The online racing simulator
Searching in All forums
(72 results)
KartRacer
S3 licensed
@JTCK: Not that far off this season. More than 1/2 (54%) are street or road courses. What they do need is some more permanent road courses, to replace just a couple of the ovals. Get rid of Iowa and Kentucky and substitute Road America and Laguna Seca.

Street Courses
(6) 35%
Streets of Sao Paulo
Streets of Saint Petersburg
Barber Motorsports Park
Streets of Long Beach
Streets of Toronto
Edmonton City Centre Airport

Road Courses(3) 18%
Watkins Glen International
Mid-Ohio Sports car Course
Infineon Raceway

Ovals
(8) 47%
Kansas Speedway
Indianapolis Motor Speedway
Texas Motor Speedway
Iowa Speedway
Chicagoland Speedway
Kentucky Speedway
Twin Ring Motegi
Homestead-Miami Speedway
KartRacer
S3 licensed
how big (resolution wise) are you looking for?
KartRacer
S3 licensed


" alt="" onload="imageAutoSize(this)" />

Last edited by KartRacer, .
KartRacer
S3 licensed
I felt the C6-R was very forgiving, allowed me to slide the rear a bit without losing it, good feedback etc.

There are never any huge slides in these cars in real life anyway, small corrections, sure. Anything more than that and you spin, real life or sim.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
Quote from KartRacer :Anybody here smoke? Its 2-3 packs of smokes, a month.
Anybody go to the movies? Its about the cost of an movie and a soda, a month.
........you get my point

It is quite a bit more expensive, if you don't think you can afford it or if you think $0.75/a day is too much, then don't pay. If you're not going to pay and in turn, not going to drive, whats left to discuss? If you cannot afford and/or disagree with the price AND are interested in iRacing e-mail them. Pissing and moaning/writing nonconstructive and repetitive posts is fairly annoying and doesn't add anything to the thread's discussion.

A few positives to the payment system:

Monthly renewals: Forces the iRacing staff to give the customer a reason to return. You buy any other sim and thats it, if the demo or reviews convinced you to purchase it, they have no real reason, from a business standpoint, to do anything extra for you. Obviously if there is no support, the word would get out and new customers would be turned away from purchasing the product.

The price pays for a large staff, which does many things for the customer's side of iRacing. Some of them are:
- Funds to continue research and development on physics, graphics and online code as well as all the other aspects of the software.
- People who are dedicated to specific aspects of the sim (sales,rules,requests,physics,graphics,online code... so on and so forth) make it easier and quicker to fix problems and help the sim racer.
- This software was developed to be a two-function type of product. Made for both the sim racer and also drivers looking for a development tool as well as allowing companies, teams and individuals to use the software and/ or have content created. Because of this, iRacing not only gets feedback continuously from simmers and real-world drivers but also from the teams and companies that design,work on,set-up,own and race the cars and the tracks.
- Theres staff dedicated to the community and competition side of iRacing, something no other sim has.
- Having software that real-drivers use because of the realism, that is NO different from what the regular sim-user has (no notepad "fixes" for grip levels) gives iRacing a very respectable and enticing product for anyone interesting in racing or simming.

No, I don't work for them. Trust me, if you look at it (the driving,racing and community), the price isn't as crazy as some people are saying.

But some people complain about anything new or different, if you don't want iracing then who cares how much it costs...you're not paying for it. After all, the other non-subscription sim's are still around and still going strong, to each their own.

-From another thread

But try it, I dare you, if you like driving and racing....the price becomes justifiable pretty d*** fast
Last edited by KartRacer, .
KartRacer
S3 licensed
Anybody here smoke? Its 2-3 packs of smokes.
Anybody go to the movies? Its about the cost of an movie and a soda.
........you get my point

It is quite a bit more expensive, if you don't think you can afford it or if you think $0.75/a day is too much, then don't pay. If you're not going to pay and in turn, not going to drive, whats left to discuss? If you cannot afford and/or disagree with the price AND are interested in iRacing e-mail them. Pissing and moaning/writing nonconstructive and repetitive posts is fairly annoying and doesn't add anything to the thread's discussion.

A few positives to the payment system:

Monthly renewals: Forces the iRacing staff to give the customer a reason to return. You buy any other sim and thats it, if the demo or reviews convinced you to purchase it, they have no real reason, from a business standpoint, to do anything extra for you. Obviously if there is no support, the word would get out and new customers would be turned away from purchasing the product.

The price pays for a large staff, which does many things for the customer's side of the iRacing. Some of them are:
- Funds to continue research and development on physics, graphics and online code as well as all the other aspects of the software.
- People who are dedicated to specific aspects of the sim (sales,rules,requests,physics,graphics,online code... so on and so forth) make it easier and quicker to fix problems and help the sim racer.
- This software was developed to be a two-function type of product. Made for both the sim racer and also drivers looking for a development tool as well as allowing companies, teams and individuals to use the software and/ or have content created. Because of this, iRacing not only gets feedback continuously from simmers and real-world drivers but also from the teams and companies that design,work on,set-up,own and race the cars and the tracks.
- Theres staff dedicated to the community and competition side of iRacing, something no other sim has.
- Having software that real-drivers use because of the realism, that is NO different from what the regular sim-user has (no notepad "fixes" for grip levels) gives iRacing a very respectable and enticing product for anyone interesting in racing or simming.

No, I don't work for them. Trust me, if you look at it (the driving,racing and community), the price isn't as crazy as some people are saying.

But some people complain about anything new or different, if you don't want iracing then who cares how much it costs...you're not paying for it. After all, the other non-subscription sim's are still around and still going strong, to each their own.
KartRacer
S3 licensed










Some people in the sim-racing community have been asking for something with more realistic tracks,more realistic cars, a more organized way of racing and competing online and for a service that will allow for continued development of software. While others have been turned away by existing sim's because of their wreckers,people not racing, a lack of organization online, fictional tracks, cars,tires, setup options, a confusing mis-mash of varying quality mod's and their constant updates causing mismatches and dilution of the community and the frustration and or lose of a potential/existing sim-racer.

Yeah, I could have used better punctuation there

This is what a lot of people have been looking for, most of them assuming you cannot ask for a lot more with out paying more. Others were content with what the have and they should continue to be.

I love LFS as well as iRacing, but don't rip on it unless you try it and don't bitch about not being able to afford it if you rank other "extras" in your life more financially important. Then its NOT FOR YOU, sad, oh well!

I hope to see you try it, and enjoy it as much as I have.
Last edited by KartRacer, .
KartRacer
S3 licensed
I wouldn't say the steering becomes light IRL, maybe in some circumstances...but the better definition IMO is "dead", it seems as if the feeling of Castor, wheel angle and tire friction go away and the steering wheel seems to go "neutral" when a fair bit of under steer is met. I'm guessing thats because you've overstepped the front tires grip and they are just pushing across the track instead of relaying force through the car, its suspension and the steering system as well.

I'm guessing sim's relay this feeling as the steering going "light" because they don't accurately relay centering forces, which would force the wheel back to center, thus killing the feeling of under steer. So the only way to do it is to make the steering very light, as the feeling of "dead" steering (@ a given steering angle, not straight) isn't the easiest thing to simulate with FFB.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
If you mean to block outgoing messages, I'm all for it. I just recently lost a OWRL championship because of an accidental chat message. +1
KartRacer
S3 licensed
1968 Ferrari 312


1999 BMW LMR


1992 McLaren Honda MP4/7A
Last edited by KartRacer, .
KartRacer
S3 licensed
For entering on your own:
LFS Username:
KartRacer
Race Name: [DSR] Sizzle

Number:
07
KartRacer
S3 licensed
^That looks great!
KartRacer
S3 licensed
Your also missing a few other things in LFS.

-Realistic Tires...(only one available compound for a given series)
-Realistic setup options/restrictions(limits everything from dampers and springs to diff.'s and gear ratios)
-A "harder" rev. limiter, which can sometimes be used as a throttle cut in all gears, not just 1,2 and maybe 3 like in LFS.
-Realistic top speed, LFS seems to be just a bit low from what I've seen.
-Correct modeling of monoshock(not actually sure if it is modeled correctly, but the cars behavior and suspension settings and reactions to changes in those settings seem IMO not very monoshock like)

Otherwise it is exactly the same as the Formula BMW's you see in R/L. The car in LFS is a great car, but a few things would need to be changed for it to be realistically simulating a representation of the FB02.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
I was also lucky enough to be selected to beta-test the new Fanatec wheel. I should be getting mine in a week or so. I'll try and write a nice/honest review, as well as a in-depth comparison with the G25.
iRacing
KartRacer
S3 licensed

"Pricing Announced for iRacing.com Simulation: Groundbreaking Software to be Available by Subscription"



"iRacing.com today announced pricing for its racing simulation, which will be available on a subscription basis starting in 2008. A one-year subscription to the service will cost $13 per month and includes all of the content necessary for a subscriber's first season of oval-track and road-racing. Shorter terms of six and three months are priced at $15 and $17 per month, respectively. A one-month trial subscription is available for $20."

Check the link for the rest of the article: www.iRacing.com


Screen-shots:



KartRacer
S3 licensed
I'm beginning to doubt that the mono-damper is correctly simulated in LFS, if this is true, the the info we've found on springs/shocks...means ...a lot less than I thought.
Reasons:
1)Two shock/damper damage bars in F10 screen
(unless its simulating push-rod damage, or damage to the rod-ends on the lower wishbone and its mounting point, or the rod-ends mounted to the bell crank, which I doubt all of those)
2)Pull up on a curb, a ramp or banking with only one front tire...the front behaves very independently.
3)A zero setting for front ARB? Which ever unit they are using...you shouldn't ever be able to have a setting of "0" on a mono-damper configuration unless one wheel is completely disconnected. (which again, it doesn't behave like that, both corners still are dampened when you drive with 0 front ARB)

If this is all true and we have a car without a mono-damper front end...I'm not sure what kinda of car we have.
-unrealistic setups and settings
-tire selection, not to mention possible unrealistic characteristics/behavior for even the closest compound corresponding to its r/l compound
Its a Formula BMW graphically only then...

-slightly unrelated question....
Why wouldn't spring stiffness spring height/height and ride height effect weight distribution? AT All? Or is the % in the info setup screen only calculated from the default setup?

Small rant/question post, sorry about that!

Quote from JasonL220 :i like the idea of a real setup server, i would really like it if the setup options in lfs would have different setup ranges for different car that correspond to real life setup ranges.

Quote from PhilS13 :Definately should create some sort of "realistic setups" FBM server where setup limitations would be applicable (based on trust for the moment i guess)

Look for the [DSR]DarkSideRacing S2 server, we are on quite frequently using setups from our "Spec-FBM" series. The series uses realistic options(as close as me and Delusion could get, from the series rulebook and the best we could guess on stuff that wasn't in the rulebook, in a couple days)
Check out our forum for more info!
http://www.darksideracing.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=22

-Hopefully the dev's will realize enough people are interested in realistic options for setups and will soon offer a "button" in the options menu to turn on/off realistic parameters and that could also be made a server-side option. Its the only way to keep everybody happy here. Every time I've posted about realistic setup options I get nailed with excuses, about how they like it,its what LFS is all about, its what makes it unique or that it is realistic...so on and so forth...so I stopped arguing for that! Anyways, the setups for the series are great fun to drive, make for even closer racing and are a bit more exciting and forgiving on the track! See you online!
KartRacer
S3 licensed
Yup Bob, I'm not sure on the exact locking percentage, I worded that incorrectly. I meant 40%power in LFS is a 60 ramp angle so on and so forth. The gear ratios in the default setup are more or less what they can actually run. Heres some info that me and [DSR]Delusion figured out using the Formula BMW rulebook;

lb/in.......N/mm

500 87.5
600 105
700 122.5
800 140


800 140
900 157.5
1000 175
1100 192.5

thats actual spring rate, but LFS uses the wheel rate, so;

Front
500 58.5 N/mm
600 70.5 N/mm
700 82 N/mm
800 94 N/mm

Rear
800 66 N/mm
900 74 N/mm
1000 82.5 N/mm
1100 90.5 N/mm

Available Gear Ratios:
1st:
3.167

2nd:
2.2
2.667

3rd-6th:
1.765
1.667
1.529
1.438
1.389
1.334
1.278
1.238
1.211
1.190
1.144
1.105
1.056

Final Ratio:
3.889

Plently of setup options, dampers are not adjustable and it would take a bit more research in order to figure out the ARBs, but I think we would still have plenty of options. Plus, as I've mentioned before we need bump stops and packers, both of which are used in Formula BMW. They also allow two different anti-sqaut options(back rear upper A arm mounting point). Me and Delusion are experimenting with a possible DSR Formula BMW series that uses the actual rule book, we still have a few things to figure out, but the times are only a few tenths off the regular fast LFS sets but they are much more forgiving tire wise and a blast to toss around!
FBM Questions
KartRacer
S3 licensed
A few questions about the LFS version of the Formula BMW FB02.

1) Pushrod Monodamper Front Suspension
Is the car in LFS a monodamper front suspension? If so, what are the differences between a pushrod monodamper configuration and the more common twin damper layout.
Am I correct in understanding that in a monodamper configuration the anti-roll bar has a much larger effect on body roll? If so how differently does spring stiffness correlate to wheel rate and body roll? Along with the spring, does the damper also affect pitch more so than roll in a monodamper front end?

2) Tires
Which tires in LFS are closest to the FBM's real-life counterparts?

For short races;(R1s are obviously best for a hotlap)Should the car be setup softer to take advantage of R1 grip, or setup in a more overall optimum way using R2s?

3) Setup parameters
Now for the part that most on here will probably disagree with. Why do we have a realistic car model, with unrealistic tire options and setup parameters?

Why have a real car that, after we all get to it, doesn't actually handle like a F BMW? How are we supposed to diagnose problems with LFS's physics if we are first changing setups to unrealistic measures AND THEN complaining about tire wear,handling issues and other problems that arise. Why not make the real cars have realistic setup parameters, while the rest could remain the way they are.

In my opinion realistic setup parmeters have a few extremely large advantages.

#1: Its a real car, with unreal setups...enough said...hardcore simmers or motorsports fans will be turned away when they see the setup options for the car, I know I would be if I wasn't already addicted to LFS's feeling of driver/car connection.
#2: Better racing. Less setup options make it easier to make a setup; more time is spent driving.
(for me it would result in maybe 40% more driving and 40% less time starring at the setup screen and then changing spring stiffness by .5 and 6th gear by .001.)
#3: More fun to drive; realistic tires and setups will venture away from this...."slide once and be warned, slide twice and suffer the consequences" type deal going on. If you've ever seen a F.BMW race in real life they are sliding quite a bit every once and a while, without suffering from near burnt up tires because of a few bad corners. Yes I know, R2s or even R3s are closer to real life, but come on, we all know we will use R1s because the fast guys are...and who wants to give up an advantage!
Also, the setup options, more importantly the differential. IRL they are limited to ramp angles of 60/80 (60 power and 80 coast) This results in a diff. setting of 40% power and 20% coast. The preload is limited to 30Nm. All of this makes the driving and setup more realistic.
#4: More realistic setups will help us help the devs. It will also limit complaining about unrealistic driving styles and setups. We need to have a realistic car AND setup to diagnose unrealistic problems that we will find.

Sorry for the long, 2 part post!
KartRacer
S3 licensed
The F-BMW uses a sequential gearbox, with it you can, in real-life as well as in LFS, up/down-shift without the clutch.

I've driven a Formula Russell(older F-Mazda) that has a H-pattern Hewland gearbox, both up and down-shifts are possible with out the clutch and in my opinion a bit faster. I do repair them, because I'm in a mechanics program with Jim Russell(the reason I got to drive the car) and even if the wear is slightly more shifting with out the clutch they seem to hold up just fine. The same goes for the new F3/4G63(?) car we are currently assembling/testing, clutchless up and downshifts with its Hewland sequential are common practice. I'm not sure exactly what gearbox is in the F-BMW but my guess is the same shifting techniques apply. Like ajp71 mentioned, rev-matching is extremely important.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
All I'm saying is theres a difference between multiple class racing and multiple car types racing in the same class. The series both work well separate. Even if the cars ran identical lap times at one track, 50bhp is going to make the difference between the cars inconsistent on different tracks.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
If you ever see a sanctioned race between Formula BMW's and Formula Renaults, please stop it. It would be dangerous, you don't race different class open wheel cars together IRL. Back markers in Formula One cause enough problems, imagine that kind of thing constantly, with smaller cars and less experienced drivers! Plus it goes against the whole idea of a "feeder" type series. You would have drivers switching cars for different tracks, teams complaining about equality, not to mention manufacturers trying to split the small marketing gain they are getting from a "feeder" open wheel series.

They are separate and "spec" for a reason in real life. The reasons apply to LFS as well; more predictable cars on track,better competition, equality and simplicity. That all adds up to better racing!
KartRacer
S3 licensed
I'm just excited about engine inertia, hopefully no more ridiculous down shifts....like 6th-1st as fast as you can. The engine will hopefully "try harder" to keep rotating at the same speed, in turn making it easier to lock up or not brake quick enough. Blips will be more important. Hotlappers were taking advantage of the ability to "shock" the auto-clutch system by down shifting extremely fast, this would keep the clutch in until it reached the car needed for the corner, like skip shifting with an H-pattern. In a real sequential you cannot "skip" shift, you must blip each down shift. Even in an H-pattern gearbox you can still clutch less down shift. Hopefully driving with the auto-clutch off and with out using it in the formula cars will be possible.
KartRacer
S3 licensed
The graphics could be updated. The car selection isn't as great as it could be. The tracks do have a sort of "dull" feeling.

Thankfully, most of those attributes are not priority right now. If they were, we'd end up with a rFactor or Race 07. Don't get me wrong, I play (and enjoy) rFactor,GTR2 and Netkar Pro. Its just that they can't hold my interest for as long as LFS.

I enjoy the other sims, but not as much as I enjoy LFS and to be honest, I probably wasted my money on them. rFactor, GTR2 and NKpro all have different qaulities but tend to lack more than they contain.

GPL was the only sim that had me addicted to just plain driving/racing. Look at the community that sim had and continues to have! Currently that sim is outdated in every way, but with strong physics and a great net code, GPL continues to be one of the best sims around. It had one type of car and around a dozen tracks. The feeling of the physics and the close, competitive, consistent and structured community made for a experience I could never get tired of.

GTR2 has your real cars and your real tracks, but lacks a "connection" feeling if you ask me. I don't feel like I'm driving a car. The netcode is horrendous and the cars visibly look like they are floating in and out of the track like boats...even in single player replays sometimes. The times are supposedly close to its real life counterparts, but thats it. Its a "hey look, this is a real car and wow! this sim is so real the times are close to the real thing!"....then you're bored already.

rFactor has the selection, anything you want and anywhere you want. With all that comes a sense of dilution in the actual racing; the racers/leagues/hosts/talent is spread too thin. Not to mention the confusion of matching track versions and mod versions and patches and car version...ahh blah blah...Thats why we don't need tons of cars and tracks yet.
Netkar Pro is a great example of a sim that is and was underhyped and has amazing potential. Sadly, I find it difficult to think that NKpro will or even can make a strong come back, with a community that felt abandoned. No worries there, because we have communication. The dev's are busy, but the still frequent the forums.

You don't think that we've had dozens and dozens of month on end periods without updates since 2002? People have complained about the update frequency ever since the sim first caught on. Thankfully, the dev's stuck to their plan. They've always surprised us with features,listened to our complaints, fixed our issues and concentrated on creating the best online racing simulator there is. That will not stop, this is just a dry time...and tbh....that means they are working on creating, updating and fixing the features that make this sim so great.

I want real tracks, I want real cars, I want more updates and I want better graphics. If they followed those "wants", we would end up with either a sim that has a great selection but too much rough, unfinished and unpolished content(RF), real cars and tracks...but no real "feel"(GTR2),a burnt out development team(Racing Legends,anybody?) or a unpolished abandoned gem(NKP).

Instead, they are building that part of the sim that gets people addicted...that part that lets you "feel" like your driving and that part that allows for great close racing with a great community.

Its difficult to see, but we all love LFS because of things that aren't so apparent at first. Its no surprise that the first thing people notice when they get bored is the lack of visual quality,apparent fictionally based car selection and lack of real world comparisons.

The Developers know what they are doing, the updates are not as frequent right now for a reason. Trust them. They, after all, made the very thing you are thinking about right now. The thing you are spending time reading about, the thing you use enough to get you almost emotionally attached.The thing you beg for more of, because of the feeling this thing called LFS give you. Its the physics and the net code that builds a great sim and this one is being built as I write this. Lets let them and help them create the best online simulation available, in return they will throw us some new content along the way to keep everybody interested. I just hope they continue doing what they have been, because if they do, this sim is only going to get consistently and astonishingly better as time goes on.
Last edited by KartRacer, .
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG