did you judge that it was locking? did a diagnostic computer tell you?
I remember using a diagnostic computer a couple months ago to diagnose traction control problems and there was a TCC entry on screen as well, I didn't know what that was an abreviation for at the time, but I remember it never came on, and we where in a sunfire.
We put that thing through hell testing it, repeated WOT acceleration and than mashing on the brakes at 70+km/h
But I'm sure there's something else going on, passing gear comes to mind. But then agian, Hyundai are odd cars. After changing the oil on one I'v realized auto makers sometimes have lapses in judgement.
But I won't get into that.
edit: how did you judge that it was locking? did a diagnostic computer tell you?
I remember using a diagnostic computer a couple months ago to diagnose traction control problems and there was a TCC entry on screen as well, I didn't know what that was an abreviation for at the time, but I remember it never came on, and we where in a sunfire.
We put that thing through hell testing it, repeated WOT acceleration and than mashing on the brakes at 70+km/h
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
I just did a search on the database at work, It includes all of the parts of the cars it covers, maintance data and operating characteristics and data. It includes just about every model car you can think of from 82-05' years. Including trucks. It's an out dated version, but the information for the vehicles contained in the database is valid.
It even included a service statement about my dads current work vehicle. Aparantly, it jolts after a while when shifting from 2-3 or back 3-2.
I have to say, I was pretty amazed when I read the info about the lock-up clutch.
On every other vehicle it says it ONLY locks on cruising conditions, the only one that it says anything about locking at WOT was on the F350 Diesel, and only for one year I looked at, but I didn't check them all. All other models of car I looked at don't lock at WOT. On every other E40D and on the AODE transmission vehicles I looked at, the clutch only activates at cruising speeds above 60-70mph, set by Ford at the factory.
I looked at vehicles from Ford, Volvo, Chevy, GMC, Eagle, VW, Pontiac, Toyota, and Honda. I looked at all the vehicles you mentioned and all the vehicles I could think of that I've driven, or been a passenger in.
So yes, some do lock at WOT, but the Mustang doesn't without a kit that activates the solenoid.
With 90+GB of cars in the system I obviously coulden't check them all, and I can't post any of it because, 1. its at work, and 2. It's not legal to do so, or I would glady post every car I checked.
So in a way we both where right, and wrong. The only car that I found that does it without a switch mod installed is the F350 diesel, not even the gasoline F350 does it, I checked that.
That information was even in a special functions tab on the operational data tab, it states that the vehicle has that as a special function.
So vehicles that do this arn't common, and none of the F series I looked at that where made after 1998 locked at WOT, Diesel or Gasoline engine versions.
Also, the feeling of the converter clutch activating when on the highway is actualy stutter. Which there was a service advisory about for just about every car I'v ever felt it on, but I wasn't aware what caused it, lose rivets. There was even one for the F350. Seems to be a Ford issue since thats the only cars I'v ever felt it on, and the only ones that had the advisory included.
As for what I said about the toque converter "kicking" when you launch, it was only a speculation, because there's no TCC activation at a lauch, so anyone who says it locks then has to either have something wrong, or it's one of the clutches inside the transmission and the force is being felt as a jolt forward.
If a car locked the TCC at WOT lauch, it would stall the engine, or damage the clutch since it's not meant to be used like that. More likely it would damage it (not severly unless you did it alot). It is possible that when you slam the throttle, the torque converter will suddenly start transmitting torque, and it can be felt as a sudden jolt when the turbine starts spinning aswell.
belive me, I considered the possiblility that I could be wrong, Thats why I continued to gather information, but without someone giving me info about it in return, I'm not likely to belive them. If you request hard facts proving someones point, you should have already posted hard facts proving yours. Thats what I was attempting to do, but information about this is limited on the internet, I had to go and look at an official database to find useful info.
I was partly wrong, but I found it out using HARD FACT, not someone I don't know telling me "well, my car does it so all others should be the same."
The fact is, they arn't, when you said that vehicles that don't do it are rare, you had it backwards. There are only select models that lock the converter at WOT. Thats why they have kits to make the ones that don't do it, do it. And the kits come with a warning, you can burn out your clutch if you don't upgrade it. Obviously, your Ford had a clutch that was designed for it.
It even included a service statement about my dads current work vehicle. Aparantly, it jolts after a while when shifting from 2-3 or back 3-2.
I have to say, I was pretty amazed when I read the info about the lock-up clutch.
On every other vehicle it says it ONLY locks on cruising conditions, the only one that it says anything about locking at WOT was on the F350 Diesel, and only for one year I looked at, but I didn't check them all. All other models of car I looked at don't lock at WOT. On every other E40D and on the AODE transmission vehicles I looked at, the clutch only activates at cruising speeds above 60-70mph, set by Ford at the factory.
I looked at vehicles from Ford, Volvo, Chevy, GMC, Eagle, VW, Pontiac, Toyota, and Honda. I looked at all the vehicles you mentioned and all the vehicles I could think of that I've driven, or been a passenger in.
So yes, some do lock at WOT, but the Mustang doesn't without a kit that activates the solenoid.
With 90+GB of cars in the system I obviously coulden't check them all, and I can't post any of it because, 1. its at work, and 2. It's not legal to do so, or I would glady post every car I checked.
So in a way we both where right, and wrong. The only car that I found that does it without a switch mod installed is the F350 diesel, not even the gasoline F350 does it, I checked that.
That information was even in a special functions tab on the operational data tab, it states that the vehicle has that as a special function.
So vehicles that do this arn't common, and none of the F series I looked at that where made after 1998 locked at WOT, Diesel or Gasoline engine versions.
Also, the feeling of the converter clutch activating when on the highway is actualy stutter. Which there was a service advisory about for just about every car I'v ever felt it on, but I wasn't aware what caused it, lose rivets. There was even one for the F350. Seems to be a Ford issue since thats the only cars I'v ever felt it on, and the only ones that had the advisory included.
As for what I said about the toque converter "kicking" when you launch, it was only a speculation, because there's no TCC activation at a lauch, so anyone who says it locks then has to either have something wrong, or it's one of the clutches inside the transmission and the force is being felt as a jolt forward.
If a car locked the TCC at WOT lauch, it would stall the engine, or damage the clutch since it's not meant to be used like that. More likely it would damage it (not severly unless you did it alot). It is possible that when you slam the throttle, the torque converter will suddenly start transmitting torque, and it can be felt as a sudden jolt when the turbine starts spinning aswell.
belive me, I considered the possiblility that I could be wrong, Thats why I continued to gather information, but without someone giving me info about it in return, I'm not likely to belive them. If you request hard facts proving someones point, you should have already posted hard facts proving yours. Thats what I was attempting to do, but information about this is limited on the internet, I had to go and look at an official database to find useful info.
I was partly wrong, but I found it out using HARD FACT, not someone I don't know telling me "well, my car does it so all others should be the same."
The fact is, they arn't, when you said that vehicles that don't do it are rare, you had it backwards. There are only select models that lock the converter at WOT. Thats why they have kits to make the ones that don't do it, do it. And the kits come with a warning, you can burn out your clutch if you don't upgrade it. Obviously, your Ford had a clutch that was designed for it.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
I talked to my boss about this today, He's worked for several auto makers, such as Honda. And he basicaly confermed my statement, the TCC WILL NOT lock when the TPS (throttle position sensor) reads 100%. For it to lock the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) would have to report a speed of 255mph.
you wanted a table, here's a table.
please note that even though a cars dash reads in km/h all the sensors still report in MPH, its a standard for OBD-II
This is a chart from a standard mapping, I don't know what car it came from, or what software is displaying it. but this is what my boss told me to find. He will probably give me another one from a Civic or something when I ask him tomorow.
Edit: it's from a 93' Firebird Ramjet
Also, this is only for mapping one of the conditions, the others are that the vehicle is traveling with relatively steady throttle, and the transmission fluid temp is above 70ºF thats what your information is saying GobLox. If you read the related information about the vehicle you took that from (a ford since I looked at the same page) you'd realize that it doesn't say anywhere it locks at 100%.
When I said there isn't an in between for Locked-Unlocked, I meant it never lets it slip for any amount of time, it will still smoothely apply it though. It would be pretty harsh if it just jamed it on in an instant. You still feel it on some cars though.
If you are traveling on the highway and you plant the trottle, you will feel the kick down from the transmisson, or if you where previously cruising, you will feel it unlock. I don't know what causes the "locking" feeling that people described at 100% throttle from a stand still, but it definatley isn't the clutch locking. It could be the torque converter "kicking" in, but the only vehicle that I've ever felt that on was my aunt's car, it tended to just kick forward when you hit the throttle hard. However, it never locked the torque converter unless you where on the highway, you could feel the difference. My aunts car is a Ford Escort station wagon
For the particular car the data I have is from, you'd have to be going at least 53mph for it to lock.
As for AODE transmissions, on high performance builds they are modified to lock up at WOT.
My dads 96' E150 never locked the Torque converter unless it was on the highway, and it had an E40D transmission.
you wanted a table, here's a table.
please note that even though a cars dash reads in km/h all the sensors still report in MPH, its a standard for OBD-II
This is a chart from a standard mapping, I don't know what car it came from, or what software is displaying it. but this is what my boss told me to find. He will probably give me another one from a Civic or something when I ask him tomorow.
Edit: it's from a 93' Firebird Ramjet
Also, this is only for mapping one of the conditions, the others are that the vehicle is traveling with relatively steady throttle, and the transmission fluid temp is above 70ºF thats what your information is saying GobLox. If you read the related information about the vehicle you took that from (a ford since I looked at the same page) you'd realize that it doesn't say anywhere it locks at 100%.
When I said there isn't an in between for Locked-Unlocked, I meant it never lets it slip for any amount of time, it will still smoothely apply it though. It would be pretty harsh if it just jamed it on in an instant. You still feel it on some cars though.
If you are traveling on the highway and you plant the trottle, you will feel the kick down from the transmisson, or if you where previously cruising, you will feel it unlock. I don't know what causes the "locking" feeling that people described at 100% throttle from a stand still, but it definatley isn't the clutch locking. It could be the torque converter "kicking" in, but the only vehicle that I've ever felt that on was my aunt's car, it tended to just kick forward when you hit the throttle hard. However, it never locked the torque converter unless you where on the highway, you could feel the difference. My aunts car is a Ford Escort station wagon
For the particular car the data I have is from, you'd have to be going at least 53mph for it to lock.
As for AODE transmissions, on high performance builds they are modified to lock up at WOT.
My dads 96' E150 never locked the Torque converter unless it was on the highway, and it had an E40D transmission.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
during full throttle the torque converter can reach a high enough pressure to transfer close to 90% of the power, thats the point of having it. It can feel like it locked, but it actualy didn't.
The point of having a locking clutch in the torque converter is to solve the power loss issue with low throttle driving. When you cruise on the highway, you usualy arn't applying enough throttle for the torque converter to run at full capacity. If the clutch locked when you snaped on the throttle it would be like dumping the clutch on a standard car and you would eventualy wear it out. It's not designed to operate like a clutch on a standard car, it just goes ON-OFF, there is no in-between.
As I stated, the TCC only activates when the pump and turbine speeds are running at close to the same speed. And you probably didn't realize that the article I qouted said electronicaly controlled, meaning it's on newer vehicles which have computers to determine when the clutch engages. On older systems it was operated by a valve assembly inside the transmission.
Custom built muscle cars and the like will have modified the system to lock when the throttle is opened because they want maximum power transmission through the converter, however, this leads to jerky shifts because the converter won't unlock untill the pedal is released. The same thing applys for when you are cruising, the lock up stays untill you either accelerate hard, or release the gas momentaraly.
An extra qoute from information about torque converters on an auto repair site.
"The TCC:
The purpose of the Transmission Converter Clutch (TCC) feature is to eliminate the power loss of the torque converter stage when the vehicle is in a cruise mode. The TCC System uses a solenoid-operated valve to couple the engine flywheel to the output shaft of the transmission through the torque converter. Lockup reduces slippage in the converter increasing fuel economy. For the converter clutch to apply, two conditions must be met:
The point of having a locking clutch in the torque converter is to solve the power loss issue with low throttle driving. When you cruise on the highway, you usualy arn't applying enough throttle for the torque converter to run at full capacity. If the clutch locked when you snaped on the throttle it would be like dumping the clutch on a standard car and you would eventualy wear it out. It's not designed to operate like a clutch on a standard car, it just goes ON-OFF, there is no in-between.
As I stated, the TCC only activates when the pump and turbine speeds are running at close to the same speed. And you probably didn't realize that the article I qouted said electronicaly controlled, meaning it's on newer vehicles which have computers to determine when the clutch engages. On older systems it was operated by a valve assembly inside the transmission.
Custom built muscle cars and the like will have modified the system to lock when the throttle is opened because they want maximum power transmission through the converter, however, this leads to jerky shifts because the converter won't unlock untill the pedal is released. The same thing applys for when you are cruising, the lock up stays untill you either accelerate hard, or release the gas momentaraly.
An extra qoute from information about torque converters on an auto repair site.
"The TCC:
The purpose of the Transmission Converter Clutch (TCC) feature is to eliminate the power loss of the torque converter stage when the vehicle is in a cruise mode. The TCC System uses a solenoid-operated valve to couple the engine flywheel to the output shaft of the transmission through the torque converter. Lockup reduces slippage in the converter increasing fuel economy. For the converter clutch to apply, two conditions must be met:
- Internal transmission fluid pressure must be correct.
- The ECM must complete a ground circuit to energize the TCC solenoid that moves a check ball in the fluid line. This allows the converter clutch to apply, when hydraulic pressure is correct.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
If your car locks the TCC at wide open throttle there could be a problem, possibly a heat issue. If you do alot of steady driving on uphill areas it will lock to prevent the transmission from overheating though.
"The torque converter clutch is an electronic clutch that will engage the engine and drivetrain 100 percent. The TCC is made to engage usually only in the top gear when the car is cruising, not accelerating. The lock up converter will disengage when the accelerator is pressed hard enough." - qouted from an article about locking torque converters.
And one from a racing site
"Lock up stock style converters. These are usually 12" converters that have a lock up clutch in them. Modified versions can have a stall speed of 2600-2800 rpm, depending on the construction. The lockup clutch is engaged under light throttle situations (cruise), which allows for greater efficiency, less heat generation and slightly better mpg. When racing, you can lock the clutch under WOT with a switch or with a race chip. This practice will gain about a tenth in the 1/4, but will eventually wear out the clutch."
"The torque converter clutch is an electronic clutch that will engage the engine and drivetrain 100 percent. The TCC is made to engage usually only in the top gear when the car is cruising, not accelerating. The lock up converter will disengage when the accelerator is pressed hard enough." - qouted from an article about locking torque converters.
And one from a racing site
"Lock up stock style converters. These are usually 12" converters that have a lock up clutch in them. Modified versions can have a stall speed of 2600-2800 rpm, depending on the construction. The lockup clutch is engaged under light throttle situations (cruise), which allows for greater efficiency, less heat generation and slightly better mpg. When racing, you can lock the clutch under WOT with a switch or with a race chip. This practice will gain about a tenth in the 1/4, but will eventually wear out the clutch."
They still lose power, and in racing, thats what's going to kill you.
Most automatic production cars I've worked on are considerably less powerfull than there manual transmission counterparts. They just don't have the get up and go like a manual. And locking the torque converter only happens during cruising, during hard acceleration it remains unlocked.
Lock-up usualy only occures when the turbine is spinning close to 90% of the speed of the pump, so it coulden't possibly lock when accelerating since the pump is always going to be spinning faster durring acceleration.
Most automatic production cars I've worked on are considerably less powerfull than there manual transmission counterparts. They just don't have the get up and go like a manual. And locking the torque converter only happens during cruising, during hard acceleration it remains unlocked.
Lock-up usualy only occures when the turbine is spinning close to 90% of the speed of the pump, so it coulden't possibly lock when accelerating since the pump is always going to be spinning faster durring acceleration.
The only thing that adding realistic automatics would do is slow down the people who use it to rediculous speeds.
For one thing, an automatic shifts at around 4.5-5k rpm.
And second, the power loss from the torque converter would just kill the acceleration, most noticable would be in the XRG, the thing would drive like a golf cart.
For one thing, an automatic shifts at around 4.5-5k rpm.
And second, the power loss from the torque converter would just kill the acceleration, most noticable would be in the XRG, the thing would drive like a golf cart.
Thats pointless, unless thats ALOT of people owning those. Can't imagine what his/her maintance bill is, never mind the insurance.
If I was rich, I'd have a 1982 Datsun 280zx special edition, with that feminine voice that tells you if there's a problem, now thats classy.
"fuel level is low"
"driver door is open"
If I was rich, I'd have a 1982 Datsun 280zx special edition, with that feminine voice that tells you if there's a problem, now thats classy.
"fuel level is low"
"driver door is open"
I think you are right lizardfolk, perverted is a better word.
I don't think anyone here would realy want to see an example though.
basicaly, I see it as this.
Looking at it from my point of view, my first thaught about furries when I first saw them was "holy crap, these people are perverts"
But after a while I started meeting people online on deviantart that are furries, and they arn't all perverted. I talked to ones that are in it just because they didn't want to be known on the internet as themselves. They wanted a cool character to represent them online.
I personaly chose to be known as what I am, human. But I'm not against people that use animals or fantacy creatures to represent them.
I don't think anyone here would realy want to see an example though.
basicaly, I see it as this.
Looking at it from my point of view, my first thaught about furries when I first saw them was "holy crap, these people are perverts"
But after a while I started meeting people online on deviantart that are furries, and they arn't all perverted. I talked to ones that are in it just because they didn't want to be known on the internet as themselves. They wanted a cool character to represent them online.
I personaly chose to be known as what I am, human. But I'm not against people that use animals or fantacy creatures to represent them.
my case temp always stays around 40ºc.
my cpu can get up to 65ºc under 100 percent load on both threads.
I have a 3.2ghz prescott with hyper threading. Not the fastest, but it was one of the fastest P4s ever made. after that I'm going quad core, hopefully with hyper threading. (8 threads!)
my cpu can get up to 65ºc under 100 percent load on both threads.
I have a 3.2ghz prescott with hyper threading. Not the fastest, but it was one of the fastest P4s ever made. after that I'm going quad core, hopefully with hyper threading. (8 threads!)
I think posting a link to something that shows just how sick and discusting furry art can get is against LFS's forum rules.
If not, I'm sure someone can find something as an example, I REALY don't want to though.
Oh I've heard of it, I've heard of or seen all manner of fetishes.
Some of them don't make sence and leave you
. others are completely apauling.{lizardfolk's images}
Those are furries of the clean kind.
Those are furries of the clean kind.
@lizardfolk
If it exists, people get off on it somehow, I learned that very quickly when I started posting and viewing artwork on the web.
I've basicaly desencitized myself to it, so it doesn't bother me that much. As an artist I can't avoid it because if I completely restrict myself to deviantart, which is safe from it, I don't see alot of the good artists because some of them are furrys, just not the perverted ones. And alot of people seem to hate Deviantart as well, and even though they arn't furries, they go to furry sites beliveing that they have more freedom there.
Another thing that realy pisses me off is that you get realy good artists drawing that garbage, and its a complete waste of good talent. They can draw realy well, and make amazing works of art, and than they just go and draw something like that and it leaves you going "WHAT THE F*** IS THIS!"
If it exists, people get off on it somehow, I learned that very quickly when I started posting and viewing artwork on the web.
I've basicaly desencitized myself to it, so it doesn't bother me that much. As an artist I can't avoid it because if I completely restrict myself to deviantart, which is safe from it, I don't see alot of the good artists because some of them are furrys, just not the perverted ones. And alot of people seem to hate Deviantart as well, and even though they arn't furries, they go to furry sites beliveing that they have more freedom there.
Another thing that realy pisses me off is that you get realy good artists drawing that garbage, and its a complete waste of good talent. They can draw realy well, and make amazing works of art, and than they just go and draw something like that and it leaves you going "WHAT THE F*** IS THIS!"
datsun 280zx
http://www.americandreamcars.com/1981280zxturbo092006.htm
Now this is a car.
My dad used to have one, it wasn't turbo if I remember correctly. But it was a manual 2 seater version. The 2 seater is nicer than the 2+2 one.
This car even had a voice system instead of a buzzer for warnings.
It would tell you if your door was open, or if you needed to get fuel.
http://www.americandreamcars.com/1981280zxturbo092006.htm
Now this is a car.
My dad used to have one, it wasn't turbo if I remember correctly. But it was a manual 2 seater version. The 2 seater is nicer than the 2+2 one.
This car even had a voice system instead of a buzzer for warnings.
It would tell you if your door was open, or if you needed to get fuel.
for the money you pay for a PS3 you can upgrade your computer to have better specs than it.
I compared my specs to the PS3 and 360 and my computer still has more raw computing power than either of them, and my WHOLE computer only cost me around $900 canadian after the last upgrades (about $200 during boxing day)
I compared my specs to the PS3 and 360 and my computer still has more raw computing power than either of them, and my WHOLE computer only cost me around $900 canadian after the last upgrades (about $200 during boxing day)
yes the fumes are hazardous. It can cause cancer, I would avoid breathing it if I where you.
It was so much better when games ran directly on hardware. like doom, duke nukem3d and the like, as long as you had the hardware, you could play it. The only thing that needed drivers was your mouse and CD rom drive (sometimes).
It doesn't matter, it's still discusting.
And thats not the first time I've seen an image like that, and unfortunately, it probably won't be the last.
people that just come online to browse facebook, go on msn, or play LFS don't see the crap that floats around art communitys.
Furries get banned from Deviantart on a regular basis because they post stuff like this. And it's not like DA can do anything to prevent it from happening, they can't do anything untill it actualy gets seen by people who report it.
And thats not the first time I've seen an image like that, and unfortunately, it probably won't be the last.
people that just come online to browse facebook, go on msn, or play LFS don't see the crap that floats around art communitys.
Furries get banned from Deviantart on a regular basis because they post stuff like this. And it's not like DA can do anything to prevent it from happening, they can't do anything untill it actualy gets seen by people who report it.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
I hope not, I've seen some freaky crap that I'd rather not see again.
The problem is, once you see something, you can't un-see it.
The problem is, once you see something, you can't un-see it.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG