Quote from Dajmin :

Counting colours doesn't count - both games have that option. But FM3 does have flip paint options, so we can haz 2 culurs at once!1111!!!11loleleven

I still don't see why everyone feels the need to make out like one is better than the other. They're both good, and they both do very different things. I object to either game claiming hundreds of cars when what they actually mean is several paint schemes or power ratings per car model. I mean FM3 has about 11 Carerra's and a half dozen Ferrari 430s - that's only two cars, not a dozen

I like the car porn element of GT5 - the models are superb, and the environments are stunning. I love the tuning and painting aspect of Forza. Can't we all just get along?

I know colours dont count, im just going along with the pathetic attempts of 1-up-manship going on in here.

In terms of duplicate cars, if they're different models, both visually AND specs, or race-tuned versions, then i'd say they're fair to class as a new car.
If theres a 2.0L, 2.6L and 3.0L then thats a little ghay, but if its say a F430 in standard road spec, customer track version, and team race version, then they should be seperate IMO. Though it does seem a little pathetic if you removed all those variations of 1 car, and the 500 went down to 200, but i wouldnt expect a DTM spec Audi to be counted as one alongside its road variation.

I have to admit, i am looking forward to the photo mode, and i dont care how often the LFS Dev's say LFS isnt a screenshot generating software, i bloody wish it had it. Considering what GT4 looked like in-game, and what the photo mode could produce as a result... i'd love to have the same in LFS.
Likewise i'd like visual customisation, but in saying that, it was in Ferrari Challenge, and i barely touched it, though that could have been because it wasnt the easiest of things to use and F3 probably does it much better.


As for getting along, absolutely not!!

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Whatever, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Well it's you who compared the 800cars on psp with the 400cars on 360......so that's your fault. producing 800 cars in PSP is alot less work than those 400 on the 360, so it's a bit silly you use that argument in terms of content - they are of different quality, hence the comparison in quantity is not exactly relevant.

If your original comparison stays, I can spend two days and make 1500 cars in generally, and then laugh at both companies for their epic fail because I have more content, with much less time, and less than 150mb.

If Paul and Dustin are indicative of the people you meet on the PSN, then I'll stick with the shouty, racist tweens on XBL anyday of the week!!!!

Dustin is just acting, I am sure in real life he is a pretty pleasant person.

Quote from JJ72 :

Dustin is just acting, I am sure in real life he is a pretty pleasant person.

He must be. I can't imagine anyone being such an annoying little dick in real life.

My guess is he's going for the "Most annoying person" award this year.

Quote from danowat :

If Paul and Dustin are indicative of the people you meet on the PSN, then I'll stick with the shouty, racist tweens on XBL anyday of the week!!!!

I've played a few PS3 games online. PSN is about as good as XBL when it comes to online play, minus all the comfort of XBL (private chat is what i'm talking about mainly, PSN is such a PITA in this regard). In the end the system really doesn't matter... physicists can be found everywhere.

Quote from jibber :

I've played a few PS3 games online. PSN is about as good as XBL when it comes to online play, minus all the comfort of XBL (private chat is what i'm talking about mainly, PSN is such a PITA in this regard). In the end the system really doesn't matter... physicists can be found everywhere.

Eh private chat is possible on PS3 as far as i know.

Yes it is, if the game supports it. I'm sure he meant cross game chat, or beeing able to chat to friends no matter what game they are playing or what are they doing on their console, and that, if the rumors are true, should be out by the end of this year.. and i will wonder what else would be left for Live to justify it's price tag

There both similiar, but Live is very clever in the way it invites freinds, the "party feature" works well and the Marketplace is brilliant to use. Also, no more downloading is neccesary when wanting to rent a movie now, which is cool.

One thing i have always disliked about PSN is the lag. Granted, if someone has a slow connection on Xbox Live when your playing them, then yes, you will experience lag. I am in no way saying Xbox Live is a completely lag free experience.

However, comparing it to PSN, Xbox Live reigns superior. Ok, PSN isn't unbareable, but it's obvious when comparing it to Xbox Live that PSN is no competition when comparing it to Xbox Live in terms of Online Gaming. Live is freindlier and easier to use, Online Gameplay is alot smoother, and with the Zune Movie Marketplace coming to Xbox Live soon, as well as Facebook/Bebo/Myspace arriving soon too (although i will not use these), all these little things make Xbox Live a much more freindly and sociable place to be.

I must add though, i find it pathetic how some people have to keep on complaining about paying for an Online service. If you guys really can't afford 70 PENCE a WEEK (providing i have worked that out right ) then you really need to find a way of getting a more substantial income!

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

I must add though, i find it pathetic how some people have to keep on complaining about paying for an Online service. If you guys really can't afford 70 PENCE a WEEK (providing i have worked that out right ) then you really need to find a way of getting a more substantial income!

It's been discused to death, it's really not the price that is the problem, it is that i wouldn't be paying it out of principle, it's a redicolous presedan that MS somehow got away with, well i know why, because majority of people are idiots generally, but let's not go there..
When PS3 gets Cross game chat, you're saying that you will still be happy to pay for a freakin P2P service, just because it has console Facebook and Twitter?

I'm sorry, but i do not remember saying that the fact that Xbox Live having Facebook/Twitter crap makes me happy to pay for it.

What makes me happy paying for Xbox Live is the fact that Online Gameplay is very smooth, the Marketplace is HUGE and full of lots of content (although PSN and PSN Store, so it's similiar) the movie rentals are great and don't require downloads and the general ease of use. The customer service is also great, and are happy to help.

I really do not see any problem with paying just £40 a year for a great online service, especially when it is (IMO) the best one out of all the current consoles on the market. If i didn't think it was worth it, then i would not buy it. Simple as that.

Plus, i don't see any problems with "principle". The MS guys are asking for a little fee that they can put towards maintaining and upgrading the servers. What's wrong with that? It's like putting lots of hard work into creating a game, then giving it away! When it's such a small ammount, i'm more than happy to pay for it when i get a such a great service in return.

Well, they are just making up for the fact that they don't have a web browser, to go to the real Facebook and Twitter sites so Microsoft can rape them with the Live service.

Additionally, I have never had any issues with playing online with PSN. Uncharted 2, COD4 and COD5, Resistance 2 (heck, that even has a server list and party system), Borderlands, NHL09, NHL10, FEAR2, Burnout Paradise, GT5P, Skate 2, UT3, Etcera. All of them (other than COD4 and COD5 with the 3 map packs each for 10$ each which means I get kicked from every game after 1 match), has had basically flawless play online. Borderlands has had a slight release niggle (slow loading server list) but a patch is already in the works to fix it.

Maybe making it easier for me is I don't much care who I play with online (not many friends have PS3's and games I like), so I kinda just join servers at random.

For what I get on the PSN, I'm happy. I don't need Cross-game chat as I don't feel the need to talk to someone who's in NHL10 while I'm playing borderlands talking about Formula 1. I'm content playing my game, talking if I need to in the game that I'm playing.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

Live is freindlier and easier to use, Online Gameplay is alot smoother, and with the Zune Movie Marketplace coming to Xbox Live soon, as well as Facebook/Bebo/Myspace arriving soon too (although i will not use these), all these little things make Xbox Live a much more freindly and sociable place to be.

Woah, stand back! That totally destroys PSN's complete internet browser where you can access those sites anyway.

You can't seriously suggest that Live is less laggy just because you say so? There is no fact that confirms that. I have absolutely 0 problems with lag on PSN. Mine is very fast, since my internet connection is pretty good. Therefore I declare that PSN is less laggy and much more user friendly than Live - Does that make it true? No, but it works both ways.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

For what I get on the PSN, I'm happy. I don't need Cross-game chat as I don't feel the need to talk to someone who's in NHL10 while I'm playing borderlands talking about Formula 1. I'm content playing my game, talking if I need to in the game that I'm playing.

This.

PSN suits YOUR needs. It does not suit mine.

Xbox Live suits MY needs. It does not suit yours.

Hence why both have different + and - points for everyone. Xbox Live has pretty much everything i wan't for Online Gaming, which is why i don't mind paying such a nominal fee. It's pointless trying to showcase the Online side of each console when someone is using the other. You prefer PSN, and will most likely never switch over to Xbox Live, and i'm fine with that, and i'm sure your fine with the fact that i prefer Xbox Live and will most likely never switch over to PSN.

I do wish Xbox Live had an Internet Browser though, as it was something i really really liked using when i had my PS3. It would be nice for it to arrive in an update at some point, and this has been rumoured to happen for a while now, but i doubt it will.

@ Gills. No not because i have said so, but because i have tried it myself. Back when i had my PS3, i put through an internet cable for it and hooked it up. After playing with it for a while, i then put on the free Xbox Live trial to play some of my 360 games online. It was then that i noticed how much difference there is when playing Online. As i have said before, i am not trying to say the PS3 is totally unbarable. It's just the fact that there IS a noticeable difference when comparing it to Xbox Live and it is not as smooth as Xbox Live, so it will always be a Negative against the 360.

The difference in speed is also a hell of alot different when playing with people from fair away distances. Especially people from AUS and USA. This is where Xbox Live really proved itself, with there only noticeable lag (i.e, someone skipping across or freezing for a second) every now and then, where as the PS3 done this more often. Same with talking over the headsets. When talking to people (whether they were from the US, EU, whatever. Didn't matter) i would notice odd noises, or there voices crackling/skipping quite often. This was not a headset problem though, as i tryed it with 2 other headsets just to varify. It was annoying, but as i have said before, certainly didn't make make Online Gameplay via PSN unbareable. Just less enjoyable then Xbox Live.

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

The MS guys are asking for a little fee that they can put towards maintaining and upgrading the servers.

But that's the thing, WHAT servers If all games had dedicated servers then i wouldn't say a thing, but the things is, PS3 ironicaly has more games on dedicated servers. It's not like WoW which i completely understand the need to have payable service. The "presedan" i'm talking about is that it's a start of something like paying to post on forums, and other nonsense like that.. Would you be happy with that, "hey what's the problem, it's just 20 cents per post"..

I can watch iPlayer on my PS3.

Also yeah, Xbox relies a lot on P2P type play where a player acts as a host, whereas a game like Resistance 2 has dedicated servers either from Insomniac, or people who run their PS3's as dedi servers.

I have no issue with voice chat either, clear as day as I've been playing in Borderlands lately.

/thread.

I can watch SkyPlayer on my 360.

As i have said before, both do things that some people would like, where as others would not. This quote below is from a recent review, and i think it sums it up nicely.

http://www.hardcoreware.net/pl ... xbox-360-two-years-later/

Quote from Carl something.... :

Online Support

Sony has come a long way in the year since we last did this comparison. Can you imagine playing a game, and not having access to your friends list? And whether you like it or not, a lot of people can’t live without achievements. Sony has added these features to their interface, while maintaining free online access. It’s not as good as it sounds however; chatting with friends is still clunky as hell, and it’s still difficult to invite them to games (there is still no auto invite function).
Some games have added better interfaces (Burnout Paradise comes to mind), but in the end, PS3’s online functionality is very poor in comparison to XBOX Live. I guess you can still say “You get what you pay for” in this case.
Another issue is the fact that there are fewer people buying Playstation 3 games. Not only is the console being outsold by quite a significant margin by the XBOX 360 (4.62 million compared to 2.56 million in 2008 alone, and 9.15 million compared to 3.25 million in the lifetime of the consoles), it also sells less games per console. That means that you will find many more online games of Call of Duty 4, for instance, on the XBOX 360. Also, even your multi-console friends will probably choose to play online games on the 360, because of everything I mentioned here.


Playstation Network Store vs. XBOX Live Arcade

The initial interface of Sony’s online store was, to say the least, crap. However they revised it last year, and it is now very easy to find games, demos, and other extra goodies. There are even ‘branded stores’ for companies like Capcom who offer many titles.
Big titles like Mega Man and Street Fighter HD are available on both programs, and usually run well on both consoles. Both consoles have good indy support as well, with all the PixelJunk games and such on PSN, and games like Braid on XBLA.
Microsoft tends to do a better job of adding retro games, while Sony only occasionally adds the odd PS1 title, and has a few arcade games available. This is one thing that drives retro fans like
myself crazy; with hundreds of great games that can easily be made available on PSN for little cost, it’s frustrating that there are so few.
As far as demos go, both PSN and XBLA have time fee-based demo exclusivity. For XBLA, it’s in the form of XBOX Live membership, where if you’re a paying member (which all online gamers are), you get early access to demos. For Playstation Network, you have to subscribe to their “video magazine” Qore to get monthly exclusive demos, the value of which is questionable.


Netflix

Depending on your situation, this may be a HUGE deal for XBOX 360, something that you need to consider if you like to rent movies. With NXE, XBOX 360 added the ability to stream movies in near-DVD to 720p quality to users with XBOX Live Gold and Netflix Unlimited accounts. At a low monthly cost, users have access to over 100,000 titles, including movies and TV shows. Keep in mind however, that this feature is only available to US residents at this time.
With some effort, you can do the same with the PS3, but nothing beats turning the 360 into a media center that allows you to easily browse through thousands of movies and shows, and instantly start streaming them with decent quality. PS3’s Blu-Ray support is more geared for video enthusiasts, where Netflix streaming is more for the casual crowd. So it’s up to you to decide which is better for you.


Other Considerations

There are of course some other things that we need to consider when comparing the consoles that may not fit under certain categories. For some people, this is what will make or break their purchasing decision.

• RROD. The issue has seemingly been taken care of, as reports of recent XBOX 360 models have been few and far between. However, if you are using a launch unit, the longer you play it, the closer you are to disaster. I am knocking on wood at this point, but it just seems that having your XBOX 360 die on you is not a threat, but an inevitability.
  
• Import Gaming. I touched on this last year – the fact that the Playstation 3 is completely region free for PS3 titles makes it the easy choice for import gamers. If you are into playing the latest whacky titles from Japan, then the decision has been made for you pretty much. Furthermore, it’s very easy to create PSN accounts in other countries, allowing you to play demos intended for other regions. Without a credit card, you won’t be able to purchase PSN games, but this is still a nice feature to have.
  
• Piracy. The PS3 still has yet to be figured out by modders, so pirates are still left with one choice between the two. That said, Microsoft is constantly battling piracy, in the form of completely banning consoles that play online with pirated games. The Playstation 3 will almost inevitably be cracked, but when it happens and how easy it’s going to be are unknown at this point.
  
• Folding@Home. Again, not a big deal to most people, but folders who are on the fence about which console to buy will want to consider the PS3. Believe it or not, there are some pretty hardcore folders out there who care a lot about how many points they make.
  
• PSP Connectivity. This function was added just after I wrote my last article, and it’s only gotten better since then. The interoperability between the PS3 and PSP is nothing short of impressive. Browse the console from anywhere, stream music and video, play games. It’s really cool. Unfortunately, the PSP has become somewhat irrelevant in the last year, due to a lack of.. any games worth playing at all.
  
• Backwards Compatibility. If you are interested in playing your PS2 library on your shiny new PS3, forget it. Any system bought in a store today has absolutely no PS2 functionality whatsoever. Not even emulation. On top of that, PS2 emulation on the old 80GB version was extremely sketchy. If you really want a backwards compatible PS3, you need to buy a used 60GB or 20GB. In the meantime, Microsoft is expanding their backwards compatibility, and adding new Original XBOX games to their online library from time to time.
  
• Display Connectivity. When I wrote last year’s article, you had to buy an Elite XBOX 360 to get HDMI output. Since then, every single XBOX 360 has HDMI output (even the $200 Core System) so this is no longer an issue. What may be an issue is that you will need to use a custom cable if you want to use optical audio with HDMI video. This costs around $40.
  
• Open Source Operating Systems. Again, PS3 is the only console that officially allows you to install Linux on it. You can’t play PS3 games while in Linux, but you can switch back to the XMB easily. There is still a group that is working on a version of Linux that can be installed on XBOX 360.
  

Conclusion

So, which is better, XBOX 360 or PS3?
The answer is……. Neither! Look, each console has its “pros and cons”. If you primarily play online games, you will want to get an XBOX 360. If you have a nice HDTV and want to enjoy beautiful Blu-Ray movies, you will want to get a PS3. If you are an “achievement whore” you will want a 360. If you like to play import games, you will want a PS3. If you want to easily stream near-HD quality movies and TV shows, get a 360. It goes on and on. If you like Halo games, get a 360. If you are more of a Killzone kinda guy, get a PS3. If you want to spend less than $400, get a 360.
If you think the PS3 has “better graphics” get a PS3. If you think the XBOX 360
has “better graphics” then get an XBOX 360.
The fact is, the decisions that influence your purchasing decision are entirely up to you. What matters to you may not matter to the next person. But hopefully you have a clearer picture of “what matters” to you, and how the consoles compare after reading this article. If it’s exclusive titles, fine. Go with the console that has the games you like. If it’s “which multiplatform games play better on this console” the answer is… Well the 360 is a bit better, but the PS3 is improving in this regard (and buggy games do get patched).
I’ll finish off with some comments that are purely subjective. It is my personal opinion that it just ‘feels’ better to play games on the Playstation 3. After reading this entire article, the PS3 has some advantages and some disadvantages, but for some reason I just like playing games on it better. It’s quiet, I don’t have to worry about it Red Ringing on me, and I actually prefer the DualShock 3 controller (when the connection is not cutting out, which seems to happen with less frequency now that I think about it). I am more of an offline gamer when it comes to consoles, so the XBOX 360’s huge advantage of being the superior online gaming system doesn’t apply to me. I just want a console that will do what it’s supposed to do, and do so quietly. Other people will feel just the opposite, and that is perfectly fine. I have my reasons, and you have yours. And neither of those should affect one another. That’s the whole point of writing this article in the manner that I have.
Comments are welcome, keeping in mind that fanboy crap will not remotely be tolerated. If you have a comment to make, try to do so in a respectable manner.

Notice how he says (quite often) that both suite individual needs. This is the same way that i, and many others feel. We have bought our consoles because each one suites the needs that WE want, not because others have said one or the other is superior.

@ Dawedust. Xbox Live is able to have dedicated servers, not just player created ones.

To summarize that wall of text:

PS3 is better.

/thread

Thread restarted.

Now lets talk about how on earth starbucks coffee can be considered anything above mediocre.

Trust me, compare it to the canadian favourite of Tim Hortons, and you'll take starbucks any day.

Just imagine water with a hint of coffee taste... that's tim hortons.

Well don't you get non-francise cafes with real baristas? All chain coffee sellers, particularly American ones sells "coffee" that are too sweet, has no depth in its flavour and contain more milk than actual coffee.

Really.. No. They exist but they're impossibly uncommon and only in the downtown area. It kinda sucks where I live. Either one of the 8 Starbucks, or crappy Tim Hortons. Starbucks just happens to be lesser and better of the 2 evils.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Starbucks just happens to be lesser and better of the 2 evils.

Or do what the sensible ones do, and buy decent beans, a grinder and a decent coffee maker.

This is how crap GT5 is. Its so boring the thread just turns into a coffee discussion

Do not bash me. kthxbai.

Quote from danowat :

Or do what the sensible ones do, and buy decent beans, a grinder and a decent coffee maker.

Makes no difference, You have 2 proper choices of beans at stores... Generic or Starbucks. The Generic ones are all crap. Again, better of 2 evils.