The online racing simulator
2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix
(260 posts, started )
Where does it say qualifying has to be completed in a single file...?

Oh yeah, nowhere. He was 2 seconds a lap quicker or something, and had to get past Maldonado because the two Williams cars were just blocking each other through the Bus Stop. The pass was legitimate. There was barely any contact, Pastor said it himself.

Watching the onboard now, Maldonado got off very lightly...
Indeed, you could've drove the QE2 into the gap that Maldonado left at the bus stop, Hamilton is going for Q3 so goes for the tight apex, Maladonado doesn't like it but it's too late Pastor son - remember, those Williams were already held up by the Lotus so he was hardly going to improve on his time. Pastor was eventually 16th, only 4 tenths behind Sutil but miles behind 15th - wasn't Lewis in the drop zone at that point? Would need to watch it again.
Quote from gezmoor :Except that he made contact. No pass where contact is made can ever be "unquestionably fair". I don't believe that any driver has the right to compromise the driver they're passing in such a way during qualification and claim it was a fair move. That's just my opinion, irrespective of what the rules may say about the situation. I still believe that if it weren't for Maldonados retributive reaction Hamilton would have been given at least a couple of place penalty.

Personally, I think the "fair" response to the whole incident would be a two/three place penalty for Hamilton and a straight DQ/back of the grid placement for Maldonado. They've both gotten off very lightly IMO. F1 is meant to be completely non contact, and any "avoidable" contact should merit a non discretionary place/time penalty. Otherwise F1 is at risk of ending up like BTCC. i.e. filled with over agressive bullying tactics being passed off as "skill".

If someone makes a fair pass, and you don't turn in on them, it's fair. If you don't see them, turn in on them and there is contact, it's still fair, but if you should have seen them, it's your fault. If you turn in in the knowledge that they are there, your actions deserve penalty.

This idea that the car in front can do no wrong whilst being passed just leads to confusion. All that matters is track position.
Quote from gezmoor :Except that he made contact. No pass where contact is made can ever be "unquestionably fair". I don't believe that any driver has the right to compromise the driver they're passing in such a way during qualification and claim it was a fair move. That's just my opinion, irrespective of what the rules may say about the situation. I still believe that if it weren't for Maldonados retributive reaction Hamilton would have been given at least a couple of place penalty.

Personally, I think the "fair" response to the whole incident would be a two/three place penalty for Hamilton and a straight DQ/back of the grid placement for Maldonado. They've both gotten off very lightly IMO. F1 is meant to be completely non contact, and any "avoidable" contact should merit a non discretionary place/time penalty. Otherwise F1 is at risk of ending up like BTCC. i.e. filled with over agressive bullying tactics being passed off as "skill".

It takes two to tangle, it can't just be the person behinds fault, in fact what you are saying sounds like random garbage to try justify blamming Hamilton for it.
I honestly don't know what the stewards were thinking. The penalties throughout the season have been quite light at times but this -5 position penalty for Maldonado should've at least been a -10.

Hamilton's warning is just weird. His pass with Maldonado was fair. It was rude but that's what it's supposed to be when you're fighting for places in qualifying. I just can't see the penalty being given because of the pass. I didn't see Hamilton do anything when Maldonado cut him but I understood that his warning was given because he was also causing the collision by his way of driving. Maybe the stewards have another cameras or statistics that show Hamilton turning in on Maldonado or something. Because we can't see all the data the stewards have it's always guessing. My opinion is though that this time Hamilton did not deserve a warning.

I think it's time that every time the stewards make a decision we should be able to see every bit of information that the stewards use to make the decision.
Either Maldonado is very lucky to get away with causing a collision on purpose, or so stupid that he forgot the track has a curve in it. In my opinion Maldonado should have been banned from taking part in the race at a minimum. When I saw it I thought they could potentially throw the book at him and even chuck him out of the championship, I never expected to come back home from work and see that he got a 5 place grid penalty. You get the same penalty for changing too many gearboxes, or blocking someone on a fast lap in qualifying.
#83 - CSF
Maldonado has previous brainless/dangerous behaviour on his record let's not forget...... Seems to lose it occasionally.
Okay so maybe Maldonado is just a tool, not even a tool actually, tools are useful and get the job done, he is a lot more like a slug with brain damage.
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :... I never expected to come back home from work and see that he got a 5 place grid penalty. You get the same penalty for changing too many gearboxes, or blocking someone on a fast lap in qualifying.

^ This.


Unbelievable.
Even more so after seeing the other vids of previous crazy stuff he's caused.
1 Race ban would be the start if it was up to me.
That's ridiculous. It should be a one-race ban and a massive fine at least. It's the same penalty someone gets for obstructing someone in quali (or not, if it's a Ferrari at Monza). Totally ridiculous.
Nascar formula racing here we come. Let them boys sort it out themselves.
Quote from Hyperactive :Nascar formula racing here we come. Let them boys sort it out themselves.

Yeah! GET SOME!



Meh, not good for single seaters lol
Quote from sinbad :If someone makes a fair pass, and you don't turn in on them, it's fair. If you don't see them, turn in on them and there is contact, it's still fair, but if you should have seen them, it's your fault. If you turn in in the knowledge that they are there, your actions deserve penalty.

This idea that the car in front can do no wrong whilst being passed just leads to confusion. All that matters is track position.

+1

I think it hard to believe that people still think the driver being overtaken has absolutely NO responsibility at ALL times.

When I race if I leave a gap and someone takes it and I turn in, I'm the idiot. In fact this very thing happened to me a few months ago. I thought I was defending hard, some dude came right up the inside, we touched. I was a tad narked, but after reviewing some pictures I did actually leave a gap and that's fair enough. it's a little thing called.... racing.

In racing there is a shared responsibility. Yes the overtaker has the greater responsibility, but he can't direct the actions of the driver in front, and on occasion the driver in front instigates the contact.
From this point of view Hamilton first twitches when Maldonado initiates the overtake (almost collecting him in the gearbox), then steers in to him as he passes. (it looks the other way from other angles though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4_-vA5jKjA&NR=1
Lewis shouldn't have swerved after La Source though, inciting Maldonado, that's what his reprimand is for.
Hence why Pastor didn't get a bigger penalty. If they gave him a big penalty they would have had to have given Hamilton a real one too, which I don't think was really on the table.
Tips for the race
  • Di Resta to finish in the points from 18th
  • Lewis to win from 2nd (like last year)
  • Kobayashi to power slide out of the last chicane while overtaking a HRT
Button is going to be tough to beat if the weather changes during the race. If it stays wet hamilton will take it. Although button needs a safety car for that. Webber is very unpredictable so I say he will finish 3rd and vettel is 2nd.

Senna has been super this weekend and if he can finish better than petrov in a fair race then I'll have to take back some bad things I have said about him.

Interesting to see how high alonso ends up. And how low massa drops

---
Here's the tv view of the incident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qek88QxYbW0

Imho hamilton maybe did slide a bit wide in the hairpin. And in the aftermath I don't know if hamilton brake checked pastor but there are clearly two swerves - one for each. Pastor definitely is fully responsible for hitting lewis but lewis does not look so innocent.

The pass was imho still perfectly legit in the hairpin.
They're off. Rosberg makes a perfect 1st lap!
Sniff Petrol twitter - "Heidfeld is in the Lotus Renault Lotus pit garage whispering "I vouldn't had done zat" into people's ears"
Wow....what a couple of corners there from Alonso/Massa/Hamilton

2011 Formula 1 Shell Belgian Grand Prix
(260 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG