Wich is why it was founded at first.. To be slacking at the back.
Wich is why it was founded at first.. To be slacking at the back.
Hah, you actually have no clue do you?
And even if you are joking, I don't see anyone laughing.
I don't care anyway, so long as there's a British team doing well I'm happy, and at the moment its Brawn. Crossing fingers for Melbourne.
And even if you are joking, I don't see anyone laughing.
I don't care anyway, so long as there's a British team doing well I'm happy, and at the moment its Brawn. Crossing fingers for Melbourne.
Well this is the big question. Are McLaren merely working through various set up / wing combinations to gather as much data as possible so they are better prepared than other teams in regards to in-house development through the year, or are they simply put - screwed!?
I guess by some of these comments, that none of you have played poker before ... 
We understand the possibility that McLaren are sandbagging. if they are then f*&k they will be rapid!
The frustrating thing is the lack of analysis from he journos who travelled to Spain. All we have had is "Mclaren lack rear end grip" or "McLaren lack traction" which any half sharp engineer will tell you means jack sh1t.
The McLaren is the story of the winter so you would expect reporters to be able to tell what the car does under braking, turn in, mid corner, and exit. Also be able to tell you how this developed or changed over the days.
If I had gone I would be able to tell you every detail of what I interpret the car to be doing.
The funny thing is I am not that interesting in the racing. Come sunday morning \I probably won't even watch. The development, and learning process over the winter is FAR more educational, and valuable for me
Anyway I couldn't resist mocking this up for a laff
Lmao.
This is the first time ever in my lifetime that I actually can't wait for the F1 season to begin, because there's so much unknown and some suprises already.
But surely Mclaren wouldn't go as far as getting their drivers to throw the cars off the track every so often, unless this is some seriously elabourate deception campaign!
This is the first time ever in my lifetime that I actually can't wait for the F1 season to begin, because there's so much unknown and some suprises already.
But surely Mclaren wouldn't go as far as getting their drivers to throw the cars off the track every so often, unless this is some seriously elabourate deception campaign!
can we have like a major rule change like every five years to spice things up a bit?
I reckon make em 3 wheelers next year
When do you actually shut up?
No you really need to stop blaming me for trolling and flaming because now you start another arguement!
Just dont read my posts then OK!?!??!
I highly doubt Mclaren will be at the back, but i hope it happens its about time a big team like that was at the back, expecially with number 1 and 2 on there cars.
Man, this pre-season stuff got me so excited. Cant wait for Melbourne.
But i still think McLaren are going to turn up with a car thats atleast able to finish on the podium
But i still think McLaren are going to turn up with a car thats atleast able to finish on the podium
edit
My prediction on how strong teams are (how i see it):
1.Brawn GP
2.BMW
3.Ferrari
4.Toyota
5.Williams
6.Red Bull
7.Mclaren
8.Renault
9.Force India
10.Toro Rosso
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2009/3/9015.html
1.Brawn GP
2.BMW
3.Ferrari
4.Toyota
5.Williams
6.Red Bull
7.Mclaren
8.Renault
9.Force India
10.Toro Rosso
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2009/3/9015.html
you put Macca that high up? lol
If you mean Macca as Mclaren then yes. They will get better till Melbourne im sure of that (well what is sure). But might not be. We will see.
Best looking car BMW
nice agressive "full" shapeStill not sure I believe it.
Best quote from the article:
"World champion Lewis Hamilton and team mate Lewis Hamilton languished in the lower half of the timesheets throughout the four days at the Circuit de Catalunya, prompting the team to concede that they may not be competitive in time for Melbourne."
He's a one man team!
Well we all knew that already, didn't we? :P
Seriously now, I'm curious to see how he's going to perform this year. New regs, he will have to develop the car, the setups... Things that I'm not sure yet he can do well - maybe that explains the poor performance so far?
To be honest I highly doubt McLaren is as bad as it looks, but I don't think it'll be as good as it was. We saw last year how Alonso can change things during the season. I guess McLaren will have a similar path - but do they have the right drivers to change the game in their favor?
These comments are odd. You think the driver has that much influence in the design of a completely new generation car when you consider the 500+ employed to design it?
Also let's consider last year.
- McLaren had the FIA all over them after spygate
- They started the year with major rear traction issues
At Bahrain it was arguable they had the third best car. Throughout the year McLaren were probably the best team at developing their package. Lewis Hamilton was leading the championship charge. He played a large role in the delopment of a car that struggled so much in Bahrain, to then dominating in China.
This doesn't correlate at all with your comments.
If a car hits the track is dead last with fundemental design issues there isn't much a driver can do. Just look at Button for the last two years. Decent driver who couln't break into the top 10. Now all of a sudden he's a championship contender.
A driver can talk to the engineers about the cars behavour and maybe suggestions about what set up to change. But when it comes to design fundementals drivers play little, or no role at all. You don't see Newey phoning up Vettel for tips on aero development
On the first day of testing the BrawnGP was rapid. Button hadn't turned a wheel but suddenly because the BrawnGP was fast you consider him a top development driver?
Williams at some points in 1993 or 1992 was seconds clear of Senna and his McLaren at some races. Do you blame Senna for this lack of development and speed? OK, Mclaren sorted it out regarding engine etc... but that was largely down to better power from the engine
The yardstick for the development driver is Alonso and Renault are hardly setting the world alight with performance. WHat about him?
If you think Hamilton's lack of pace is down to him then you are plain wrong. That McLaren just isn't working, and I don't think even Schumacher could make it work any better.
that is if the McLaren aren;t sandbagging, which is becoming less and less likely
I'd agree if my post was something like "McLaren is doing bad because of Hamilton alone". Wich it wasn't.
I don't know about those things, but I don't think the drivers have much influence in a car design from scratch. But I think they must have in the development of the car during the season. They are the ones who drive the car, they should at least know things like "traction is poor" and pass that info forward.
I don't remember clearly what happened in Bahrein, and I'm at work so I can't keep searching things... but wasn't that race Hamilton rear ended Alonso, and then struggled the rest of the race because of the contact? I don't remember why he was back there, but I'm sure he'd be in the top 5 if it was a normal race. I won't consider Heikki's performance.
Anyway, I'd hardly consider the 3rd best car in the first race to best car in the last race as a incredible achievement, specially when the 2nd force gave up on the fight in the middle of the season.
Surely one driver can't save the day alone these days, but he can help saving it. I'm just not convinced Hamilton is the kind of guy that can make a difference outside the cockpit (he can inside).
(sorry I ran out of time here, will have to stop writing :shy
EVen after Hamilton winning the first race it was clear the Mclaren was considerably behind the Ferrari in terms of raw speed. Him, and his team did a fantastic job bringing the MP-23 up to speed so that Hamilton had a chance at the title. It was quite rare in the season for the McLaren to have real pace over the Ferrari and BMW. This goes completely against what you say about Hamilton. It actually shows Hamilton to be a superb develop.
I recall at the beggining of last year doubters were saying the same thing that Hamilton wouldn't be able to help produce a championship winning car because they lost Mr 7 tenths Alonso. Guess what? Hamilton won the WDC! These are the facts
A driver of course can help bring on an average car to make it a good car. Like ALonso did with Renault. To be honest I just think he dragged that car to places it shouldn't have been.
With the limited testing each team has there isn't a way on God's earth than in several days of driving Lewis Hamilton can in anyway bring on that McLaren to any significant extent. Like all the other drivers he can improve set up of the car, but with such limited testing time the cars have to hit the track running (the Brawn GP for example). Mclaren appear to have dropped the thing out of a jumbo jet and it's landed flat.
Not even Senna, the very best driver/developer of all time, could make that Mclaren any better...
disclaimer: Macca might be sandbagging lol
This quote made me laugh from The Times
You forgot something....
Drivers tend to influence setup, not design. Engineers are the only ones who have any practical measure of influence on the design of a car. Every driver wants a well-balanced car, and that's what the engineers go for.
Drivers test for balance first, out-of-the-box. If the balance is off, then they attempt to correct it using setup. If the car doesn't respond positively to setup changes, then the team's screwed. If it responds well and the car can be balanced to the driver's liking, then the battle is half won. Any of the car's characteristics that can't be corrected via setup, is in the realm of the designers.
McLaren has been testing out new underbody, right? They've also been using the 2009 rear wing a lot. This seems to suggest that their problem is aerodynamic, and regardless of the setup experiments done by Lewis or Keikki, it's not responding well. Videos seem to show that the car is very nervous (with Lewis driving) in corners. Lewis using lots of kerbage, getting on power very late, twitching upon braking and turn-in, etc. Put all that together, and the problem looks like its related to low aero grip toward the rear. Bad diffuser design? Bad rear wing? Bad undertray?
Whatever the case, none of those problems can really be solved by Lewis or Heikki. The team needs to get back to their windtunnel and CFD simulations.
They've got Jerez next week, and most teams aren't testing at Jerez. Hopefully McLaren can get some revised components and fix the problem before Melbourne. If they can't get their car in shape next week, then it will proabably be a very long and frustrating season for them.
Kubica and Massa are saying the Brawns pace is real, which would be the biggest surprise in F1 history that a team can debut with the fastest car on the grid.
Massa and kubica were doing Qualifiying runs and the Brawn was over a second faster!
Privateer teams FTW!!
ill take back my comment about Brawn being midfield now..
Button for WDC?
I guess Buttons near career threating fetish with honda is starting to pay off.
Massa and kubica were doing Qualifiying runs and the Brawn was over a second faster!
Privateer teams FTW!!
ill take back my comment about Brawn being midfield now..
Button for WDC?
I guess Buttons near career threating fetish with honda is starting to pay off.
2009 spec. Formula 1 Cars
(667 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG