The online racing simulator
I had tried a lot of MODs, the most voted Mods and I feel ever the same, I feel all cars idem, only change handle and bhp, it feels like a same car ever with diferent setup.

But, how I don't drive a porsche, a F1 or V8, but I have a shifter kart 50bhp, I had tried the Kart MOD, voted with 4,5 stars over 5. Well, if I have to vote this MOD for realism, my vote are 1,5 over 5. I don't like MRT in LFS but it is more similar to a kart than a kart from the best kart mod of rFactor. Conclusion rFactor is an ARCADE game.

PD: I tried this mod with my G25 and three LCDs
At this time I play

Live For Speed
Gran Turismo 4 and 5P
Need For Speed II Special Edition

my opinion is whatever... I don't care if GT5P is not realistic.

Gran Turismo is always Gran Turismo. I you don't like it, fine then. But I play it
Ikaponthus, I see that you don't have any HL in LfsWorld, and any race in online mode. I searched becouse I tried Caterham mod in rFactor and is like all other mods a bullsh*t, I don't feel in any point that Caterham rFactor are same that LX4 or LX6 LFS, are really diferent!

You need to race more with LFS to feel better
Quote from yoyoML :By your logic, in LFS people could be controlling racing machines with a mouse and winning races!!! So LFS is not a sim.

Yes that would be true ... if people are controlling racing machines with the mouse and winning races, that is. I asked before, does anyone here race with the mouse/gamepad and race effectively? If so, I'd be interested to hear about it (seriously), so speak up and tell us your best lap-times.
Quote from UnknownMaster21 :At this time I play

Live For Speed
Gran Turismo 4 and 5P
Need For Speed II Special Edition

my opinion is whatever... I don't care if GT5P is not realistic.

Gran Turismo is always Gran Turismo. I you don't like it, fine then. But I play it

No problems. I probably would like it if I played it, but I have serious doubts about it being a proper racing sim, that's all.

Especially if it contains F1 cars that catch huge air and drive like off-road buggies.
You can jump the F1 car in LFS.

On the topic of GT5P: I played it using my g25 and after you update to the latest version it's actually not a bad simulation. The FFB is so-so but the physics is not that far off LFS. Although, the shitty online, no damage and laughable collision model makes this sim worthless for anything but time trials. Still .. there is some fun to be had here ... i'm awaiting the full version.
Interesting how people bother to argue so much about things like this.
May I add a one spoon more to the soup and tell my views now?

I don't really have telemetry or anything real physical facts, but this is how I judge these games.
I sometimes take my own car for a spin and go nuts in gravel/snow/asphalt IRL and basically a game what feels most like same than this is the best for me. I'm using G25.

LFS is very good, I can feel the weight of the car, it tells me the same things thru steering wheel than my car does IRL. RWD cars do all logically how they should and I'm really connected to the car.
Basic RWD cars are easy to control like IRL. Tho not too easy.

rFactor is very good also. It took me many years to finally realise that, I hated rF before because I just couldn't configure controls, FFB and the car itself properly and actually it was Niel's Corvette what was the first mod with proper physics I think.
IE. the RWD Fords in HistoriX mod really feel good, FFB is just like in LFS and I feel connected to the cars and they do things like they should IRL. I don't even seem to get that "spin of death" or whatsoever. LFS feels a just bit more connected, somehow in rF cars feel a bit lighter but it's still very good.
Basic RWD cars are easy to control like IRL. Tho not too easy.

GT5, well I haven't played it. If I would own a PS3 I would probably get it, for some light fun, but not for a serious sim. I hope I can test this game someday.
Looking a video isn't the best way to judge, but for what I have seen the cars just seem to handle very unnaturally and I can't believe this games physics are gonna be that awesome really.
Well, I have tryed GT5p. Not the full version, but I feel very connected to the car when driving, just like in LFS. The cars react more realisticly to how they do in rfactor, with the exception of Niels' mods.

Apparently there is going to be an update to GT5p which includes damage.
^ thats a 30% chance thanks to ferrari
Quote from Gills4life :Well, I have tryed GT5p. Not the full version, but I feel very connected to the car when driving, just like in LFS. The cars react more realisticly to how they do in rfactor, with the exception of Niels' mods.

Apparently there is going to be an update to GT5p which includes damage.

Is correct, Ferrari won't like it though.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :You can jump the F1 car in LFS.


How? I couldn't.

Which track and where?

Anyway, I'm not saying LFS is a perfect sim either. If people can drive it with a gamepad or mouse and race well, then I dare say LFS is not a very good sim either. I'm just not so sure anyone can actually do that in LFS. I've asked multiple times if anyone here races well with a mouse/gamepad, and asked them to post some lap times, and so far there's been no takers...

... in comparison, GT5 is made to be played well with a gamepad. If there's kids (and I have nothing against kids, just using them as an example because they can't even drive a real car yet) who are capable of winning races in GT5 with a gamepad, then logic suggest it just aint no sim, period. Consider how much a steering wheel costs in a real F1 car ... I forget the actual number but it's something ridiculous ... $100,000 or something, just for the steering wheel. If only they knew they could use a playstation gamepad instead...!

Do a YouTube search for the Top Gear episode where they drive the F1 car. This is a guy whose whole life and profession revolves around cars. He's driven more racing cars and super sports cars in real life than everyone on this forum put together, times by one hundred. And he struggles to drive the F1 car at even half racing speed. Maybe he should have been using a playstation gamepad? ... or maybe he should have practiced getting mad air with the F1 in GT5 first?

