JazzOn is blind to the obvious it seems. In an LFS race, if you went for a tiny gap and then caused contact as a result, it would be YOU to blame, not the other driver... Vettel basically went on the grass, he CHOSE to go in that part of the road, Webber didn't force him into that area of the track. He CHOSE to go there, and the contact was a result of that basically (even though it was strangely erratic).

Quote from BlueFlame :

Vettel basically went on the grass

Nonsense. You're implying that there literally wasn't enough room, but there was a car's width. The mistake here wasn't the attempt to overtake, it was the assumption that Webber wouldn't hold his line for as long as possible.

Quote from BlueFlame :

They are team mates, so if you blame Webber for not giving enough room, then surely the fact Vettel went for a gap that was barely there is enough blame to put on Vettel and judge that the incident was purely Vettels fault.

Sorry, i can't blame Vettel for being able to actually managed to get alongside and put his nose infront. The racing was tough and fun to watch, but it needs 2 (btw) to cause an accident.

PS: huh, where was vettel on the grass? Webber had the whole rest of the track to still make it hard for Vettel.

Im just dissapointed and predict Webber will never be World Champion.

Edit: damn im slow

Quote from BlueFlame :

In an LFS race, if you went for a tiny gap and then caused contact as a result,

no, you would be almost skyrocketed

greetz Jaz

/thread ^^

It wasnt Webbers fault, it could never ever end up being his fault, so all this Webber bashing isnt justified in my opinion. He had every right to do what he did.

At this point off the season, I will never view Vettel in the same way. Blatantly pointing and spinning his finger at his head, indicating what an idiot Webber is, was not called for at all, and made himself appear as a major idiot.

If You were to say, that Webber wasnt very generous, with the space left for Vettel, yes absolutely correct, but still not illegal or dirty, just firm and hard.

Considering the 2 are team mates, its a 80/20 incident, where Vettel has majority of the blame

@Red Bulls: If they were not teammates then it would all be fair racing, but they are team mates so they shouldn't of been in that sort of situation. I think Webber should have given more room than he did, Vettel had a good amount of space and then Webber closed it more then kept it straight. Vettel spots his braking point from the markers but what happens naturally is your hands follow the eyes and into Webber he went.

@McLarens: Hamilton was faster, that was clear from how he could stick with Webber even in dirty air he let off near the end to save fuel and Jenson wanted to take advantage, cus he's a prick.. I'd be pissed if i was Lewis too. Lewis has said himself, one thing he learnt from his first season with Alonso is how to play the team game and regrets what happened between them. He expected the team game from Jenson, a mature driver but didn't get it.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Great race, loved seeing the 4 guys at the front running so close together. My view of the Red Bull incident is that Webber could have given Vettel more room, and it would have been smart to do so, but he also did nothing wrong. If I were the team principle I would sit the drivers down and remind them both to leave their egos at the door, the team is more important.

QFT, the lonely voice of sanity... Ultimately, the team lost out the most from their little powerplay - just when they started to get on top of their reliability issues...

Vettel wasn't on the grass, but on the white line just on the edge of the track... But that's a moot point anyway, since that didn't cause the accident... I also don't see what people read into the fuel mixtures? One car had the lead - thus massive drag - right from the start while the other found a cozy low-pressure bag behind other cars and stayed there... Is it so hard to imagine that the leading one uses more fuel in the process? So Vettel is the new Schumacher, Webber the new Coulthard and RBR the new Ferrari or are you lot maybe a bit paranoid?

Quote from lamerr :

At this point off the season, I will never view Vettel in the same way. Blatantly pointing and spinning his finger at his head, indicating what an idiot Webber is, was not called for at all, and made himself appear as a major idiot.

...

Considering the 2 are team mates, its a 80/20 incident, where Vettel has majority of the blame

I know i said i leave, but i can't resist :P

Indeed it wasn't political correct, knowing all cameras catch every emotion or action you take, but i have to say that i'd rather see someone expressing his thoughts, than act as if nothing happend. I'm sure they both regret things they have done this weekend.

And i'd actually say from the POV of the Team, facing very quick Mclarens closing in, i say 70/30 with Webber at fault.

just my 2 cents, gn8

Quote from BenjiMC :

@McLarens: Hamilton was faster, that was clear from how he could stick with Webber even in dirty air he let off near the end to save fuel and Jenson wanted to take advantage, cus he's a prick.. I'd be pissed if i was Lewis too.

So Jenson is a prick because he wanted to get as much advantage as possible in a champonship battle and saw a chance to do so........
Both drivers are battling for a championship so why should one let off just because they both happen to drive the same car. It was 2 drivers fighting for the lead, Lewis should have expected it and I think if roles where reversed wouldn't have hesitated in doing so....and rightly so.

F1 is an individual sport and until the drivers championship is done away with, will remain so. Anyone thinking otherwise are fooling themselves.

As for the Vettel vs Webber, well shit like this was bound to happen. Webber left just enough space for a F1 car, so Vettel bought a ticket for the raffle, and sent put his car in....any other time he could have got away with it and we would be (metaphorically speaking) creaming ourselves over a move that would have looked great. But such as life is (and kids, this is important) it kicked Vettel square in the ging gang goolies leaving Vettel pissed off and Webber even more so. There's nothing much else for it other to shrug your shoulders and learn from it......


.....or at least purchase a cup so next time it doesn't hurt so badly and swell up

Quote from BenjiMC :

@McLarens: Hamilton was faster, that was clear from how he could stick with Webber even in dirty air he let off near the end to save fuel and Jenson wanted to take advantage, cus he's a prick.. I'd be pissed if i was Lewis too. Lewis has said himself, one thing he learnt from his first season with Alonso is how to play the team game and regrets what happened between them. He expected the team game from Jenson, a mature driver but didn't get it.

I'm sorry but I've never heard so much horse shit in my life, you should check the meaning of the word competition. :doh:

The idiot crowd picks an underdog favourite, and anyone who outdoes them automatically becomes a prick, before it was Hamilton who was fired upon for the crime of being successful, but a run or poor results and now the shallow 'fans' switch their attentions to whichever driver dare attract attention to themselves next.

The trouble with Hamilton is that his rise made F1 popular among the ****wits of the general public and the media in this country, things would be so much easier if thickshits weren't allowed opinions.

I love the slightly subtle joke in this Autosport article's image

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I love the slightly subtle joke in this Autosport article's image

Touché

Quote from BenjiMC :

@McLarens: Hamilton was faster, that was clear from how he could stick with Webber even in dirty air he let off near the end to save fuel and Jenson wanted to take advantage, cus he's a racing driver fighting to retain his title..

Fixed that for you. You obviously had a brain fart. Don't worry, it happens to the best of us.

Button himself didn't do anything wrong. I think the message Lewis got from the team was that the race was called off & cruise to the finish. The move back on Button I think proved Hamilton's dislike of what just happened. People keep saying the McLaren drivers showed RBR how to race within the team, but Hamilton looked to me to be happy to see Button out of the race.

It's not knew that something went wrong within the McLaren communication network. I think they coded Hamilton that the race was over just bring it home and this message wasn't relaid to Button. If it had been communicated to Hamilton that the race was over you can understand his annoyance.

Quote from bunder9999 :

they abuse (their cars) too much.

*cough* vettel *cough*

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I love the slightly subtle joke in this Autosport article's image

didn't pick it up the first time I saw it when I read the article...

but yeah they should stick it up RB's pitwalls, motor homes, and garages~

and also on Vettel:
this is the second time this year Vettel moved across on someone, and on both occasion he's blaming the other guy for being there~? that's something seriously wrong with his mentality...

and for him on the championship, he's currently on 78pts, which should've been 103 or at least 96pts. Or more worryingly, he should have and could have got 75pts from the first 3 races of the season.
But being a Champion is anything but what should have and could have been, it's the points that mattered...

Accident was very split second but i would shift the Blame to vettel in this one.

Mark left barely enough room so there was more likely Webber would be able to scare Vettel to brake early or get a good line to re-overtake on the next corner if he would hold his position. Vettel thought Webber would go to his line but he didn't and Vettel went into him.

The fact Webber was on fuel saving mode and Vettel wasn't when they where that close without webber being told the situation sounds like team favoritism to me.

Quote from Intrepid :

Button himself didn't do anything wrong. I think the message Lewis got from the team was that the race was called off & cruise to the finish. The move back on Button I think proved Hamilton's dislike of what just happened. People keep saying the McLaren drivers showed RBR how to race within the team, but Hamilton looked to me to be happy to see Button out of the race.

It's not knew that something went wrong within the McLaren communication network. I think they coded Hamilton that the race was over just bring it home and this message wasn't relaid to Button. If it had been communicated to Hamilton that the race was over you can understand his annoyance.

I picked up on that too.

I felt that Lewis was shitty because of that, and i wouldnt blame him. Would make you feel asif someone was told to cruise while other was on race mode. Also Monaco, Mclaren telling him to conserve and him snapping back at them.

In my opinion, i dont think Mclaren can handle Lewis' fire. I like Lewis alot more that hes acting more mature off-track, but this backing off and cruise mode on-track really makes me feel Lewis could do better, which he can. A driver like Lewis IMO, cant back off and be comfitable with it. Lewis is in some ways, like Senna or Montoya.

IMO, Lewis needs to leave Mclaren. But is there another option for a driver like Lewis?

Quote from aoun :

IMO, Lewis needs to leave Mclaren. But is there another option for a driver like Lewis?

Lewis will not leave Mclaren. I just dont see it happening. He himself has said Mclaren is the only team he absolutely loves and I think he will stay there until his retirement.

Can you see Lewis driving a Ferrari/Red Bull? I sure dont. He and Mclaren are like one now.

Brundle managing Lewis on the other hand would be great IMO.

Quote from JPeace :

Lewis hasn't been the same since his father left the job as manager, i think that meant a lot to him. I wouldn't be surprised if Martin Brundell has a go at the job seat of managing lewis : some of the things he said where kind of hinting that he may.

Hmm.. Didnt think about that, good point, could be true.

Quote from DevilDare :

Lewis will not leave Mclaren. I just dont see it happening. He himself has said Mclaren is the only team he absolutely loves and I think he will stay there until his retirement.

Can you see Lewis driving a Ferrari/Red Bull? I sure dont. He and Mclaren are like one now.

Brundle managing Lewis on the other hand would be great IMO.

I couldnt see Lewis leaving Mclaren either, but back in early sauber days, i didnt see Massa racing for Ferrari missing the WDC by 1 point. I didnt see Montoya back in 03 loosing his amazing mojo in Mclaren. And i dont think anyone saw Schumey comming back to F1 in a Merc.

Id have alot more interest and respect for Lewis if he packed up at Mclaren and moved to another highend team, though id support Lewis all the way if he went to a lower team, and built himself up again from there directing the team his way. Alonso went though it, going back to Renault.. Rubans did it, Schumey is doing it now. They are men there, not someone holding on to something.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Nonsense. You're implying that there literally wasn't enough room, but there was a car's width. The mistake here wasn't the attempt to overtake, it was the assumption that Webber wouldn't hold his line for as long as possible.

To a degree that IS what I am implying, people here are whining that Webber didn't give enough room for his teammate, but if you leave a small gap for your team-mate surely he is the one to blame for going for a small gap, rather than a big one.

If people see the replay, where did vettel first point his car before making a move? Inside or outside?


...and where did he end up going? What was the tighter option and what was the clearer option. He would have known the outside would have been cleaner, but the inside would have given him 1st IF he took a gamble, which he did. Vettel's responsibility.

Watch it again!!

Quote from aoun :

If people see the replay, where did vettel first point his car before making a move? Inside or outside?


...and where did he end up going? What was the tighter option and what was the clearer option. He would have known the outside would have been cleaner, but the inside would have given him 1st IF he took a gamble, which he did. Vettel's responsibility.

Watch it again!!

100 % agree!!

Quote from aoun :

If people see the replay, where did vettel first point his car before making a move? Inside or outside?


...and where did he end up going? What was the tighter option and what was the clearer option. He would have known the outside would have been cleaner, but the inside would have given him 1st IF he took a gamble, which he did. Vettel's responsibility.

Watch it again!!

I also 100% agree.

I think it was fail of them but more of Mark. Vettel was faster than his teammate in that moment. He tried to overtake him but Webber just didnt gave him any place WHY? Anyway, Vettel should propably go to right because of low grip on left side tyres. I just dont know why experienced driver like Webber was pushing him there.