holy crap, missed this Qualifiying and massa nearly gets killed!

holy crap, also seems to be the similar thing that happened to henry only the suspention.

Quote from BenjiMC :

i guess i should take back my comment now. More serious than i thought it was.

salute you sir

it takes a big man to admit he was wrong

no hard feelings i hope

I've read news stating that Massa did have a brain damage due to the accident (stated by doctors after the surgery), which extent is still to be confirmed by further examination.


I've read also that the part that flew to Massa's helmet was a spring from Barrichello suspension, with about 10cm x 5cm size and 1kg.


It's quite a shame that this kind of part of a car can break on a qualifying session. Looks like Brawn overlooked details on Barrichello's car assembly.

Anyway, let's hope that this brain damage is small and not permanent.

Quote from Mogar :

Looks like Brawn overlooked details on Barrichello's car assembly.

Unlikely, parts just fail, as they say, once a vehicle comes off the assembly line, it is just waiting to kill you, you will just never known when. If it has a moving part it can be broken, no matter what efforts are taken to meet the high standards, look at NASA and the amount of shuttles that have gone bang.

Also link, more on Massa's condition.

I've made a better (but larger) video with a better deinterlacing and double the frame rate (so no temporal resolution loss) than the previous one I've posted in this thread.
At the end of the video you can see something falling off Barichello's car and bouncing like mad on the track.

Link:
http://www.zshare.net/download/6315051716192ce3

He's lucky he managed to regain consciousness in time to slam on the brakes and down the gears.

Had he been knocked out and kept the throttle open he would be dead. Even in a 2009 F1 car three rows of tyres aren't going to keep you alive at 200mph.

Massa has undergone successful surgery and will now remain under observation in the intensive care unit at the AEK hospital in Budapest.

Source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77288

Oh and he did jam the throttle wide open when the spring hit him, but he also jammed on the brakes.

Jack, I noticed that too, but I'm not sure that he pressed the brakes. I guess is something like a electronic control, or with the impact, the brain (lol) ordered him to press brake, w/e, just Massa and/or Ferrari know that right now.

The strange about the brakes is that it comes to 0% to 100% instantly, that makes me think that it was not pressed by driver, and the throttle wasn't pressed fully too like brake was.

The onboard data recording doesn't show (to us) brake pressure, merely brakes on or off. It's never shown how a driver uses the brakes, only when he does so.

He obviously hit the brake pedal, but caught some of the throttle with his foot, which pressed it a bit (but not 100%). He probably wasn't in a condition to allow him more accurate control of his feet.

As he hits the wall, and breaks the brake lines, the pressure falls away to nothing and the light goes off. The pedal will then go to the floor, allowing his foot (which I guess is pressing like mad because of the pain (and maybe brain injuries causing his leg to spasm a bit, but I hope not)) to fully press the throttle.

I've seen the pictures and videos, and I hope that he's okay soon. James Allen is saying (on twitter) not to pay attention to the Sky News story about him being in a life threatening condition, which I suppose is a good thing.

I might be wrong but I think they work out the brakes/throttle thing for the tone of the engine, so it's definitely not an accurate metric.

Brakes are shown only fully on or off, I think it was the previous GP they said that on the commentary.

Quote from tristancliffe :

James Allen is saying (on twitter) not to pay attention to the Sky News story about him being in a life threatening condition, which I suppose is a good thing.

Massa's in worse condition, he's on breathe machine (Latest news from the hospital)

Quote from tristancliffe :

The onboard data recording doesn't show (to us) brake pressure, merely brakes on or off. It's never shown how a driver uses the brakes, only when he does so.

He obviously hit the brake pedal, but caught some of the throttle with his foot, which pressed it a bit (but not 100%). He probably wasn't in a condition to allow him more accurate control of his feet.

As he hits the wall, and breaks the brake lines, the pressure falls away to nothing and the light goes off. The pedal will then go to the floor, allowing his foot (which I guess is pressing like mad because of the pain (and maybe brain injuries causing his leg to spasm a bit, but I hope not)) to fully press the throttle.

I've seen the pictures and videos, and I hope that he's okay soon. James Allen is saying (on twitter) not to pay attention to the Sky News story about him being in a life threatening condition, which I suppose is a good thing.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Brakes are shown only fully on or off, I think it was the previous GP they said that on the commentary.

Well, I can only remember once when I saw Michael Schumacher doing a "Punta-taco" (dunno if it applies, because the clutch was on Steering Wheel) and that only a part of the brakes was pressed, I'm almost sure.

And NotAnIllusion, infortunately the race narrator in Brazil is such a d... He only says bull...

I have feeling the finger pointing will start tomorrow & Brawn could be in quite a bit of trouble. This is Formula One the pinnacle of motorsport, parts should not be falling of the cars under normal conditions.

The FIA have the spring that hit Massa & Brawn have said they need to have a look at it before they can figure out how it came loose. I wouldn't want to be the mechanic who last fiddled with that damper , this accident could have been a lot worse.

Accidents happen for christ's sake, that kind of thing could happen at any team.

And now a minor distraction from this whole horrible business, the qualifying weights.

Quote :

1. Alonso Renault F1 637.5
2. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 655.0
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault 652.0
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 650.5
5. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 654.0
6. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 655.5
7. Raikkonen Ferrari 651.5
8. Button Brawn-Mercedes 664.5
9. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 658.0
10. Massa Ferrari
11. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 671.5
12. Trulli Toyota 671.3
13. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 689.0
14. Glock Toyota 679.2
15. Piquet Renault F1 667.7
16. Heidfeld BMW Sauber 658.0
17. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 680.5
18. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 683.5
19. Kubica BMW Sauber 666.0
20. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 675.5

Can you spot who is going to have to stop early?

Button is a bit heavier than the majority of the top 10, which may play into Brawn's hands tomorrow, Brawn really do have to do something about their performance pretty urgently.

Kubica has the number of the beast.

Quote :

Well, I can only remember once when I saw Michael Schumacher doing a "Punta-taco" (dunno if it applies, because the clutch was on Steering Wheel) and that only a part of the brakes was pressed, I'm almost sure.

And NotAnIllusion, infortunately the race narrator in Brazil is such a d... He only says bull...

I also think I've seen once the brakes being shown on TV with more detail, but today it's just on/off. Maybe the old system wasn't accurate enough

Quote from anttt69 :

I have feeling the finger pointing will start tomorrow & Brawn could be in quite a bit of trouble. This is Formula One the pinnacle of motorsport, parts should not be falling of the cars under normal conditions.

The FIA have the spring that hit Massa & Brawn have said they need to have a look at it before they can figure out how it came loose. I wouldn't want to be the mechanic who last fiddled with that damper , this accident could have been a lot worse.

I remember once Sauber withdrawing their participation from a GP when they noticed their rearwings were to unstable... if it has mechanical reasons that this spring came off, I'd rather like Brawn to DNS then to start... if it has human failure reasons, the guy should be judged within the team...

PS: When watching it, I thought it would be last sunday again

Quote from anttt69 :

I have feeling the finger pointing will start tomorrow & Brawn could be in quite a bit of trouble. This is Formula One the pinnacle of motorsport, parts should not be falling of the cars under normal conditions.

With all due respect Ferrari were the team last year that came under attack for allowing Kimi to drive with a flapping piece of metal. The fact the officials allowed it, is in even more alarming. I for one was disgusted he was allowed to continue racing, and what we've seen today my worries were fully justified.

But bits falls of in motorsport it happens. There's so much stress etc... it's nearly impossible to stop things happening from time to time. I don't think Brawn should be unfairly targeted

Didn't the Prancing Horse drop a shoe (wheel hub) at some point too? Things can fall off, but they should definitely be looked at by a 3rd party to ensure these things are a one-off and that no corners are being cut at the expense of driver safety.

On James Allens' Twitter:

'Massa's doctor reporting to Brazilian media that brain scan is clear and signs are positive. Family is en route to Hungary now'

I agree with you about the stressful environment in the garages but I cannot remember a single incident where something fell of an F1 car under normal racing conditions (i.e not as a result of a collision or a car going off the track)

It would be nice to know if it was human error or a faulty part.

Wheels have fallen off cars under normal race conditions due to not being tourqued on properly, as we all know loose wheels are no fun.

Quote from spookthehamster :

He's lucky he managed to regain consciousness in time to slam on the brakes and down the gears.

Had he been knocked out and kept the throttle open he would be dead. Even in a 2009 F1 car three rows of tyres aren't going to keep you alive at 200mph.

200kph is the speed he was doin at least, thats what Brundle said.

That is really sad, and I am not even a Massa fan myself. I hope he recovers soon!

After 2 of those sort of accidents, does anyone think open wheelers should have roofs?

Quote from Furiously-Fast :

..does anyone think open wheelers should have roofs?

Are you serious?

Racing is dangerous, you can't remove that totally.