Anyway, I realise that driving the F1 in LFS looks easy compared to that YouTube video too. I guess maybe LFS isn't as realistic as people think either. However, my guess is it's a hell of a lot better than GT5. Yes I admit, at this stage that is only a guess; but it's not intended to be "driven" with a $20 plastic gamepad for starters.

P.S. I'm not angry at anyone. I enjoy discussing these things and I'd be glad to admit I was mistaken if someone can point out where I am going wrong. If some of you are taking offence or not enjoying the discussion, just leave the thread, easy. I'm not out to offend anyone by saying I doubt GT5 is a good sim or by saying that rFactor is abetter sim than most people think.
Quote from Ikaponthus :
I've asked multiple if anyone here races well with a mouse/gamepad, and asked them to post some lap times, and so far there's been no takers...

Just check out the hotlap charts on LFS world. There's absolutely loads of top times by mousers and even kb players.

I've seen (and been beaten by)plenty of very fast racers that use mouse.
Quote from Ikaponthus :I've asked multiple times if anyone here races well with a mouse/gamepad, and asked them to post some lap times, and so far there's been no takers...

He definately does.
:banana:

Ika, please consider doing some research before making such sweeping comments.
im fine with the pad. rfactor too
To be honest, the track that the F1 car does a jump on in GT5, is not meant for the F1 car anyway. It's meant to be a rally stage, not the next Silverstone. Admittedly, it should not jump like that, but that is a very minor issue considering most of the time that car will be used on the proper circuits such as Suzuka. Also remember that it's no where near the complete version of the game.
I still can't understand how you can say something is not a sim just because it is playable with a pad or mouse. You don't need your Force Dynamics motion cockpit and 2000 euro Frex wheel to drive an RC car about do you? I reckon it would be possible to drive a real car with a pad and I am sure we have the technology to do it. It has probably already been done.
The thread starter had an interesting point. The LFS forum managed to ignore it within the first page of responses.
Quote from Ikaponthus :I have the Caterham mod for rFactor and did a test today comparing a low-powered (~90kw) Caterham to the LX4 from rFactor (~105kw). First impression was that they were noticeably different. However, the impressive thing is that when I replicated the setups in both "simulations" (the setups are quite different by default), the cars handle in a much more similar way! (fyi, I made a new setup in LFS and used the rFactor settings)

I can't tell for sure - and nobody here can, whether they think so or not - which game is the more authentic and realistic. Personally, LFS feels and looks more realistic to me - however, point of the thread is that I was very interested and impressed to see how similarly the two cars acted in each game when setup in a similar way. They're not exactly the same, but they're very, very similar. I just wish there was a track common to both sims to do a more accurate comparison.

http://mcr.rscsites.org/lfsrxrf.htm
It's not exactly the same, it's a recreation of Blackwood rallycross in rFactor from scratch...
Just in case you want to compare the cars in a bit more similar tracks...

Original thread: http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=260126
LFS Forum thread: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=10168
i like Rfactor
This is an interesting topic, truly.

In my opinion, if a car game (I count all publically available simulators as games under the simulator genre) can be driven with a steering wheel (and preferrably with a clutch pedal and a H-shifter) and it doesn't try to be an arcade game (such as Trackmania, NFS) it can be compared amongst other driving sims.

Having driven all the public car sims (IR/NKP/RF/LFS/GT5P), I can say each of them have their own ups and downs. The downfall of RF is the physics department and the finesse with the FFB delivery in means of feedback of what the car is doing. In return of those, you get a great open to modding base which requires people who know what they are doing.

Niels' Corvette was the eye-opener for me in the case of RF, and after discovering the oversteer mod, I could finally start doing big slides in RF without spinning out of control every single time. Using the realfeel plugin, the force feedback didn't feel too far from the real life either. With these two mods along with a proper twisty mountain road, I was enjoying RF quite a lot for a while. It wasn't realistic enough to keep me coming back to it, but it was couple months worth of very good fun.

I bought a PS3 last year just to try out GT5P, and it didn't really dissapoint me, too much that is. What I was expecting, was just another GT4 update with prettier graphics on top of it, but how wrong I was. They had upped the ante with the FFB which was now acceptable enough, but the physics were still a bit so-so (notorious GT4 open diff syndrome still exists at low speeds). Still so, I could actually feel what the car was doing for the first time ever in a GT-game. If you want to see how it looks when driven with a proper wheel, I grabbed a video of it.

The big letdown of GT5P isn't the physics, but the multiplayer. There is NO way to host your own private races, only multi racing you get to do, is the public nightmare. Only way to join a server, is by random, you have zero control in which host you want to join. And with the usual luck, the game throws you in a server filled with players who have no idea of proper car control. One time too many did I get rammed in to a wall from 1st position by a 13-year old pad player just to drop to the last spot.

GT5P vs. rFactor.. I think they are more or less equal. Neither of them have physics or FFB nailed down perfect, but they are both acceptable enough to have fun with, as long as you have proper mods for RF.

Anyway, I guess the only advice I can give to the OP is, try out all the games yourself before anything. I was very sceptical of GT5P before having a go at it myself, and it was a positive surprise.
I even enjoyed the 350z last part of the vid.

Seems like the wheel adds a lot indeed, in comparision with controller.

FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG