The online racing simulator
Just can't keep quiet..
(133 posts, started )
#1 - scipy
Just can't keep quiet..
Dear Scawen,

For the probably first time ever, I have to hand it to you.. massive respect for not cracking under hater's pressure and releasing the tire model before you feel it's ready.

As you might know, iRacing 2.0 came out officially and I've been able to try their "updates". My opinion of iRacing has always been that it's too expensive (for what it offers, I'd gladly pay for everything if LFS physics model was behind it), too restrictive as far as what you can drive and when, too restrictive as far as their safety rating system goes, generally too SHITTY as far as their physics goes etc. But even I found myself thinking "ok, maybe they'll finally fix the tires and subsequently the rest of the physics" (because if they fixed the tires they'd see their physics model is so shit and they'd have to fix that too) and finally maybe it could get me to start driving the damn thing while I wait for LFS updates..

Glad to report they failed completely. The "new" tire model is almost exactly like the old one, with an added bonus of actually being slightly worse.

The LMP2 car behaves nothing like one would guess it should. It understeers into every fast turn, it suddenly oversteers out of any slow turn, the autoclutch control while starting is just as bad as every other iRacing car with almost no wheelspin possible if u slam on the throttle at idle and then you can't even save the oversteer if you give it some revs before shifting to 1st gear.. even if u completely let go of the throttle and keep the wheel straight.

The Ford GT has some HARD nascar tires with MINIMUM pressure of 2.4 bar that have NO GRIP at all, pressure raise with temp is non existent, wear also, they work best at 130°C. It's basically just a tank that looks like a Ford GT..

Plus, the added bonus of their whole community being split between the guys who actually do some road racing and drove good simulations like LFS and the NASCAR/oval only drivers. The first group is actually beginning to question the product and the people behind if if they released this kind of an update and dared to called it THE NEXT REVOLUTION IN ONLINE RACING, while the ladder doesn't even seem to recognize that anything is wrong and they keep saying everything is great and that it's the best experience ever plus patting themselves and the devs on the back for a great job.

Literally, how could you not notice the car is 10 seconds off from real life race pace and on completely wrong tires? Is the whole development team a cluster of vegetables? What about the beta testers? Wow.

So, when I received a notification email from iRacing today notifying me of their official 2.0 status and a myriad of their great updates I replied back:

"You should be ashamed of yourselves. Especially you Kraemmer. Revolution.. as if."

In spite of some of it's flaws, I believe in LFS as a product now more than ever before. Keep up the slow and good work.
This just nails it, iRacing is really just plainly wrong stuff and expect everyone to like it. Then it takes a week until someone from staff responds and says "I'm glad you all like it"

Greed on the highest Level.

Well that makes a refreshing change.



#8 - v1rg0
Also, the newly added animated steering wheels in multiplayer replays have the wheel off-center in the FW31. It tilts to the right by default (on every PC).

I have a theory as to why this is, but could be entirely wrong. I think Kaemmer is getting data that reads the center point as the literal center, and visually aligns the wheel as such. This would look wrong on ovals where the default position is (perhaps coincidentally) tilted to the right. It's possible that they have added a fake "there or there abouts" visual tilt to the right for oval replays, and either not de-activated it on the FW31 or accidentally added it to that car too. So you end up in the F1 replays with all steering tilted to the right on the straights.

Not a big deal in itself, and probably easily fixed. But combined with everything mentioned in the OP, it's hardly a revolution indeed. It appears a rather sloppy update on the whole with some obvious issues.
Word up.

The Ford GT is by far the biggest mistake they ever released. The minimum tire pressure (in sim) is 35psi, however, the tires HOT (in real life) only reach max 32psi. The cold pressures (in real life) are 20-22psi according to dunlop, michelin, and hoosier tires.

The cars feel broken when it comes to the actual physics of the cars. I've always said that. Something never felt right with the inertia values and whatever else comes with building car physics. The car also "wobbles" alot throughout the corner and on exit. This can also be seen on the oval cars that were put on the "NTM".

The LMP doesn't feel as broken, but it is also not close to being heavily race worthy. The pit limiter isn't even 100% working properly.

The oval cars are a joke too however, don't you worry about that. The tire doesn't heat like it should, and the wear is non existant.

1. Trucks are at Pocono this week running high 58s, however in real life they do 55s. Big difference for an oval.
2. The cars like to "sway" on the exit of the corner. Sure you can fix it in the set, but then you are running slow.
3. The new model was supposed to fix it so we are not driving on the RR tire. However we are back to doing that again. The slip angle hasn't seem to change much at all. If anything it feels easier to save now.
4. Tire drop off from wear is non-existant. We can run a 53.9, and by end of stint be running 54.3's still. That is the worst thing I have ever seen for oval racing. The cars should be running 1.5 seconds slower at the end.

The marketting BS they have pulled from this is just another shot in their foot. They won't be around long performing like this continuously.

EDIT: Just saw your post Jack, noticed that yesterday. The wheel seems to stay static quite a bit in the oval cars. You can't see when it is actually straight or to the right. Seems when the wheel is 10 degrees to the right or less the wheel is shown as straight. Way (for them) to hide the BS for marketting videos.

Here is some more information on tires for the Ford GT.
Quote :

Seems they say 20 to 22psi (137- 151 Kpa) COLD
And 30 to 32psi (206-220 Kpa) HOT
We cant go that low in the GT.

Also they say:
The ideal working temperature range is between 175° F (80° C) and 220° F (104° C) with an optimum inside to outside spread of 20° F (0° C) and with a maximum of 50° F (10°C). In a well-balanced chassis the front and rear tire temperatures should be within 25° F (15° C) with the exception of a rear engine Porsche where the rear tires may run 45° F (25° C) hotter.

I guess that must be an error then in the software.

EDIT: I also checked michelin racing tires and it is about the same pressures they recommend cold and hot.
If you wan't to check it out ... orsport/competition-tires

EDIT2: And dunlop
check under uselfull tips (click learn more)

There are no firm rules for 'Ideal' pressures. Driver, vehicle and circuit all have an influence Indicative COLD pressures as a starting point are:

Single Seater 16 - 18 psi
Sports/GT 22 - 24 psi
Touring Car 24 - 28 psi


In the end, thank you Scawen for having self control and not releasing half-made content. We love the test patch stuff you allow us to test, but even those are farther into production than the iR simulation is currently. Thank you for that.
Although I admit the new tyre model for iR is woeful, I can also admit that I would rather see new things coming out every few weeks to keep people interested.

I have no idea what has caused this massive delay, but LFS is dead on the water, unless "S3" doubles the content and fixes those well known problems then I still can't see it catching up any time soon.

I've no idea how long it's been since that long awaited Scirocco patch, TBH I stopped counting, but what I would like is to see some sort of time line as to when any new content will be released. Or if it is released.

Nice post though Sasa, good to see lickin ass!
Quote :nice post though sasa, good to see lickin ass!

+1 :d
#14 - CSF
Quote from Bawbag :
I've no idea how long it's been since that long awaited Scirocco patch, TBH I stopped counting, but what I would like is to see some sort of time line as to when any new content will be released. Or if it is released.

3 years last week since we have been on these physics... yay
I agree Ray. Even if they just gave us enviroments and we used our new layout stuff that came in the B patch to make our own configs. That would be plenty. Cars don't really bother me as much, it spreads people out, however more tracks are becoming a must here in LFS. I'm not planning to race until then.
My biggest fear is that the new LFS physics end up like iRacing. . But I trust Scawen so we'll see

Go Go Go LFS!
Quote from baSh0r :Meanwhile on iRacing. The Protest Thread where Tony Gardner posts his pathetic comment is closed. ... /225/

Welcome to the dictatorship of iRacing.

Gotta love their "PR" talk.

Quote from kimd41 :My biggest fear is that the new LFS physics end up like iRacing. . But I trust Scawen so we'll see

No way it could fall that far backwards. Honestly. If it wasn't for the laser scanned tracks and the competition that is there, I wouldn't see why people would stay there.

Would hate to see LFS take a turn towards iRacing!

I'm happy with this tyre model, just give us the tracks!

Quote from kimd41 :My biggest fear is that the new LFS physics end up like iRacing. . But I trust Scawen so we'll see

LFS has been always more about perfection and precision rather than making a boatload of money so this is the least of my fears.

It's a sham that iR doesn't have public forums as I'd love to see the excuses of people who suck people's money every month, can hire the top class programmers and physicists and still in an effort to beat all competing online sims manage to screw things up like this
Does this really sound like a complicated system for endurance racing/driver swaps?
+1 Phil/Ray/everyone.

This is a big opportunity for LFS as well if something were to be around the corner, Scawen could nail the market for anyone who knows anything about driving. 100% agree Phil the FGT is a silly joke, I'd expect that around 2002 - at that time it would've been good.

I have no problem with iRacing's structure or their business model or anything like that, but don't throw us this shit and act like it's some amazing step forward when it's not. Maybe if they'd have started with a physical model to begin with they'd have a clue how primitive this is; it really is laughable (and a bit of an insult) to anyone who's been involved in sim racing for any length of time that involves a period PRIOR to iRacing's release.

What a sad, sad, state of affairs. And 100 more "kudos" to Scawen for doing what he's done already. Part of me wishes he'd hire a little real help for the "presentation" side of things since he clearly has a focus and a passion for the underlying fundamental components, but I'd rather drive a silly looking LFS than a graphically better iRacing with much better sound after today.
Welcome back to the healthy state of mind about iRacing BBT.

Just can't keep quiet..
(133 posts, started )