The online racing simulator
[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
Quote from yeager :So i'm not mad, the current effects of slipstreaming are not really noticeable?

If you run a few laps on the oval (e.g.FZR,BF1), you will notice the effects.
There is slipstreaming as well as losing grip, and it not just a little effect.

Strange is that even with very low wing settings the effect doesn't seem to change.
The loss of downforce should be easy enough to notice if you watch the Forces view. Just hop on a server with a few people in downforce cars and do some testing. You should see the downforce diminishing when entering a car's slipstream.
But something like the FOX isn't sensitive to following a car in real life. And you can't 'feel' grip increase with speed in a downforce car. Drafting isn't that noticeable in real life either, other than gaining on the car a bit (already in LFS) and a reduction (or increase) of head buffeting, which LFS can't do until you wear a FFB Helmet.
just a question - with new tyre physics all curent setups will be useless, wont they?
They usually don't become useless, some still even work, but you really need to be changing them to suit the new patch, but we don't know just how drastic the changes will be which could means the setup aren't that bad, or a whole load worse than we thought!
Quote from The Very End :The effect by it were reduced yes.

Ah, ok then. My anecdotal quote was an experience from a couple years ago for sure.
Quote from tiagolapa :Unless you do it in real life, because in LFS you won 5 races... lol have a good life

Wat, where's the difference? LFS wins makes hes ePenis longer? Its the same as some people can do 10x headshots in CS, but in real life theyr gonna crap theyr pants. Maybe not really in lfs, but u know what i mean.
?
#334 - Dac
Quote from hazaky :Wat, where's the difference? LFS wins makes hes ePenis longer? Its the same as some people can do 10x headshots in CS, but in real life theyr gonna crap theyr pants. Maybe not really in lfs, but u know what i mean.

At the moment I would say LFS is only good for teaching you the dynamics of racing, rather than actually making you better skilled at handling a real car. Although I can put some good laps together in LFS and hold my own wheel-to-wheel when I get into a Kart it makes no difference other than I know HOW to race rather than actually being able get the most out of the car.

LFS + Teaching = Win. LFS + Real Racing = Fail. Think what you will of that.
Quote from Dac :At the moment I would say LFS is only good for teaching you the dynamics of racing, rather than actually making you better skilled at handling a real car. Although I can put some good laps together in LFS and hold my own wheel-to-wheel when I get into a Kart it makes no difference other than I know HOW to race rather than actually being able get the most out of the car.

LFS + Teaching = Win. LFS + Real Racing = Fail. Think what you will of that.

That's bollocks, I've allays for been able to "hold my own" at karting since way before I started LFS, but when I started LFS it taught me much more than just holding my own, which meant the next time I'd go karting (arrive and drive though) I would actually be able to reach the limits of the kart. It also meant when I started driving I knew what to do when the rear end started to break away or when surprise under steer bites you in the ass.

I went to knockhill and had some laps in 1.2 single seater, it was great fun but it was even more fun actually knowing how to throw the car around and control over steer when it came around. That was the first RWD 'car' i've properly driven though my experience in LFS gave me confidence to drive it fast.
Quote from Dac :At the moment I would say LFS is only good for teaching you the dynamics of racing, rather than actually making you better skilled at handling a real car. Although I can put some good laps together in LFS and hold my own wheel-to-wheel when I get into a Kart it makes no difference other than I know HOW to race rather than actually being able get the most out of the car.

LFS + Teaching = Win. LFS + Real Racing = Fail. Think what you will of that.

Yes but there's no kart in LFS, except MRT which can be pretty close depending of what kind of kart u drive. And i think the current state of tyre physics affects most to cars with slicks.

But my opinion is that road cars are quite close. If i drive with XFG and then go do laps with my 'track day hatchback', it's really not that far. Not far at all. The weight distribution/moving is pretty much the same (with realistic setup in LFS ofc, try to duplicate irl setup, and no locked diffs ), so it's possible to learn a lot of IRL handling in LFS, depending on car and setup you use.

Of course it's still not the same, g forces and the fact that crashes hurts and costs a lot makes it a very different world. But the basis of handling and weight distribution, which should come from backbone, can be trained with LFS to certain point.

imho.
Quote from Bawbag :That's bollocks, I've allays for been able to "hold my own" at karting since way before I started LFS, but when I started LFS it taught me much more than just holding my own, which meant the next time I'd go karting (arrive and drive though) I would actually be able to reach the limits of the kart. It also meant when I started driving I knew what to do when the rear end started to break away or when surprise under steer bites you in the ass.

I went to knockhill and had some laps in 1.2 single seater, it was great fun but it was even more fun actually knowing how to throw the car around and control over steer when it came around. That was the first RWD 'car' i've properly driven though my experience in LFS gave me confidence to drive it fast.

Do not agree.

LFS increase the Epenis of people and they think beeing good in a game makes them good on the road, it's so wrong on so many parts...

Either way, as a very very very basic way of teaching the absolute basic - yes, but I do strongly disbelive that mastering LFS = Mastering real life full-blood race car.

Edit : But then again, I am drunk so who cares about my opinion anyway :rolleyes:
Quote from The Very End :Do not agree.

LFS increase the Epenis of people and they think beeing good in a game makes them good on the road, it's so wrong on so many parts...

Either way, as a very very very basic way of teaching the absolute basic - yes, but I do strongly disbelive that mastering LFS = Mastering real life full-blood race car.

I never said it made me fast or able to master a real life racing car, what i did say is that it helped in real life, my point was that getting good at LFS makes your more in control when it comes to driving a real car in real life.

It could also be argued that fast people in LFS are fast because they simply have the natural talent to be fast, most fast people in LFS come from racing backgrounds, mainly karting. Though the best argument for the point is Norbi, he got a test drive in a clio cup car simply because he was fast in LFS, when he tested the car he was by far the fastest and got a drive, going on to win 2 seasons. Ask him if he hadn't been found LFS and still got this test drive, if he would of been as fast?...
LFS definitely does teach how to drive closer to the limit in RL. Not because the physics, but the techniques and reaction times are similar to RL. Racing craft isn't the only useful skill that is transferable. The limit of grip may not be the same, but managing grip is similar.

I don't think someone that has only played LFS could jump into a car or a go-kart and drive at the limit. However, in my case practicing with LFS definitely gave me the "know how" when I first went to a real kart track with a real racing go-kart (80cc shifter).
Quote from legoflamb :LFS definitely does teach how to drive closer to the limit in RL. Not because the physics, but the techniques and reaction times are similar to RL. Racing craft isn't the only useful skill that is transferable. The limit of grip may not be the same, but managing grip is similar.

I totally agree..

Maybe it could be compared to driving different cars in LFS, if you first learn to be very fast with XRG and then switch to XRT, you are much faster than if you haven't driven the XRG first.

In small details it's totally different, but still same enough to help a lot.

You can't get super fast XRT driver by practicing with XRG. You can't get super fast irl go kart driver by practicing in LFS. But it helps.

Quote from The Very End :
LFS increase the Epenis of people and they think beeing good in a game makes them good on the road, it's so wrong on so many parts...

In the road safer equals better.. faster usually equals worst. leave the racing to track plz.
I agree with Ray. LFS teaches you car control which you can apply to real life, along with many other things. Of course before you push the limits IRL you have to get accustomed to the difference in feel, and especially the feedback sensory overload, but once you do that, you can apply your knowledge from driving in LFS (or any other realistic sim for that matter).

Most people are really taken by suprise the moment they have to start controlling the rear end of a vehicle by countersteering. Anyone who's competant with LFS won't have this problem.
Quote from zeromussov :lal, ok.. + FZ/GTR/FXO interior updates

Who cares about the interior?
All we need is a realistic physicsystem.
The physics of LFS were and will be the best ones for ages in racing sims.
Thats why i "play" LFS.
I dont give a sh*t on graphics.
#343 - Dac
Quote from Bawbag :That's bollocks, I've allays for been able to "hold my own" at karting since way before I started LFS, but when I started LFS it taught me much more than just holding my own, which meant the next time I'd go karting (arrive and drive though) I would actually be able to reach the limits of the kart. It also meant when I started driving I knew what to do when the rear end started to break away or when surprise under steer bites you in the ass.

I went to knockhill and had some laps in 1.2 single seater, it was great fun but it was even more fun actually knowing how to throw the car around and control over steer when it came around. That was the first RWD 'car' i've properly driven though my experience in LFS gave me confidence to drive it fast.

What you have just said is "bollocks" actually, if you were karting way before you started playing LFS then it's completely different to what I said in my post was it!
#344 - Dac
Quote from The Very End :Do not agree.

LFS increase the Epenis of people and they think beeing good in a game makes them good on the road, it's so wrong on so many parts...

Either way, as a very very very basic way of teaching the absolute basic - yes, but I do strongly disbelive that mastering LFS = Mastering real life full-blood race car.

Edit : But then again, I am drunk so who cares about my opinion anyway :rolleyes:

Quote from DaveWS :I agree with Ray. LFS teaches you car control which you can apply to real life, along with many other things. Of course before you push the limits IRL you have to get accustomed to the difference in feel, and especially the feedback sensory overload, but once you do that, you can apply your knowledge from driving in LFS (or any other realistic sim for that matter).

Most people are really taken by suprise the moment they have to start controlling the rear end of a vehicle by countersteering. Anyone who's competant with LFS won't have this problem.

Exactly my point. LFS teaches you HOW to control a car but it does not give you the necessary experience to apply it to real cars. A basic example, if a total noob started playing LFS, then went into a real car on a real track he would know how to control the car, but he would be starting at level zero in terms of being able to control it simply because the sensation, feeling and physics are not directly transferable to real life.
#345 - Dac
Quote from Bawbag :
It could also be argued that fast people in LFS are fast because they simply have the natural talent to be fast, most fast people in LFS come from racing backgrounds, mainly karting. Though the best argument for the point is Norbi, he got a test drive in a clio cup car simply because he was fast in LFS, when he tested the car he was by far the fastest and got a drive, going on to win 2 seasons. Ask him if he hadn't been found LFS and still got this test drive, if he would of been as fast?...

Unfortunately i'd like that to be true but I can't believe it. Fast people in LFS are almost always the ones who have done a ridiculous amount of mileage compared to the others. If you play COD all day everyday you will ace it, but stick you in a real war with real guns and you'd get your head blown off!

There's a video on youtube where Nico Rosberg was racing people on a racing simulator and was sick of getting beaten by the general public, as he said "bankers etc". If your theory was true then Nico should have been much faster than the average joe on a simulator.
C-c-combo breaker!

continues waiting for physics...
Quote from DaveWS :I agree with Ray. LFS teaches you car control which you can apply to real life, along with many other things. Of course before you push the limits IRL you have to get accustomed to the difference in feel, and especially the feedback sensory overload, but once you do that, you can apply your knowledge from driving in LFS (or any other realistic sim for that matter).

Most people are really taken by suprise the moment they have to start controlling the rear end of a vehicle by countersteering. Anyone who's competant with LFS won't have this problem.

exactly, it helped me alot in karting too.
Quote from Dac :Unfortunately i'd like that to be true but I can't believe it. Fast people in LFS are almost always the ones who have done a ridiculous amount of mileage compared to the others. If you play COD all day everyday you will ace it, but stick you in a real war with real guns and you'd get your head blown off!

Very, very bad example, because a) as far as racing sims and RL racing are apart, the handling of weapons in a shooter (a quite arcade one at that) and in reality is far more different - there are universes between them... B), real wars usually aren't scripted to have shelling go off when you currently are in a safe spot (not that there are many of them with real shrapnels flying around)... And c), pointing an arbitrary reticle with a mouse or a thumbstick at the avatar of a foe is quite another thing than pressing a rifle into your shoulder and aim over iron sights without any FOV or zoom change - don't even get me started on the virtual representation of accuracy, damage or recoil or the human regenerative ability for that matter...

Quote from Dac :There's a video on youtube where Nico Rosberg was racing people on a racing simulator and was sick of getting beaten by the general public, as he said "bankers etc". If your theory was true then Nico should have been much faster than the average joe on a simulator.

No, not if he's relying on the "sensory overload", as you called it... If he'd be given time to adjust to the lack of g-forces and the like, I'm pretty sure he would be near the top - I really don't believe he spent all the time in the Williams-simulator for nothing... Which brings me to my next point: if F1 teams didn't think their drivers would benefit from simulators, they wouldn't spend a considerable part of their budget to get simulators, let alone test new parts in the sim with the drivers...
#349 - Dac
Quote from bbman :Very, very bad example, because a) as far as racing sims and RL racing are apart, the handling of weapons in a shooter (a quite arcade one at that) and in reality is far more different - there are universes between them... B), real wars usually aren't scripted to have shelling go off when you currently are in a safe spot (not that there are many of them with real shrapnels flying around)... And c), pointing an arbitrary reticle with a mouse or a thumbstick at the avatar of a foe is quite another thing than pressing a rifle into your shoulder and aim over iron sights without any FOV or zoom change - don't even get me started on the virtual representation of accuracy, damage or recoil or the human regenerative ability for that matter...

It was an example used to illustrate my point, I was not making a comparison! I honestly don't know how anybody would want to spend time debating here because it usually ends up too literal without making any progress. The example served it's purpose, so stop being so argumentative.

Quote from bbman :No, not if he's relying on the "sensory overload", as you called it... If he'd be given time to adjust to the lack of g-forces and the like, I'm pretty sure he would be near the top - I really don't believe he spent all the time in the Williams-simulator for nothing... Which brings me to my next point: if F1 teams didn't think their drivers would benefit from simulators, they wouldn't spend a considerable part of their budget to get simulators, let alone test new parts in the sim with the drivers...

As far as i'm aware no F1 driver has trained on a racing simulator. They use it for a difference purpose, Lewis Hamilton uses them as a tool to learn the track, different setups and strategies etc. Without actually having the RL experience he has got he would be useless. In fact he wouldn't even be competitive in a Kart. And that was my point. You cannot use LFS and then step into a RL car thinking you can control it, you may know the dynamics of racing through LFS but you don't have the necessary skill and experience to apply it directly to RL, for that you need actual RL experience, at least at the moment you do.
Quote from Dac :It was an example used to illustrate my point, I was not making a comparison! I honestly don't know how anybody would want to spend time debating here because it usually ends up too literal without making any progress. The example served it's purpose, so stop being so argumentative.

OK, I made a mental note not to care about the illustrations to your arguments as they are completely unrelated to the discussion at hand...

Quote from Dac :As far as i'm aware no F1 driver has trained on a racing simulator. They use it for a difference purpose, Lewis Hamilton uses them as a tool to learn the track, different setups and strategies etc. Without actually having the RL experience he has got he would be useless. In fact he wouldn't even be competitive in a Kart. And that was my point. You cannot use LFS and then step into a RL car thinking you can control it, you may know the dynamics of racing through LFS but you don't have the necessary skill and experience to apply it directly to RL, for that you need actual RL experience, at least at the moment you do.

How is knowing the dynamics not beneficial without even having RL experience? It gives you a clear target to aim for and you also know what to do if you accidentally overshot... Is that not an advantage you clearly have and you can use to be competitive? It doesn't make you the second Schumacher, but that's not the point in contention... Best example: on every karting meet the ÖLFSM organized, all of us would lap at least one second faster on an under 1 minute course than the average joe there... Would we win trophies in karting leagues? Probably not... Were we a lot closer to the limit thus more competitive just from practice in the sim (the real point that's been discussed here)? Definitely.
This thread is closed

[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG