Note the thread title

Quote from JJ72 :

I don't understand why you would like to type such a long thread specificly on R-factor on a LFS forum, look we don't have a fetish in this particular sim.

I am sorry, but I was under the impression that a thread named "Rfactor vs LFS" would be a good place for my assesments of both simulators, not to mention my dismal experience with Rfactor. I do not write the information to make myself feel better. I simply hope it will help others, assuming they can read. As you can see, Canadians can read.

Quote from JJ72 :

NFS underground 2 has not bad physics imo, i've beaten the game twice

Yet you don't understand why I wrote of my experiences with Rfactor and what I think of LFS in this very thread named "Rfactor vs LFS"?

NFS Underground 2? What are you smoking?

Quote from rabidmaddog :

Yet you don't understand why I wrote of my experiences with Rfactor and what I think of LFS in this very thread named "Rfactor vs LFS"?

NFS Underground 2? What are you smoking?

If one IS smoking things, then NFSanything IS fun

Quote from rabidmaddog :

I've been playing LFS for several months and I am very impressed. I wanted to try Rfactor since I have heard some positive reviews. My following assessment of Rfactor will not be positive, you've been warned.

The first thing I noticed was the rather odd counter-steering in Rfactor. Despite many hours experimenting with different cars, setups, and controller settings, I was never able to control any but the most trivial of over-steer situations. I've driven silly in real cars on a closed "course" and know how counter-steering influences the rotation and direction of the car. Rfactor simply doesn't have it right, at least not as it plays on my system. Incidentally, I noticed the same thing in the GTR demo, as well as other MODs by Simbin. It's almost as though a spin is a scripted event and there is simply no stopping it regardless of what one does with the steering wheel. Loosing the back end beyond a certain point, sure, those cases are hopeless, but I am talking about easily correctable over-steer situations. In LFS on the other hand, I can control a slide with counter-steering and throttle adjustments just like in a real car.

Additionally, I've encountered nightmare stability problems with Rfactor. I've encountered video lock-ups where the audio keeps running, entire game lock-ups where the entire simulator freezes up, full system lock-ups which respond to ctrl-alt-del, full system lock-ups which do not respond to ctrl-alt-del, and even fatal errors resulting in the blue screen of death/reboot. These will occur while driving solo, in a full field, while navigating menus, and while selecting a track or a car. I've driven for 20 minutes without incident, and other times only 30 seconds until a game or system freeze. The overwhelming consensus on the Rfactor forum is that the problem is GPU overheating. Hmm, I don't think so. Here’s why...

The issue I have with the overheating explanation is that a video card, at least a properly designed one, is designed to be stable at 100% load. Its performance is determined by its processor and clock frequency. Unless it is over-clocked, there is no magical means by which a game will load the GPU beyond 100%; it simply will not perform any more calculations per second. When detail settings and resolution in a game require more GPU horsepower than the 100% a video card is capable of, it becomes evident in reduced frame rates. Overheating should not occur unless there is a cooling problem such as dust, high internal case temperatures, high ambient temperatures, inoperable fans, or a video card or driver design flaw. I have none of these conditions at the moment, and I'm sure many of you do not as well. Other games which will also load the GPU into oblivion (100%) should also induce the alleged overheating problem, but they do not. Additionally, navigating game menus, and selecting cars/tracks in Rfactor does not substantially load an Nvidia 6800GT or any other video card. Freezing, if not completely crashing the OS in a simple menu, can not possibly be a result of overheating.

I've tried Rfactor with less demanding video resolutions and detail settings. I've tried it using DX7, DX8, and DX9. I've also tried various sound configurations. The instability persisted and lock-ups would occur at seemingly random intervals regardless of CPU/GPU load. The instability, which is some of the worst I've ever seen in a game/simulator, including demos, along with the odd counter-steering physics, ultimately resulted in my refund request.

I think Rfactor is promising, but it's my opinion that it needs more work. Following my 10 hour fiasco of reading forums and experimenting with various Rfactor settings, I decided to drive for a while in Live For Speed. The difference is as night is to day. Counter steering actually works, steering in general feels much more precise, providing much better control over slides. In the several months I've been playing LFS it's been 100% stable. I feel somewhat guilty for even trying Rfactor and feel like I should send the guys at LFS some more money for my betrayal in buying Rfactor and installing it on the same PC. LOL.

I Hope this helps save some people from the issues I've encountered with Rfactor. I love LFS and it just keeps getting better. Bravo!

Maybe your PC just sucks? Did you build it?

Quote from rabidmaddog :

I am sorry, but I was under the impression that a thread named "Rfactor vs LFS" would be a good place for my assesments of both simulators, not to mention my dismal experience with Rfactor. I do not write the information to make myself feel better. I simply hope it will help others, assuming they can read. As you can see, Canadians can read.

Thank you for your assesment.
I had thought about trying RFactor and no longer do.

Quote from BWX232 :

Maybe your PC just sucks? Did you build it?

That's possible. However, it runs about 30 other games, including LFS, RBR, Battlefield 2, Doom 3, and X-plane at very high resolutions and detail settings. It also runs all of my music composition software and a boat load of virtual instruments which are very CPU and RAM intensive. If anything will detect system instability, it's digital audio workstation software. The PC also runs AutoCAD which is what I work with for a living. It's been running fine for over a year. There are neither IRQ conflicts nor any IRQ sharing. It's the most reliable and stable platform I've ever used. Yes, I did build it. I never buy pre-built machines because they always have exhibited more problems, are never configured exactly how I would like, and are considerably more expensive. I've been building them for 12 years. There really isn't much to it these days; especially if you're Canadian and you can read. Rfactor induced the only blue screens of death I've ever seen on the PC. No, I don't think the PC sucks. It is rock solid; hence my assessment of Rfactor's instability. If I were the least bit suspicious of my PC, I would not find fault with Rfactor and would discuss the issues in a PC forum. Everything works flawlessly except Rfactor.

Quote from hammer it :

Thank you for your assesment.
I had thought about trying RFactor and no longer do.

They do have a demo which I tried. It was seemingly stable for the 45 minutes I played it. The car did exhibit the counter-steering problem, but I thought it might simply be that individual car. It would seem that is not the case however. In my opinion, LFS is the way to go.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

If one IS smoking things, then NFSanything IS fun

I had not thought of that. That might fix Rfactor! I've tried vodka and cranberry juice playing LFS, but for some reason the simulator increases its difficulty level as I drink. Must be a software bug.

Quote from rabidmaddog :

Must be a software bug.

No it's your PC.

I build my own PCs also (I am Canadian and I can read) and Guiness has the same effect on LFS as your Vodka drink... It's because we build our PCs, not a bug.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

No it's your PC.

I build my own PCs also (I am Canadian and I can read) and Guiness has the same effect on LFS as your Vodka drink... It's because we build our PCs, not a bug.

illepall

LOL, note the jovial nature of my post hehe.

I have bought rFactor some time ago and have not driven a lap up to now... brand new game umm, license.
It looks weird although, recent mods for it make it look nice

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

No it's your PC.

I build my own PCs also (I am Canadian and I can read) and Guiness has the same effect on LFS as your Vodka drink... It's because we build our PCs, not a bug.

Damn, I was afraid of that. Now I need to build a new one which is alcohol compliant. Will beer work in a liquid cooling system?

Quote from KeMoT :

I have bought rFactor some time ago and have not driven a lap up to now... brand new game umm, license.
It looks weird although, recent mods for it make it look nice

Please let us know if it works. Perhaps there is hope.

Quote from rabidmaddog :

Damn, I was afraid of that. Now I need to build a new one which is alcohol compliant. Will beer work in a liquid cooling system?

Beer would work, make sure it's flat. But hard stuff would work better at exchanging heat. (151 proof rhum should do).

Quote from rabidmaddog :

That's possible. However, it runs about 30 other games, including LFS, RBR, Battlefield 2, Doom 3, and X-plane at very high resolutions and detail settings. It also runs all of my music composition software and a boat load of virtual instruments which are very CPU and RAM intensive. If anything will detect system instability, it's digital audio workstation software. The PC also runs AutoCAD which is what I work with for a living. It's been running fine for over a year. There are neither IRQ conflicts nor any IRQ sharing. It's the most reliable and stable platform I've ever used. Yes, I did build it. I never buy pre-built machines because they always have exhibited more problems, are never configured exactly how I would like, and are considerably more expensive. I've been building them for 12 years. There really isn't much to it these days; especially if you're Canadian and you can read. Rfactor induced the only blue screens of death I've ever seen on the PC. No, I don't think the PC sucks. It is rock solid; hence my assessment of Rfactor's instability. If I were the least bit suspicious of my PC, I would not find fault with Rfactor and would discuss the issues in a PC forum. Everything works flawlessly except Rfactor.

Well your PC is very unstable by the sound of it. rF is not inherently unstable at all. It must be your PC.. some component that rF finds the weakness in. Maybe it is a BIOS setting that needs adjusting? rF is a very demanding app. -Much more than almost all you listed.

Buffalo NY just beat Canada's butt in hockey..

I suppose that has about as much to do with this conversation as you being Canadian an literate. Of course maybe there are more illiterate people there? I should hope not.

Quote :

I've been playing LFS it's been 100% stable. I feel somewhat guilty for even trying Rfactor and feel like I should send the guys at LFS some more money for my betrayal in buying Rfactor and installing it on the same PC. LOL.

I Hope this helps save some people from the issues I've encountered with Rfactor. I love LFS and it just keeps getting better. Bravo!

You sound like a true one sided clone with blinders on! Congrats on that.. LOL. How would you know how rF drives if you never got it working correctly?

PS- you can drive more than one sim.. they don't have feelings like girls.

Quote from rabidmaddog :

Yet you don't understand why I wrote of my experiences with Rfactor and what I think of LFS in this very thread named "Rfactor vs LFS"?

NFS Underground 2? What are you smoking?

read post 7 by Looney.

I wouldn't judge the whole game just because it doesn't work well on some computers. Of course it affect's the driving experience but there's no certainty if the crashing is caused by the game itself. I would like to test rFactor some day because the GT Legends has given me so much fun.
Sure GT Legends isn't better than LFS, but, it's good enough for my taste.

I have had Rfactor since it came out and didnt play it that much- although when i did it was OK but not much more. some of the early mods were great tho- and all of the tracks you can get.

recently i downloaded the RWS megane trophy mod and i have to say that i am having as much fun with this as i did with LFS It just ticks all the right boxes. LFS is still better overall but that new mod just shows that the rfactor engine is capable of great things.

The major let down of Rfactor in my opinion is that on my system i had to seriously re-configure my hardware to get it to run properly and responsively. this includes graphics latency settings and appeture settings along with a few others. in my opinion customers shouldnt have to do this.

Quote from askoff :

I wouldn't judge the whole game just because it doesn't work well on some computers. Of course it affect's the driving experience but there's no certainty if the crashing is caused by the game itself. I would like to test rFactor some day because the GT Legends has given me so much fun.
Sure GT Legends isn't better than LFS, but, it's good enough for my taste.

So, you are saying I shouldn't judge GTL because the best I can get is 10 FPS at 800x600x16 running with DX7, no AA/AF, no other cars on track and all ingame options set at minimum, yet LFS I can run 1152x864x32 with 4xAA/4xAF and all options set at maximum at 50 FPS, sometimes 70-80 FPS depending on number of racers?

that's not normal dude, the performance different shouldn't be that big.

I've lost count on the ammount of 'Game A compared to game B' threads I have seen so instead of reading through each page of this one, i'll just share my opinion with you straight away instead.

The only way to make the comparison is to buy both games and decide for yourself, or go to neutral ground and ask there. It's no good going to a forum that favours one of the games over the other, as no doubt the majority of posts will be biased (even if for the right reasons)

Let me just say, the Sim industry is in a healthy position today. It's because there is so much choice out there for the consumer that it is healthy, so let's not argue too much

Each game has it's pro's and con's. Most of the time, the game with less con's equals the better game, but you have to look at it's good points too.

Quote from BWX232 :

Well your PC is very unstable by the sound of it. rF is not inherently unstable at all. It must be your PC.. some component that rF finds the weakness in. Maybe it is a BIOS setting that needs adjusting? rF is a very demanding app. -Much more than almost all you listed.

Buffalo NY just beat Canada's butt in hockey..

I suppose that has about as much to do with this conversation as you being Canadian an literate. Of course maybe there are more illiterate people there? I should hope not.


You sound like a true one sided clone with blinders on! Congrats on that.. LOL. How would you know how rF drives if you never got it working correctly?

PS- you can drive more than one sim.. they don't have feelings like girls.

Have you actually read my posts? I was quite interested in Rfactor and gave it very fair opportunity. The steering was goofy no matter what settings I used, at least until it locked-up or crashed my PC. I did actually drive and experiment with it for about 7 hours. The other 3 hours were spent reading forums trying to find solutions. If you read the post again, you will see that I do play other sims. This is how I know it's possible to correctly model counter-steering as in RBR and LFS.

"Very demanding" simply means highly CPU, GPU, and/or RAM intensive. My machine runs fine at 100% load. There are a number of PC stress tests available and my PC was stable when running those as well as all of my other games at very high settings.

I am actually quite objective. I am not attempting to bash Rfactor. I simply wanted to share my experience in that my machine configuration is rather typical for a high end gaming platform, at least one that is a year old. The headaches I experienced with Rfactor were ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but due to the successful stress testing, the plethora of other games I play, my quality hardware, and current, certified drivers, I don't see how system instability could possibly be the problem. If Rfactor was so much more "demanding" than my other sims and games, why does it run at such high frame rates? Regardless, 100% GPU & CPU load still should not induce instability on a stable machine; it would just result in lower frame rates as the demand increased. I can induce that very condition in some games including LFS. In X-plane, I can bring my system to it's knees with ridiculous resolution and detail settings. Frame rates will drop through the floor even with a Geforce 6800, AMD64 3400, and 2GB of Corsair PC3200. Despite the enormous demand of X-Plane, guess what? The Sim keeps running just fine. There are no lock-ups and no errors. That's called stability. It has nothing to do with how demanding a game is. As I said, I tried Rfactor at very low settings. It had no impact on the problems.

Gee, could it be that Rfactor simply has issues with certain hardware do to insufficient software testing? It's certainly happened many times before. You know, those little things called patches?

I will leave it up to the other forum members to determin what you sound like.

Quote from Platinum pete :

The major let down of Rfactyor in my opinion is that on my system i had to seriosly re-configure my hardware to get it to run properly and responsively. this includes graphics latency settings and appeture settings along with a few others. in my opinion customers shouldnt have to do this.

Precisely. So should I really tweak my BIOS and other settings to possibly make Rfactor happy and likely screw up the flawless performance of 30 of my other games and applications? I don't think so. As I said, I think Rfactor needs more testing and more work. I am not saying it won't work on a different machine. I hope it does work well for others. It simply was a nightmare for me and many others.