I have very good races with some people I know well and respect highly 
some of which are awsome drifters also 
and I respect them for that, one guy I race often has shown me replays of him doing some of the best drifting I've ever seen 
I don't have any problem whatsoever with drifting, as long as there is respect 
I don't go to a drift server and try too race, so I expect the same in return... having said that if I was on the server when you asked if it's ok to drift a few laps, and there was nothing happening at the time, I'd have no problem with it... so yes it's a common courtesy issue.
some of which are awsome drifters also and I respect them for that, one guy I race often has shown me replays of him doing some of the best drifting I've ever seen I don't have any problem whatsoever with drifting, as long as there is respect I don't go to a drift server and try too race, so I expect the same in return... having said that if I was on the server when you asked if it's ok to drift a few laps, and there was nothing happening at the time, I'd have no problem with it... so yes it's a common courtesy issue.
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Well m8 if that's the case it's just a matter of you not really being all that familiar with how things go... some of us have been here for quite some time and have ESP for things like that
don't worry about it so much, just keep connecting, racing with folks and generally keep your nose cleen till you meet and get to know more people Like Tweak says take a chill pill, he didn't mean it in a nasty way, he's been here a very long time 
behave like him and you will find yourself well accepted in the community 
My advice is always flow with whats happening in the server (racing certain car, practising, chatting whatever) if it's not what you want say goodnight and find another server that is doing what you want, if you can't find one then try entering an empty one and see if others connect if that fails come back another night...Well then you have seen and learned something very important
don't be a follower be someone who sets an example of higher standards then you will attract and be attracted to the right sort of racers in the community 
and will enjoy your time here much more if you just sink to the lowest denominator you want win respect from other racers. I.e. treat others the way you want to be treated and things will go much smoother. Respect and you will be respected, what more could you ask for? 
In situations like you discribe I park on the side of the track awaiting the next restart, if people are just intent on fooling around I'll spectate until the next restart or do some practise driving as I always have room too improve 
Again as you become more well known arround the servers you want find it so hard to get a race BTW I don't judge you by how you post we don't always type what we are actually wanting to say, sometimes it is from frustration or we've had a tough day, etc. I've been know to be abit brash at times too Anyway stick at it, just realise that you want get the greatest racing of your life every time you join a server or every race
but it certainly is worth sticking at it, becasue when you do hit some good racing, there's nothing that can compare with it Well what I mean is that if you remain calm when someone cuts you off or does something else you generally don't like on the motorway, why is it so hard for you to go with the flow on public servers?
You can't force people to behave exactly how you want, they're not computer simulated drivers, their real people
so some will race for several races in a row then want to chill, which could mean chat or it could mean do a few laps of practise, roll a smoke or any other number of things, so why is it such a problem if a race isn't restarted in the next 5 minutes? If you have limited time and really just want to race, but see that more than 50% of the people aren't in a hurry to restart, just say goodnight to all on that server and go to another server thats what I do in such situations, I don't kick up a huge fuss over nothing... I agree sometimes it's hard to find servers with people that want to race, but you will find even when people are hotlapping and such, it doesn't always mean they don't want to race but perhaps are just waiting to see what level of racers join the server before they choose to race with them... once you get to know a few people and they know you drive fairly, you will have no trouble whatsoever finding someone to race with Basicly what my point is "if you want to be respected you must first show respect of others"
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Richy you've made me curious 
how do you behave when someone cuts you off on the motorway? Does it bother you, or do you remain calm and drive on normally?
how do you behave when someone cuts you off on the motorway? Does it bother you, or do you remain calm and drive on normally? well that ruined that ah well :homersimp DOH! Thats a wee bit hash in my opinion
illepall even in real life if you breach copy write they will only pursue you if you are making a profit from it and will normally issue at least one warning before taking it to court Your suggesting we act as judge and executioner in one fowl swoop there is possibly many that do this without even understanding what they do Also in life you may automatically have copy write, but it's another matter to enforce that copy write (which is probably why they have patents)
If your oponent has more money, resources and contacts than you The law may be just, but it doesn't always garrantee justice 
The world is full of injustices the type of person you become in old age depends on how you cope with those injustices in life 
It shouldn't be an issue of copy write at all it's an issue of respect for others property, and as people become more familiar with the community they will no dought respect each other and as a consequence respect the property of others, to bash people over the head with legal threats of breach of copy write doesn't do you any good for you or the community imho It is only a skin! And if thats all you've got to make a fuss over then you need to be mighty thankfull, cause your obviously better off than the majority of people in this world
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A slightly better version would be to say what you said but in the context of room mates
in which case it is polite to ask permission to use your roommates jeans or that cool shirt but even if you didn't, it's not a travisty and would be considered rude at worst and how each room mate reacted to the situation would simply be a reflection of their personality, beliefs, etc. I don't personally use other peoples skins and if someone used mine it wouldn't bother me In the situation you dicribed I'd just say "sorry m8 want do it again." and carry on, if they still have a beef with that then it's their problem not yours
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Well you have a very broad experience in the feel of the community , and I've noticed your quick to say you will pawn people on the track so I would think you would have a well rounded overall view of LFS and have alot you could write about +1 for tristancliffe
for the same reasons Orion sited +1 for Gunn
Never seen him post anything that I would think even remotely out of orderillepall and find the great majority of his posts very constructive and informative , the remainder are well just light humour and always in the same tone and manner of the thread he posts in.
As for the sound, I like the sound engine, but the overall sound experience has alot of room for improvement which is good it gives us more to look forward too
Never seen him post anything that I would think even remotely out of order
illepall and find the great majority of his posts very constructive and informative , the remainder are well just light humour and always in the same tone and manner of the thread he posts in.As for the sound, I like the sound engine, but the overall sound experience has alot of room for improvement
which is good it gives us more to look forward too
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I thought jeez "their" starting an intense campaign of posting once a week (it seems) for Pogress Reports Phew good to see you guys have humour also P.s. I nearly didn't look at the thread but in the end couldn't help myself
so I guess that makes us all human Maybe he just got pissed off at the thread being hijacked
No really I can understand how he thinks LFS is past its prime PC years are much faster than human years so 4 years in development in PC years is probably equivelent to 30 - 40 years of human development so LFS is over 30 years old in PC terms, a little over the hill don't you think?
No no really, each to his own, LFS isn't for everyone but it is for me and I know I'll still be here in 1 years time and 2 years and... well you get it
No really I can understand how he thinks LFS is past its prime
PC years are much faster than human years so 4 years in development in PC years is probably equivelent to 30 - 40 years of human development so LFS is over 30 years old in PC terms, a little over the hill don't you think? No no really, each to his own, LFS isn't for everyone
but it is for me and I know I'll still be here in 1 years time and 2 years and... well you get it And when you take into account the extra charges banks charge you for the conversion its even more
if you pay via credit card the real cost is closer to AUD $60.00 I bought GTR out of a sale bin for AUD $50.00
but ask me is LFS worth it? Most definately! I've played GTR for a sum total of about 3 hrs and LFS I've been playing several times a week for 2 years you do the math No other racing game or sim has got anymore than 3 to 6 weeks of interest out of me and most of the others I've bought which are too numerous to mention were mostly at AUD $89.00 and most of the others I shared with my old man, with LFS I bought him a license too
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It's actually AUD $56.4937 as I post
Hence why modern fighter jets are fly by wire and many of them interprute what the human inputs are and often even make corrections for wrong ones
Also modern fighters are actually made "unstable" so they can be more manuverable, they are infact so unstable that humans can't control them! and computers must do it... so when it comes to response times modern computers leave us for dead In the automotive arena there even talking of computers driving cars, sighting that it will give far more effiecient traffic flow because why? because they can react faster and more reliabely than humans
but oh how boring that will be read a newspaper while your car drives you to work, and if you try too speed the car takes over from you saying "input error changing to autopilot" LOLOh and as a side note to all the joypad detractors - you do realise that joysticks will eventually replace steering wheels don't you
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I think you can still see the Lic name by Shift + Ctrl in the replay also
so report him to the server admin and even the developers if you've got the evidence Yep you are right demo certainly can be a horror
but it still can give some very good racing if you bump into the right people Fusion svr is normally pretty good and CRC have a server up at the moment, both have admins and normally can get some good races there when it is admined I have some replays from demo some of which represent the worst of LFS and some the best of LFS But wouldn't you have to apply the force towards the center of the vitual world? Not just straight down relative to car. So still requires vectoring, so some potential to get it wrong
Well Ok then
The reason I questioned Vic? is because... well, XCNurse being such an upright and longstanding member of the LFS community might know something I didn't
Like maybe Scawen's other half finaly put her foot down and said "Right then Scawen! You make a choice finish this @%# kitchen or I'm out of here! and while your at it finish the rest of the house like you've been promising for the laast 3 %#$% years!"
And as a consequence he had to hand over some of the progamming resposibilities to Vic, bless Vic for coming to the rescue, was tough going for him though as it is quite abit of work to get up too speed with programming and were Scawen is thus far...
Oh how one innocent little mistake
can lead a thread so far off topic LOLThats easy for you too say, you still probably got some brain cells left! Not all of us are so lucky
No I agree no traction controll or other aids... thats what makes it a challenge, but if they did have such things then I would want to see server otptions that could allow or disallow it
Thx m8 gave me a good laugh
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I use an xbox controller (joypad) and these are the settings: (will post them just incase another joypad user is looking for help)
In the Car setup - I generally change the Max Steering Lock to about 16, and maybe bring the Brake Bias forward 1 point from the standard WR sets don't really touch anything else.
In the Options undrer Controller settings - I set Wheel Turn to 180, Wheel Turn Compensation to 0.30, Remove Deadzones to Yes and under the Misc section I set Analog Steer Smooth to 0.6.
These settings work well for me I can normally get within 2 seconds of the WR time on any car track after a few laps and with abit of practise reduce that down to 1 second or so... and I'm an old fart so any youngens should be able to do better
[edit]It's the original large (easier to hold than the later smaller ones) controller, which has 6 analog axis(two analog 2 axis ministicks and 2 analog triggers), 10 buttons and a 4 way digital controller. The settings I suggest are for the analog steering to help reduce the sensitivity without sacrificing precsion. I use the two analog triggers for brake/throttle. Just use these settings as a start point and change to your own taste with your particular controller.[/edit]
In the Car setup - I generally change the Max Steering Lock to about 16, and maybe bring the Brake Bias forward 1 point from the standard WR sets don't really touch anything else.
In the Options undrer Controller settings - I set Wheel Turn to 180, Wheel Turn Compensation to 0.30, Remove Deadzones to Yes and under the Misc section I set Analog Steer Smooth to 0.6.
These settings work well for me
I can normally get within 2 seconds of the WR time on any car track after a few laps and with abit of practise reduce that down to 1 second or so... and I'm an old fart so any youngens should be able to do better [edit]It's the original large (easier to hold than the later smaller ones) controller, which has 6 analog axis(two analog 2 axis ministicks and 2 analog triggers), 10 buttons and a 4 way digital controller. The settings I suggest are for the analog steering to help reduce the sensitivity without sacrificing precsion. I use the two analog triggers for brake/throttle. Just use these settings as a start point and change to your own taste with your particular controller.[/edit]
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I agree with Tristan in that I think the tyre model is very good as it is, aside from the obvious low speed grip issue...
I have read race drivers comments that driving at the limit does feel very much like the average person would expect driving on a wet road to feel, when you are near the limits of traction it doesn't take much to over do it our main problem and the problem of all sims is the lack of seat of pants feel which often makes us slow to react in a sim.
Having said that I do think there is some small issues at the limit which affects handling, and if I was to take a punt at what it would be I'd say [I "think" that the changes in the slip angles between front and rear tyres and even left and right tyres has a small issue when the tyres are in the different states (grip, tread walking, no grip - I don't know proper terms), which affects the handling of the cars at the limit also how slip angles are affected differently between the free rotaing wheels and driven wheels]. But I have every confidence Scawen will be able to identify any areas that need improvement and then come up with away to do it. It's hard for us to identify as we simply don't have the information or tools necessary to determine anything useful (without scientifc test instruments any observations we make are still very subjective and therefore most likely flawed) Scawen does have or is able to get the necessary tools and info though as he is able to code tools (tyre test rig) and can obtain data to compare it too.
I don't actually see the current tyre model as having bugs but as improve it a little more and it will go from being awsome to absolutely awsome and that's why I look forward to the next physics patch
Now as for S3 tyre models I look forward to seeing brake heat simulated (which heats the tyres) and the current tyre heat model revisited, also more refinement in the differences between the treaded tyres and slicks (e.g. how dirt sticks to different tyre types and how the different tyres react in the transition phases of grip to loss of traction, also I guess the relationship between lateral and longitudinal grip [traction circle] would vary for different tyre types also) and then there is the track
I have read race drivers comments that driving at the limit does feel very much like the average person would expect driving on a wet road to feel, when you are near the limits of traction it doesn't take much to over do it
our main problem and the problem of all sims is the lack of seat of pants feel which often makes us slow to react in a sim.Having said that I do think there is some small issues at the limit which affects handling, and if I was to take a punt at what it would be I'd say [I "think" that the changes in the slip angles between front and rear tyres and even left and right tyres has a small issue when the tyres are in the different states (grip, tread walking, no grip - I don't know proper terms), which affects the handling of the cars at the limit also how slip angles are affected differently between the free rotaing wheels and driven wheels]. But I have every confidence Scawen will be able to identify any areas that need improvement and then come up with away to do it. It's hard for us to identify as we simply don't have the information or tools necessary to determine anything useful
(without scientifc test instruments any observations we make are still very subjective and therefore most likely flawed) Scawen does have or is able to get the necessary tools and info though as he is able to code tools (tyre test rig) and can obtain data to compare it too.I don't actually see the current tyre model as having bugs
but as improve it a little more and it will go from being awsome to absolutely awsome and that's why I look forward to the next physics patch Now as for S3 tyre models
I look forward to seeing brake heat simulated (which heats the tyres) and the current tyre heat model revisited, also more refinement in the differences between the treaded tyres and slicks (e.g. how dirt sticks to different tyre types and how the different tyres react in the transition phases of grip to loss of traction, also I guess the relationship between lateral and longitudinal grip [traction circle] would vary for different tyre types also) and then there is the track
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puplic as in public servers are full of young pups you did that on purpose didn't you! LOL I've got a puppy at the moment and she's an absolute terror!
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It has happened to a number of people I know
I fear it is quite normal I think it's dificult for like minded racers to link up sometimes, and can be very frustrating trying to get a good race in a server full of over zelous racers that keep driving beyond their limits
It is a real pleasure though racing against individuals that while they race fast and agrressive they remain curteous and considerate of their fellow races and remain within there driving abilities, unfortunately that doesn't happen on every excursion into LFS I feel there is a need for something in between league races and public races... Sad to hear another good racer going by the way side
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG