Quote from Starion83 :

That particular patch you've linked to is for a different problem, its if you cant get your wheel's center position to line up to the game's center position to start with...

Actually the centering fix was specifically desingned to solve the problem of "wandering center" during gameplay. Without the patch I had to move the steering wheel to its extremes to recenter. This can a be a little difficult to do in a middle of a race Within five minutes of making many small steering inputs the center started to go of centerline and the small utility helped to fix it.

Your problem may have anouther cause since it has started after a few years. My wandering center problem was right there from the beginning.

Isn't that wheel the Momo Racing? Anyways Momo Racing had the same problem. It was cured using a "centering" patch. Are you sure you're using the latest drivers, not just the drivers that came with the wheel?

Check the fix from here
http://www.wingmanteam.com/lat ... r%20Adjustment%20Utility:

Edit: I just read the rest of your post.. and the fix didn't fudge my controls, they worked really well. Then again, when I was using the centering fix I probably had older drivers than the current one.

It's not something previously used in computer wheels. It's certainly not belt driven and I don't think its even gear driven. Shige just replied that you can't even turn the wheel when it's in its 100% strength

Something industrial range is in its innards. We'll soon find out I guess. It's said to be patended worldwide so anyone willing to search for it in the patent office?

"That will not used a Gear nor Belt.
I faced limitation of the gear and belt because of their backlash, noise, loose, energy loss, too much complicated...... I knew that is not a suitable mechanism even if we tried most expensive planetary gears.

Mysterious?
Yes, the company also supprised the usage of the mechanism never used like that he said in spite of who is a industrial leader of Factory Automation"

"I confirmed this is a innovation design and aware necessity of take Patent because we confirmed it is only a mechanism that can realize real car wheel feeling that is not available so far. No backlash, No grindy feel, quiet, multi turn, mechanically adjustable lock to lock, hi efficiency, can install upside down for formula type tub, slim shape ....."

You can not turn in corner with 25cm Wheel with 100% power setting.

We couldn't get good price depend on our previous design which needed to use expensive unit inside.
So we had started redesign the internal mechanism built into plate and frames of the wheel unit has same mechanism by each functional parts built together.
Functionally, out looking are same nothing has changed.
We will start test on the new one very soon.
The new mechanism let get the price down a lot.
But still many expensive parts we have to use into the unit to realize the real steering feel but getting closer to the price for the market not only for a enthusiast or research laboratory.

I am glad that I could invent and bring on this mechanism(EU,US.JP Patent.P) has No backlash, No grindy feel, Low mechanical drag, Stronger and faster force feedback which you can feel a tyre in game is made by rubber like a real car.

Last edited by aaltomar, Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:23.

Quote from Shotglass :

its still quick by ffb wheel standards but i was expecting this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5JjdKeThoA

Yeah I agree, one explanation could be that the video above isn't connected to a live game. It may just be spinning back as fast as the mechanism allows and on the other videos it's partly controlled by the game's FFB feedback. Or maybe they had to cut corners from the first design to get the pricing down and the result is a slower mechnism

I guess we have to wait for a decent review from the brave early adopters who will cough up the money needed.

Quote from Shotglass :

at that price id like to try it out first... definitely looks interesting though but it looks like its gotten slower over its development

In this new video it seems pretty fast, like the first dev videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV_s3Xm9chI

And here's the original thread from RSC if you wan't to read about the development:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=280180

Quote from thisnameistaken :

That's a lot of money for a toy steering wheel. If you spent that sort of money just to get beaten by mouse noobs I think that would be a whole new low.

It may not be worth it performance wise but it's more about the immersion and satisfaction you get out of it. Actually I'm even more interested in the hydrobrake since I find the normal "toy" brake pedal is really so far disconnected from the real world. I really like the idea that braking force is measured by pressure and not by the travel distance. Plus you can opt for those halpot potentiometers for that extra resolution and spikefree movement.

And not to sound too much like a fanboy I'd of course would very much want the whole set (or even the wheel), but it's still hard to justify the price with the little time I would use it. But it would be a luxury and oh so fun.... but 7500+ eur (for everything, why go only half way? ) with all the taxes and duty payments it's really hard to justify the price. I wonder if they could export the manufacturing to China while keeping the quality high?

It's a niche product and hence the price and I do like exotics....

http://www.frex.com/gp/ffbwheel/index.html



For anyone in US it costs around $1700 + shipping + your preferred momo/sparco etc wheel.

For us europeans the price is a little more bearable at aprox. 1100 eur + shipping + vat + duties + etc..

It's probably going to be THE ultimate wheel. I just calculated that a full frex motion system with the hydrobrake pedals and the simwheel with all the addons and shifters the total cost is around 5000 eur + vat + possible duties.

I just need to buy a house first to fit all the stuff

EDIT: pre-order specs:

FREX Force Feedback Wheel SimWHEEL
Features and Specifications:
*Optical encoder for precision and years of use for wheel axis.
*Very strong force feedback at max setup and it is adjustable by software in menu.
*Ideal for real car simulator and race drive training purpose.
*Rotation: Maximum Lock to Lock 1080 degrees. Full 3 turns of 1.5 Right and Left directions from center.
*Mechanically adjustable to any degrees.
*16 button switch control output. The connector and switch wiring is same as our PRO wheel adapter and WheelBox+.
*Output connectors for our Sequential shifter "Shift+" and Handbrake "Handb+" for PRO model.
*Pedal output: Gas, Brake, Clutch individual 3 axis control which can use with any sensor of Potentiometer DC3.3V, HallMagPOT DC5V, HydroBRAKE DC24V.
*Force Feedback On/Off switch.
*Power AC 100V-240V world wide. (Set includes US type plug cable. PC or PC monitor's 3pin power cable for local electricity will be needed in other countries)
*Standalone PC USB device.
*Compatible with Windows Racing Games.
Drivers are for Microsoft Windows XP
Drivers for Windows Vista is under development

Plus you can't do without the curvedscreen and projector and a 3D stereo system setup and....

Last edited by aaltomar, Tue, 3 Jun 2008 20:38. Reason : added info edited grammar

Does anyone have a AMD/ATI "Spider" platform running with 790FX chipset, two HD38xx vid cards and three displays? Would this setup work with LFS? I.e. is the end result so that windows sees the three displays as one single very wide monitor?

The first place for me was to find out LFS at the Racing Legends forum. Shortly after that I also posted at this very old thread at RSC. Kind of nostalgic to read what everyone thought of LFS when it was first discovered:

18.08.2002
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=39373
"I'm impressed, and that is from someone who considers GPL/Nascar 2002 is tops. I haven't been this high on a game since GPL."


Below's the thread where I first found out about LFS
18.08.2002: A user of the West Racing forum finds the demo test 0.04k on the internet and spreads the word about LFS:

Last edited by aaltomar, Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:41.

lerts = savaka2 ?

ps. I base this on nothing ;D

An oldie but goldie - GPL - Grand Prix Legends. Lots of tracks, hundreds of them. 67 Formula cars, physics and feel is excellent (there are also a couple mods). Check for more info at www.racesimcentral.com

Quote from flymike91 :

right, but sadly even my high-end computer won't be able to keep up with ps3 or xbox360 graphics. Flight Simulator X was too much, so i hope S3 wont kill me.

I don't think FS X qualifies as a reference for efficient graphics programming combined with quality program code... Crysis is perhaps a better example and runs pretty nicely even in my current A64 3000+/X850 XT combo.

A bit bored I must say. The game still feels mostly like back in the day when I first heard of it at the West Racing forums when the first public version was found. I was preaching it to everyone I knew in those days. Today I'm a bit turned off because the lack of immersion, meaning I need more realistic/photoreal graphics/effects (dare I say improved shadows) and most of all the last lil bit of truely driving the car. Sometimes I do feel a bit disconnected. Whether that be the fault of graphics/sound/physics, I'm not sure, probably all of them combined.

But in the end I'm anxiously waiting for the Y-patch and seeing what improvements there are to be had. Some new toys like the Frex stuff could help too, but those being a bit too expensive considering the lack of time I'm investing in driving games in general...

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

And the 50.000 one has to pay to Immersion for the licensing..

Unless they still go the "buy a logitech wheel as a base" way.

Shige actually told that if you use a wheel that's too small, you won't have the strength to turn it

But I'm sure the power will be adjustable.

It's very compact albeit long construction. Not sure if you'll still need to purchase a Logitech wheel to get the electronics. Hopefully it's a 100% Frex construction.

ramsy66, just for you mate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_fW-tOivkE

Oh and the wheel is not yet priced. I expect it to be over 1000 eur. Sadly.

I've been drooling all over the complete setup with HYDRObrake and simconmotion. With taxes, tolls, and freight included I'd say the pricetag is aprox 6500 eur for Finland...

Hydrobrake:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRYbpy-faHM

Last edited by aaltomar, Sat, 2 Jun 2007 20:08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpC2HB3HK_U

While I'm not a drifter the wheel certainly allows you to do some very quick steering.

The mechanics are being patented as we speak, and Frex believes that the system is first to be used in sim controllers. They think it's going to be the de facto of future.

Can't really argue against the results. Check more info at RSC Frex forum.

Say S2 Final is released by the end of this year. And say getting from S1 to S2 took four years(?). We shouldn't think S3 is going to be released any sooner so by then DX10 would be four years old, most of the new games released are DX10 based, most of us have DX10 cards and S3 is released using DX8/9. I'm not sure the additional market would receive it favourably.

Then again I hope best for the team and wait patiently to see what they come up with (please shadows under the car when in shade

Last edited by aaltomar, Thu, 17 May 2007 17:59. Reason : edit timeline

OT to the subject title but it would be nice to know what the devs have in plans regarding the 3d-engine? The S1 era interviews commented that (free quote) "we haven't yet even implemented all that DX8 has to offer, yet alone DX9" in 2003 or so. Is DX10 a remote possibility for S3?

Quote from Becky Rose :

OK a more real comparison, my brother (who is the best 3D modeller in my team) produced this model of a Williams FW07 in somewhere in the region of a month ( I think a wee bit less ). He made it for himself rather than any given project, and was practicing low polygon modelling at the time - note that the car is just 2,700 polygons whereas LFS uses 20,000 or so per car. So you'd get about 10 times as many on screen.

I'm sorry to say but to use a month for such a model is pretty slow. I'm basing this on examples in various 3d art websites, for example here's one done in 8 days:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/sh ... ad.php?f=132&t=492678
One to two weeks (amateur):
http://forums.cgsociety.org/sh ... ad.php?f=132&t=492278

etc. Of course it's not always fair to compare a low poly with a lot of thought in optimization to a high poly model, but I'd say the low poly versions should not take signicantly more time to do. Should be less as you don't need to add so many details.

And generally regarding studios needing more artists than coders, there's a really good reason for it. While the coders create the base, it can be reproduces, do it once and it's ready. The artists are needed to create the content. And as content needs to varied you need a lot more resources to get the job done on time.

Last edited by aaltomar, Thu, 17 May 2007 09:30.

Well it's not the only "first" screenshot I've seen just one that was readily available. Consider also the fact that the core 3d-engine hasn't got an update in five years. And there has been very little info of anything related to upgrading the engine, no development shots, nothing. It's still DX8. And what Eric does is "art", he's not responsible for the rendering. I remember seeing this "Porsche" mockup and the geometry and engine in general looked way different than just being without textures.

I've poured through a lot of LFS related articles and there's very little info on the 3d-engine itself or the development of it. Scawen will correct this if he deems it to be false...

Quote from joen :

? I highly doubt this is true, do you have anything to back that up?

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Unless it was "early contributors" Dickson Roberts, Mark Healy, Alex Evans then there is no mention of this in the credtis - which I'm sure there would be.

I think this is from the engine Scawen made which was replaced:


Edit: I'm not saying that Scawen is not capable of doing the 3D work, but the lack of actual 3d-engine upgrade suggests to me that they don't have an expert in the house to do an overhaul.

Last edited by aaltomar, Wed, 16 May 2007 19:04.

Quote :

Originally Posted by aaltomar
As I've understood after following LFS from the start the three man team doesn't have a 3D engine coder. It's not Eric and it's not Scawen. The engine we are using at the moment was coded by someone else.

Quote from joen :

? I highly doubt this is true, do you have anything to back that up?

I'd love to back it up but the comments describing the birth of the 3D engine are buried and perhaps lost, you would need to find the comments Scawen made about the engine from the time period when the first playable demo was released and we were all more than hyped about it in 2002.

If Scawen happens to read this thread he just might comment about it, but I think this thread doesn't hold much interest to him. My not so exact memory tells me it was someone who they knew from Lionhead.

As I've understood after following LFS from the start the three man team doesn't have a 3D engine coder. It's not Eric and it's not Scawen. The engine we are using at the moment was coded by someone else.

Oh I would so love to see the missing "Umbra"-shadow. It's THE major omission from the graphics engine. The missing dark shadow totally destroys the suspension of belief, while it helps to suspend the cars :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra

And here's a good reference to the missing shadow.
http://www.roberto-z.be/car020/car000.jpg
http://www.abcweddingservices. ... small_RSSize(300x251).jpg

Last edited by aaltomar, Sat, 12 May 2007 14:55.