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Formula 1 Season 2014
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#801 - CSF
Nah, his car would have broken in good positions again.

But that was boring.
Looks like this season could turn either into a classic intra team battle when it really wouldn't have mattered if only 2 cars turned up for each GP (1988) or we might get another 2011 or 2013 - just depends how quickly Rosberg can get to grips with Hamilton
Quote from Storm_Cloud :Looks like this season could turn either into a classic intra team battle when it really wouldn't have mattered if only 2 cars turned up for each GP (1988) or we might get another 2011 or 2013 - just depends how quickly Rosberg can get to grips with Hamilton

Hey..come on..it is still early?
Maybe the other cars with the good engine will ketchup...or the other engines in the other cars....
Please let us have a season that is entertaining for more than a moment...
Renault and Ferrari will struggle to match Mercedes this season. Advantages that Merc have in areas such as turbo design and packaging can't simply be copied on their existing installations, so I would imagine that only the other Mercedes powered cars will get a look in.

So that's McLaren then. Force India won't develop as quickly as them and will be overtaken shortly. Maybe Williams, but they don't seem to have the ability to transfer acknowledged pace into qual and race performances.

Ferrari and Red Bull will close the gap, but they need to get ahead of Mercedes as by the time they turn things around they could be 150 points behind in the constructors.
Whilst I am mostly nodding my head at what you are saying...we still do not know!
That RB still looks magic in the turn and out of it...different tracks are going to help the other engines in decent cars...and it is still very early.
So far this season we had one specific race that gave more action/excitement than the whole of the last few seasons...probably put together.
I do not care who wins the manufacturer or driver championship, I just want to see some cars racing around having intense battles...I want those moments where I shout "Go on/up the inside son/yessss/good pass/etc" .
Not watching F1 anymore.. done with this whatever platform used for almost everything except racing. Shame though as a big Ferrari enthusiast, just watched the last 4 seasons or something just for them.

Anyway.. really happy to see ricciardo beating Vettel. New to the team and straight on driving Vettel into the middle of nowhere! Just backs up my statement that Vettel is nothing more than a midfield driver. Always said the only reason why he was winning was because of Adrian Newey.. Since mr Helmut likes Ricciardo... i guess perhaps Ricciardo gets the same material now.. yes easy.. bye bye Vettel.(Although the next new finished chassis will go to vettel RB already stated.) Car is everything in F1, not enough chance of driver's mistakes and rules and regulations exclude every variable that was manipulable many years ago. The only driver of which i expect being able to make a very small difference is Alonso.

But don't worry.. Since this year I've found a waayyy better alternative to follow closely Real racing again!
This race was a little bit disappointing after Bahrain spectacle, but it was tactical mix-up. Vettel is a bit struggling, but after all he has more points than Ricciardo, thats his only consolation, but hes way back after Mercedes. But I think Red Bull will get strong soon. Hope for that, because this domination is soo boring.
I loved hearing and watching the Red Bull teammates battle even though it was short. I've never liked the idea of team orders, but in the end it cost Riccardo a podium I believe.

Vettle's driving style doesn't suit the new regulations, or he has yet to adapt to them. Riccardo has hardly driven in formula 1, so he has nothing relearn. It's easier to learn than relearn, and I think that's showing. Riccardo beat Vettle in China simply by maintaining better tire (tyre) wear. At the start Vettle did have better pace than his younger teammate.

China wasn't close to Bahrain, but it wasn't bad.
Well what i don't like to hear is, ''it's the new rules that don't suit driver x''.

The best drivers in the world should be able to adapt, no matter what.

For example, before the start of the season a lot people were saying Kimi had an advantage over Alonso cause the new car's would suit him better. And now after a few races and particularly last race where Alonso finished like a minute in front of Kimi it's like the opposite '' Kimi is disadvantaged cause of the new rules''.

Also i think Vettel will bounce back from a poor start of the season. But it's good to see Ricciardo taking on the fight.
Quote from ChristijaNL :
The best drivers in the world should be able to adapt, no matter what.

I disagree, some people will be able to drive a certain car faster but that does not mean they will drive every car faster...there are many examples...
Quote from englishlord :reminds me of this video http://youtu.be/khA67-r5lSQ

Ha...epic...thanks...when people were heard saying what they really think.
Quote from Anthoop :I disagree, some people will be able to drive a certain car faster but that does not mean they will drive every car faster...there are many examples...

Are the drivers that struggle when others do not really the best?
Quote from sinbad :Are the drivers that struggle when others do not really the best?

Drivers have different styles, strengths and weaknesses. Different cars can highlight or mask those. I can't see why you don't understand that.

The best should be able to adapt ? Yes. That takes time. They are not running thousands of kms of testing like they used to, able to setup the chassis exactly like a driver wants it. Now they setup the car each weekend so that the Pirellis are in their operating window. If the result doesn't suit the driver style then he will most likely look weak.
Quote from PhilS13 :Drivers have different styles, strengths and weaknesses. Different cars can highlight or mask those. I can't see why you don't understand that.

The best should be able to adapt ? Yes. That takes time. They are not running thousands of kms of testing like they used to, able to setup the chassis exactly like a driver wants it. Now they setup the car each weekend so that the Pirellis are in their operating window. If the result doesn't suit the driver style then he will most likely look weak.

I do understand, completely. All that is completely obvious to anybody, but you're not explaining why a driver who can't hack it when the rules change is still at the level of drivers that continue to be competitive. A good driver might take time to adapt, but a better driver will adapt more quickly, and the best will adapt with ease.

Perhaps the only point of confusion is over your definition of "best". For example, you wouldn't suggest that Kimi is still on a par with Alonso (if he ever was) if his results throughout the season follow what we have seen so far, right?
Quote from sinbad :I do understand, completely. All that is completely obvious to anybody, but you're not explaining why a driver who can't hack it when the rules change is still at the level of drivers that continue to be competitive. A good driver might take time to adapt, but a better driver will adapt more quickly, and the best will adapt with ease.

Perhaps the only point of confusion is over your definition of "best". For example, you wouldn't suggest that Kimi is still on a par with Alonso (if he ever was) if his results throughout the season follow what we have seen so far, right?

Adapdation is only one skill amongst others. Best at adapdation doesn't mean absolute best. I tend to undervalue adaptation, you seem to overvalue it.

If the cars change and you are still competitive right off the bat it only means the change didn't affect how you are able to use the specific skills you were able to use before. It was said Vettel was better at using the blown diffuser compared to Webber. EBD gone. That would hurt more Vettel than it would have hurt Webber. Simple as that.

I think Alonso is the best at extracting the most of a non perfect car. Kimi needs a perfectly balanced car to go fast, maybe faster than anyone. New cars are inherently non-perfect and they will stay that way for a while IMO. I don't see Kimi matching Alonso any time soon.
Adaptation isn't a skill in itself as much as it is the ability to refine the very high level skills which make the best drivers the best. Adaptation is what keeps the best drivers at the very front of each class, in each tier of motorsport that they find themselves in on the way to the top.

Not every driver will adjust what they're doing with the same ease, not every driver will get to the same competitive level in the next tier up, these things aren't uniform and I maintain that if one driver can handle the changes better than another, then regardless of what those changes are, he's the better of the two.
Quote from sinbad :Adaptation isn't a skill in itself as much as it is the ability to refine the very high level skills which make the best drivers the best. Adaptation is what keeps the best drivers at the very front of each class, in each tier of motorsport that they find themselves in on the way to the top.

Not every driver will adjust what they're doing with the same ease, not every driver will get to the same competitive level in the next tier up, these things aren't uniform andI maintain that if one driver can handle the changes better than another, then regardless of what those changes are, he's the better of the two.

Yah well...I think I'll never agree to that. I'm pretty sure when you hear people say it's important for a driver to adapt quickly while climbing up the ladder they are mostly talking about the environment, the people, the information available etc...the "driving on the limit" itself doesn't change THAT much IMO.

All of that falls apart when you get into modern F1 where the operating window of everything becomes so thin. It's only in that environment that the driver sometimes has to massively change the way he drives to suit the material. Given enough time the order always resettles though, most of the time the same order that existed in the lower classes.
Quote from englishlord :reminds me of this video http://youtu.be/khA67-r5lSQ

That's great. Thank you for sharing

In regard to other matters, I guess I brought up a sensitive subject, but I'll contribute once more. I feel that Vettle has a particular skill with regard to absolute pace and consistency of it relative to the car which is under him. However, the way that he gets pace out of the car seems lesser when he is behind another competitor (aero-understeer). Also, it seems to wear tires (tyres) more so than others in equal equipment.

Perhaps Riccardo's style allows him to pull very similar speed from equal equipment while being easier on tires (tyres). I do feel that Vettle will adapt slowly, but I also feel that Riccardo will maintain an advantage over his more experienced teammate in tire (tyre) management. Natural talent and understanding in a racing area is almost always able to out pace adaptation skills.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm attempting to gain an understanding of this year's engine chages:

1: More power and torque from the engine with approximately the same weight.
2: Lower top speeds and lap times.
Quote from Cornys :That's great. Thank you for sharing

In regard to other matters, I guess I brought up a sensitive subject, but I'll contribute once more. I feel that Vettle has a particular skill with regard to absolute pace and consistency of it relative to the car which is under him. However, the way that he gets pace out of the car seems lesser when he is behind another competitor (aero-understeer). Also, it seems to wear tires (tyres) more so than others in equal equipment.

Perhaps Riccardo's style allows him to pull very similar speed from equal equipment while being easier on tires (tyres). I do feel that Vettle will adapt slowly, but I also feel that Riccardo will maintain an advantage over his more experienced teammate in tire (tyre) management. Natural talent and understanding in a racing area is almost always able to out pace adaptation skills.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm attempting to gain an understanding of this year's engine chages:

1: More power and torque from the engine with approximately the same weight.
2: Lower top speeds and lap times.

One of Vettels big advantages over Webber in previous years was his tyre management though which is quite odd, although most seem to be saying his style of driving heavily relies on down-force of the car which how it is right now isn't working because this years cars have had a massive down-force reduction.
I Still think if Vettel gets comfortable with the car and is at his best Ricciardo will be right on even terms, the gap currently is quite large and would cater for an improvement of Vettel I think.

Plenty of people seem to be writing off Vettel saying he isn't isn't as good as Alonso or Hamilton now because of this scenario which to me mirrors Alonso's Situation in 2007, maybe its not Vettel that has really changed but a Hidden Talent in Riccardo that could be on another Level completely, you got to Keep in Mind Riccardo and Vergne are Very high level juniors when they came to Torro Rosso and they haven't really had outside Team mate competition from outside the Redbull Driver Group.
Quote from Cornys :That's great. Thank you for sharing

Also, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm attempting to gain an understanding of this year's engine chages:

1: More power and torque from the engine with approximately the same weight.
2: Lower top speeds and lap times.

1: Less power output(hp) but more torque(nm) with an overall heavier engine(powerunit) compared the V8s of recent years.
2: Higher top speeds due to less downforce(drag) and perhaps also due to more top end torque, slower lap times due to less overall downforce compared to recent years.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Quote from lamerr :1: Less power output(hp) but more torque(nm) with an overall heavier engine(powerunit) compared the V8s of recent years.
2: Higher top speeds due to less downforce(drag) and perhaps also due to more top end torque, slower lap times due to less overall downforce compared to recent years.
Correct me if I am wrong.

I'm opening a can of worms but whatever. This is the biggest misunderstanding about car acceleration.

Engine torque really means nothing. At all.

Engine power is the only thing that matters. If you want to know how much a car can accelerate all you need to know is how much power on average it outputs over the rpm range it is running. That's it.

2014 engines : much less peak power, but likely more average power over the range used. The power curve peaks around 11000 rpm and is almost flat from 10000 rpm to 13000 rpm. Basically whenever they step on it, out of every corner all they way to the next, they are outputting close to peak power.

Cars 90 lbs heavier if I remember correctly.

Less drag, less downforce : more top speed, slower laptimes
Quote from PhilS13 :

This is the biggest misunderstanding about car acceleration:

Engine torque really means nothing. At all.


Corrected for you.
Quote from PhilS13 :I'm opening a can of worms but whatever.

Yes...I think you are...either in my mind or yours?
Power is the rate at which the wheel can turn and torque is the force behind the wheel.
If the wheel has a lot of torque then it will get to maximum speed quicker than a wheel with less...if a wheel has more power then it will get to a higher maximum speed than with less...
Quote from Anthoop :Yes...I think you are...either in my mind or yours?
Power is the rate at which the wheel can turn and torque is the force behind the wheel.
If the wheel has a lot of torque then it will get to maximum speed quicker than a wheel with less...if a wheel has more power then it will get to a higher maximum speed than with less...

The subject is 100% clear in my mind.
The can of worm comment was more about people usually refusing to accept they have been wrong about this their
whole life. Trying to properly explain the hp/torque relation on internet forums most of the time leads to nowhere because of that.

Most of what you have just said is wrong. Do your own reading if you like, everything is on the internet.
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Formula 1 Season 2014
(1761 posts, closed, started )
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