McLaren didn't 'ask' for the place back.

They specifically and knowingly lied to the stewards in order to try to get it.

Yes, that's cheating.

Quote from amp88 :

Why wouldn't McLaren appeal the decision if they thought the FIA were lying? They're not appealing because they know they made a mistake and they know they'll lose.

Why would McLaren say they didn't make Hamilton pull over if the FiA can get the radio conversation anyway? Who has more power, the FiA or McLaren? Yea, I thought so too.

I feel like i need to join in and start having a go at Ferrari fans and FIA, but something deep inside me is saying no

Quote from BlueFlame :

Why would McLaren say they didn't make Hamilton pull over if the FiA can get the radio conversation anyway? Who has more power, the FiA or McLaren? Yea, I thought so too.

Are you actually using that as a counterpoint to what I just said? Really? That's the best you can actually come up with?

Quote from BlueFlame :

What instruction?

the one youd know about if you had actually read the links posted in the thread ffs

Quote :

but he's got morals, they got him into F1 and he won't forget that in a hurry.

if he had morals he wouldnt lie and wouldnt **** up trullis race by doing so

People who are talking about honesty and morals need to get a freakin' grip. This is motorsport! You leave your morals at the door!

There are rules, Macca appear to have broke em. End of. Lets not get on our moral high horses because quite a few drivers on that grid I am sure will have little things in their past they are not to happy about.

Quote from amp88 :

Why wouldn't McLaren appeal the decision if they thought the FIA were lying? They're not appealing because they know they made a mistake and they know they'll lose.

Even if they thought the FIA was lying, it would be a waste of time and money. They probably wouldn't win the appeal anyway, and they need to focus their time and energy on fixing their car. Even if they won the appeal and Hamilton got his 3rd or 4th place back, that's "only" 6 constructors points and nothing towards the drivers' championship (most wins system).

nope! the most win system was ditched !

Quote from ultrataco :

Even if they thought the FIA was lying, it would be a waste of time and money. They probably wouldn't win the appeal anyway, and they need to focus their time and energy on fixing their car.

The personnel who would put together the appeal would not be those who are working on fixing the car. The only people who would appear on both would be the management and they do not need to spent 100% of their time sitting next to the aerodynamacists making sure they're doing their sums right.

Quote from ultrataco :

Even if they won the appeal and Hamilton got his 3rd or 4th place back, that's "only" 6 constructors points

Given the current state of their car 6 constructor points could be a significant portion of the total points they'll score this season. Even if they expect to score a lot more they would definitely file an appeal if they thought they would win. The teams spend hundreds of millions to design a car to score points. No way they'd leave 6 points on the table if they thought they had a reasonable chance of getting them.

Quote from ultrataco :

and nothing towards the drivers' championship (most wins system).

The most wins system has been scrapped, hasn't it?

Quote from http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8681/ :

The drivers' and constructors' championship titles are awarded to the driver and constructor who score the most points over the course of the season.

I wonder how much hatred will McLaren and Lewis receive for that...this team is not what it used to be anymore...

Quote from amp88 :

The personnel who would put together the appeal would not be those who are working on fixing the car. The only people who would appear on both would be the management and they do not need to spent 100% of their time sitting next to the aerodynamacists making sure they're doing their sums right.

Given the current state of their car 6 constructor points could be a significant portion of the total points they'll score this season. Even if they expect to score a lot more they would definitely file an appeal if they thought they would win. The teams spend hundreds of millions to design a car to score points. No way they'd leave 6 points on the table if they thought they had a reasonable chance of getting them.

ok, fair enough. i won't argue with that.

Quote from amp88 :

The most wins system has been scrapped, hasn't it?

Quote from Intrepid :

nope! the most win system was ditched !

Really?! How'd I miss that? Oh, well. I'll be sure to complain about it next year then.

Thought this was interesting: Martin Whitmarsh interviewed about the incident.

Quote from amp88 :

The cheating part is because they (Hamilton and Dave Ryan) both lied to the stewards, saying they hadn't let Trulli back through.

Oh dear.

If that's the case, then I must concede that they were foolish.

The FIA certainly don't need any help when it comes to penalising McLaren. They generally manage quite well by themselves.

Another interesting interview from Eddie Jordan.

edit: And another clip which includes Trulli passing Hamilton.

Quote from amp88 :

edit: And another clip which includes Trulli passing Hamilton.

"Sorry, this media is not available in your territory." :grumpy:

Quote from amp88 :

Apart from lying to the stewards.

So you think that if a team boss tells the driver to say something in a high pressure meeting, the driver is going to directly contradict him in front of the FIA?

Doubt it. There's not a man on the grid who would.

Quote from J.B. :

I just wonder wth Whitmarsh is on about?

Ok, I've found the answer for this. His comments were made before the FIA decision was released. In fact McLaren haven't reacted in any way since the FIA release...

So it looks like there's only two possibilities. Either they have to admit to lying or they need to pursue legal action. Or they can of course refuse to comment at all.

Are there no limits ...

To the extent Mclaren and Hamilton will go to to repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot?

As much as I like Mclaren because of the brilliant things they have achieved over the years, lately they're just annoying by being silly.

Wether the FIA gives other teams the same amount of wrist slapping for the same offences remains to be seen.

Quote from 5haz :

Are there no limits ...

To the extent Mclaren and Hamilton will go to to repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot?

exactly

Quote from 5haz :

Are there no limits ...

To the extent Mclaren and Hamilton will go to to repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot?

As much as I like Mclaren because of the brilliant things they have achieved over the years, lately they're just annoying by being silly.

Wether the FIA gives other teams the same amount of wrist slapping for the same offences remains to be seen.

i must admit i do agree here, mclaren and lewis are very good at shooting themselfves in the foot, either by breaking the rules knowing the fia will come down hard on them especcially or sailing close to the wind knowing the fia will find some way of getting at them.

they really should have learnt by now lol

Quote from J.B. :

Ok, I've found the answer for this. His comments were made before the FIA decision was released. In fact McLaren haven't reacted in any way since the FIA release...

So it looks like there's only two possibilities. Either they have to admit to lying or they need to pursue legal action. Or they can of course refuse to comment at all.

That's possible, maybe the decision had not been released in it's full wording when Whitmarsh was interviewed on the BBC. If so, that would of course explain why the FiA is so open and direct about it and providing the radio comm etc. From their view, this statement by Whitmarsh makes the decision look overly harsh. Who knows, maybe the FiA wouldn't have had released it in the way they did if Whitmarsh had just said "no comment" -- which would have been the smart thing to do.

Quote from Shotglass :

if he had morals he wouldnt lie and wouldnt **** up trullis race by doing so

Dude, are you ****ing kidding me?. You don't know any of the drivers personally yet you're calling this man out for trying to get out of a penalty? This is racing.. aka a highly competitive sport. Rules are bent all the time, get over it and find a better reason to hate.

Quote from WGooden :

Dude, are you ****ing kidding me?. You don't know any of the drivers personally yet you're calling this man out for trying to get out of a penalty?

Why should he have gotten a penalty for "admitting" that he let Trulli past on purpose? He just would have kept his 4th place, maybe they would have even switched Trulli and him so he gets 3rd.
What he did wasn't trying to get out of a penalty but talking himself into a penalty.

Quote from Intrepid :

I find it odd how the FIA are sensationalising this. The releases and language used are somewhat provocative

Let's not forget that Schumacher in 06 lied to the stewards by pretending he had a problem with his car. This is no different, and considering it was of greater significance the FIA were much more low-key in their approach to his punishment.

How the **** was Monaco 06 low key, people still talk about it, that and even though its obvious shumacher lied they never proved it.

This is much more signifcant becuase there is actual proof to use against them.

If Trulli hasn't got 6 points by race time on sunday This is BS.

edit: he does already