First shot is ok, but though the big dark shadow has that sort of 'serene' look to it allowing you to focus further down the valley, it just looks like a poor shot.

The shot that you used to take the shadow out, it just doesn't look natural to me for some reason. A photo should be almost just as you saw it in reallife imo. The foreground in the 2nd picture is kinda saturated in a way that it looks like post-editing. Naturally things in the foreground will look saturated or hazy, but not like that.

Think about the subject when you are taking landscape shots. The canyons are tall and so are the trees. A vertical shot would suit this photo a lot more, because you could capture more sky. (Best to have more blue sky showing through (or sky in general with low cloud count). If you still want a normal portrait style photo, and want to show more of the canyon, I suggest a fisheye lense of some kind, with a polarizer or some filter to darken the shades up and give more rich feel.

I don't trust Gigabyte boards to be honest. Have had friends buy numerous boards from them, and most of them were DOA when either bought from a store or online (newegg). Personally I suggest eVGA, but that's just me.

I own g.Skill ram, 2x2gb chips, and they run great. They should come with a cool little sticker too .

A stock cooler on the C2D had me around 50C normally, which isn't that great. I got the Zalman 9700 cooler too (dark nforce one), and it keeps it down to 30C easily, if properly setup with grease and case airflow.

Quote from danowat :

as we are looking to be involved with both the BOTT and MOE in the VERY near future.

You'd really only need 3-4 drivers prepped and ready for MoE's short events in the first half of the season, so still plenty of room to recruit more before the 24-hour race.

We always welcome new teams (encourage it), there just needs to be some credibility when we look at applications . MoE wont start another season (after this current one) about a year from now, so best to consider it now

Good luck with new drivers!

Quote from Jonesy_ :

And would be nice to see more ppl taking part in this testing, since there's really nothing for the GT1 teams after all, and the server seemed to be pretty empty last night.

I agree. People who want to participate in GT1 this season don't really need to worry about their class.... it would be nice if everyone could help out with balancing the GT2 class. It is very much appreciated

lol OUCH!!!!! That dori dori is denied denied

+1

I think it would be a really good admin command to use on ayrton senna 87

I like playing with my xylophone

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aUbrQFkAai8

I like turtles too

Guys, we will likely have both solutions to this color 'problem' implemented, to accompany those who race with tags on or off. Even if you don't feel you need it, and trust other driver's instincts to be alert and safe while on the track, we still think it will help overall.

It will certainly be a requirement that we have some form of color code in the nickname for every driver. It helps the admins most of all, and also will be better to organize stats for results, etc.

Like MoE did for the last 2 seasons, teams used just a simple sunstrip banner to place onto their skins, along with some race logos I made. The sunstrip was required, though loosely moderated on the skins, but the race logo wasn't. This season we intend to have new sunstrips for the cars and some other bits to help identify the two classes, and it will be a requirement teams have the skin ready. It is a MUST that we do this for obvious reasons.... For identification, spectators (streams), and just added safety with all the drivers -- so they know what class a car is in.

I know PaulC2k brought up a point that any kind of color label placed on the skin will be hard to see if that team's main color theme matches the class color. This has been thought through already, and we will try and make something that fits all the skins so there are no visibility issues. As a last resort, we may ask the team to modify the skin slightly in the small area alloted for the color label, so you can see it better. The thin stripe designs may not be very visible from a far, so a solid color will still be used. With a two-tone border of black and white I am thinking.

Anyways, there will be a pack supplied soon of all these essentials once we get testing out of the way, and before the first race begins (give or take 2 weeks before when applications are approved so teams can prepare).

As an added hint of what else you will be able to add to your skin, I will be making a number plaque that you can place on your car. The template will have default locations on the car that you 'can' use, but you can always move the number plaque around to suit your skin's design. It isn't required to use this piece, because us admins agreed that some team's skins use their own number style somewhere on the skin. Though if your team wants to fit the theme of MoE, it is recommended you use the number plaque. All of the race logos should be finished well before the race events too. Just sit tight

That's not AutoX, more like obstacle course .

Some nice camera angles. Fix the ending URL to something that fits = www.lfs.net

This looks cool, and yes as some have stated already, the price is a bit high for something that just has LEDs and gear #.

Though about taking a G25 apart... yeah I wouldn't want to disassemble mine either in order to install it. I had a red MOMO before the G25, and I did take that apart to clean it up, but eventually the wheel felt a bit looser and notchier the more I did it. The G25 still feels nice, and I'm afraid to take it apart to be honest... because I have the risk I might move things around that don't need to be changed.

But instead you should really just have something that is USB or something, and make it completely separate to that of the wheel. Sure it is nice to have the lights on your wheel, but I'd much rather have a stationary set of signals mounted somewhere on top of the wheel's base (behind the wheel (where Logitech logo is)), and have it plugged in via USB. OR, also have something that can mount on the bottom of your monitor with a simple springy clip for flatscreens (not sure about CRTs).

A product like this should be easy to use, and a lot more people would buy it if it was just a plug-n-play sort of deal, so you avoid having to build something with tools and wiring. Granted that is fun if you like getting technical, still... it's not something most people want to do when looking for cool addons/gadgets for racing simulations.

LFS supplies a whole lot more extra data too, so making a much more detailed LCD display below the LEDs and Gear # would be really worth the price you have now. Having just the LEDs and Gear just makes me want to use what is already in the game and perfectly visible to be honest....

I guess these things are for some real serious sim-nutters that want to spend money on added enjoyment. It wont make you faster, none of these things do.

BTW: I am sure the carbon fibre is expensive and adds to the cost of the product... but honestly, such a piece of carbon fiber shouldn't increase the price THAT much. I mean R/C chassis parts made out of carbon fiber that are much bigger than that don't cost so much. Especially if the piece is a simple cut piece from a sheet and not molded or anything. I'd much rather have dark black anodized (or painted) aluminum, a lot cheaper. Carbon fibre just doesn't fit the look of the G25 imo.

Last edited by Tweaker, Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:00.

I never understood the aluminum intakes you made (saw it on that recent skin of yours)... but I guess they look alright.

Top vents look good though :up:

On a Mercury FZR skin I made once, I attempted to make yellow endurance lights inside the front mouth 'bars', and it looked kinda cool. But that area is so jagged and stretched, nothing looks good down there except some bolt patterns.

The last thing we need is more "money" servers.

Also, such InSim code people have made are devoted to the group they belong to, and I know for sure they aren't going to distribute it. It takes a lot of work making those things, and there are plenty of servers that have these features to begin with.

I'd rather have someone make me a mod with airplanes in LFS. chea! :doh:

I know a lot of people that have lost some very close friends, and sometimes even make some kind of tribute stickers/labels to put on their car somewhere. One guy I knew only too little, a lot of his friends made such a label to put on the back of their car, showing his birth-death date below his name.

Personally I thought it was nice, because it was tragic how he died, and many people all over this area supported the cause. I still see some of the cars with the sticker on it, but after a while it gets to be kind of irritating in a way that the person has to show their grief for something that happened 5 years ago now. You know, the kind of things that you WANT to forget about, but cant because other just wont let go.

Seeing that a skin could be for someone you know, you can do whatever you want in my opinion. There are many other kinds of tributes that fall short of being disrespectful, like ones for famous figures/legends (eg Peter Brock). After years and years though, things like this will be a passing memory really... so, no need to keep using such a skin for ever and ever

The new DiRT game has a good version of Pikes Peak, and somehwat accurate, but you have to get far in the game to run the entire course. Has all the good hillclimb cars too (and huge hillclimb semis).

Haven't played a better version of it anywhere else. I tried the conversion for rFactor, but yeah it is crap as ajp71 said already.

I don't think there was talk of abandoning the stage system, just a mention from fans how "LFS will never be finished" in terms of it being a finished S1, S2, or S3 version because of more and more patches. More like the kind of talk that it is always in an ongoing stage of development, and that if S2 ever does reach final, it would keep on being developed as S2 Beta A, B, C or whatever.

Still, in this regard, I do agree that the stages are purely a name to set the different versions apart from each other, and that a lot of the community believes it to be like big finished version and then the devs can finally get to developing S3. When S2 goes final, that most definitely does not mean S3 will be in the works soon after. S2 will still need to be refined, fixed, improved, etc... so if you put that into perspective, realistically S3 is still going to be just our hopes and dreams. If S3 is ever truly going to happen years from now, by that time some will have grown older of LFS becoming less and less of a 'future sim', and probably moved on by then, to something new, or wont play games at all.

The dev's envision quite a nice sim, and have made something spectacular up to this point. If it were to ever keep growing, you'd need to see some big changes for it to keep up with modern games... or else business is just going to crumble to just a small group of community followers (much like GPL fans). I wont go into what LFS 'should have' to make it a competitive driving game in this era, been repeated too many times already

We do know that the devs need to earn money one way or another, so if they are still getting purchases through S2, I wonder how long they can survive. If they slow down with progress, I very much doubt they will have a stable income, and choices are either A) Keep developing to satisfy their users, or B) Go find another job in game development. Scawen has a kid to care for, so being at home to work is really convenient I bet.

Last edited by Tweaker, Tue, 21 Aug 2007 03:55.

I don't even think bringing up "S3" is even a good idea, especially when all we are discussing here is S2 final. S3 is something non-existent, never talked about as if it were 'real', and just purely fiction at this point in time. Such hype or enthusiasm toward an imaginary day of "the holy S3 release" is just a poor reminder that fans look too far ahead and trust the dev's 3 stage plan... when S2 isn't even finished!

S1 picked itself up and went final, and had a good turnout in my opinion. S2 was going at the same rate for a while after its release, but things have slowed down, dramatically. Interviews with the devs have shown that S3 is not even under discussion or such a positive target for them right now, they want to finish S2 final as far as I can see. Even back in the day with S1 (and still to this day iirc), they wrote their own fortune on their website about buying licenses where they state "you can always donate more if you'd like to help developments, though we cannot assure you we will ever finish the entire plan up to S3". Something of that nature.

I agree with Huru that S2 should've been final when the BF1 was released, but then again, S2 had so many broken pieces in the puzzle to be fixed, it's only a matter of time before something else breaks, and we wait and wait for it to ever be finished.

Games are evolving now to much more complex systems, with better graphics, better environments to interact with, better ideas, etc... By the time S2 is finished, it will long be in the dusty closets of our harddrives, and the ONLY thing that can really truly show us that the devs have S3 in a goodie bag to hand us is if they can update to a more modern era of a game with a blueprint presented somewhere of what we should expect. Or else you will just keep saying "oh its gonna be in S3", and we will all sit and keep dreaming about something that isn't even legitimate.

There is no plan for S3. If there is, show me in words, pictures, sound, etc... what exactly their plan is for S3, what it will include in detail, and maybe even show signs of its development.

Last edited by Tweaker, Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:27.

Nice stats, thank you.

Anyone know why there is the letter "A" in front of some players nicknames? I saw this while online in the server too, kinda curious as to why this happens...

When it is Final it doesn't mean it is going to be on store shelves, retailed, etc...

S2 will just turn Final and everyone will download it as usual.

As for if I want it to be Final? Of course I do. But I don't see it becoming final at this current rate... hell I thought we would have S2 Final more than a year ago, but things have slowed down here. Things the dev have promised have not all come into the game yet (happens), and if Final is "really really close" now, I'd be really dissapointed if S2 Final is what we currently are playing. When S2 was all hyped up way before its release, we thought the physics, new cars, new tracks would be enough to call it final. But it has been... what... 2-3 years now since that happened? And now people expect more from S2 Final because of what the devs said they would be putting in the game, and still haven't. Scawen has done a good job of keeping most things updated and improved, but what was expected from Eric, I really want to see him finish that stuff so we can complete this damn S2 FINAL!!!!! Otherwise, if it is completed like --right now-- the game is going to be boring as hell for me.

Again, speed is not that much of an issue here. If we only increase power a tiny bit, what harm is done here? Do you feel offended that your values are being pinned up on the wall and stamped for change? This was a test race with a sole purpose of seeing if the values worked. Most agree it needs some tuning.

Swearing by these values and coming across as fairly unnerved that we want to increase the power A LITTLE BIT is just ridiculous. You can't sit there saying it wont work unless you test it. We tested your values, we want something changed for another test... is that so hard to comprehend?

Lets get some test values in order here, and try them.

This isn't a science fair for a 1st prize experiment. Lets get this over with.

Last edited by Tweaker, Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:36.

Not to mention that there are always methods to bypass any of this 'encryption' in software these days. Unless you want LFS to be super lame and secure for unlocking, etc.... you are better off keeping the way it is, and making it stress free for both new and veteran users (internet or not), and not have Scawen waste his time.

Protection in games will just take LFS and its userbase in the wrong direction. Look how many people refused to buy GTR just because it had Starforce. And what, have people say "I'm not gonna download LFS because it installs ScavierCop on my PC!!!!!" ?? I'll find the Exit door if that day ever comes.....

I know what you mean, the LOD changes for some people's PC's. But The distant LOD model of the car should at least have a noticeable stripe from a very safe and visible distance, easily. That was only a concept, could come up with other ideas.

We need to have some kind of color designation on the skins anyways, because drivers will also need to have the car # in their nickname as well... so it might not be enough room for the red/blue GT1 and GT2 text in the nick. The colored class names in the nickname really did help for identification though.... and I was a spectator. Dunno how/if it helped drivers. Perhaps the color-striped skins will be an aid to those that turn nicknames off.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Tweak, as a sorta OT note, the GT2 class that the CTRA is running, had loads of balancing testing done on it, balancing them between themselves, and the XFR/UFR, and they have great racing together, I dunno how you guys would feel to that sort of improvement, but the 3 cars are very close on nearly everything.

The goal was to not have cars as slow as the FWD GTRs for GT2. Cornering may be ok for restricted GTRs of that level, but speed would be way too slow at that level for such big cars.

And someone mentioning that our GT2 times were only 1-2 secs shy of the FWD WR times (race times would be even slower too), it kind of gives us yet another reason to make GT2 a tad faster here.

Last edited by Tweaker, Mon, 20 Aug 2007 05:15.

It's only a supporting argument for increasing the power on the GT2 cars. My main complaint is the GT2 cars not being fast enough out of the corners for a brief moment, they cannot carry a fast exit speed, like extreme turbo lag or something.

I thought the racing with the two classes looked great, but GT2 could be a little quicker, it's obvious. We also don't need to try and get a "level" amount of bhp like "GT300/300bhp" for example. Just need to find something that suits the two classes nicely, and not try to fit one level of bhp... it just wont be even if you do that.

>>>>>

Our intent isn't to follow a tagline for a standardized power setting for all 3 GT2 cars, we only need to make a safe environment for both classes by way of tuning the GT2 cars to our liking, as well as balancing them. Correct me if I am wrong, but you said you used these values in a league beforehand, and said it worked great. Though in our test race the cars were not very balanced, and our only suggestion is to make them a tad quicker. We aren't talking like a 100 bhp increase here.

Test race values were FZR = 29% (304 bhp/ton), XRR = 33% (290bhp/ton), FXR = 36% (270bhp/ton). I'd estimate a change of values to something like these:

FZR = 22% (340 bhp)
XRR = 28% (340 bhp)
FXR = 27% (346 bhp)

All of these result in the GT2 cars having 314bhp/ton power to weight ratio. These are purely estimates, but should be worth a try. Either car should only need to be adjusted around +/- 10 bhp MAX. The GT1 cars only have a 150 bhp difference with these values, as opposed to the 200 bhp difference before.

Last edited by Tweaker, Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:53.

My day was shot with some last minute errands I had to run during the race. Either way, LFS is acting up for me, even just for spectating online... I just get disconnected. Has been like this for a while, trying to fix it.

But for every 10 minutes of viewing I had, I noticed some really good strong points, and some bad points to the GT2 cars. Biggest strong point about this whole race, it looked like very close racing all around.

First, the GT1 class balancing seems ok still, with the Top 5 all fairly close in the first hour or so. Looked like some close/hard racing for a while with the front runners, was nice. Along with them trying to sift through the GT2 traffic, it was rather nice.

As for the GT2 class, it needs some refinement still. The XRR and FZR's top speed are relatively even, though the FZR seems to be choking a bit. It is a shame that nobody 'fast' really was using the FXR, I would like to have seen its capabilities. I do agree that the FXR needs to be somewhat of a benchmark, but not fully, because the FXR in both GT1 and GT2... their tires were FAR thicker compared to the FZR and XRR cars in the race. At least, at the end of the first stints that I saw.... GT2 topspeed and laptimes are a tad bit too slow I think. GT2 is a tiny bit less exciting with it's lower power, but seemed to provide good racing at that speed. They just didn't have enough top speed on long fast straightaways, resulting in GT1 cars to approach them at very high and dangerous speeds. I believe Hoellsen said the difference was pretty big on the front straight. Something like 40 km/h. It should be around 25-30 km/h difference for top speed, and the cars need a bit more power-on-tap it looks like, because if you look at the exit of the first slow corner (before first split), the GT2 cars would get off that very slowly, and the GT1 cars would have so much pick-up out of that corner and rocket right near the rear of them... the GT1 cars had to make really close calls in passing trying to swerve out of the way. I also noticed in such situations that the GT2 cars did a good job of holding their lines as a GT1 car approached. Yes some GT1 cars barged right in to the inside on some corners, but the GT2 cars were just a bit too slow to hold behind in GT1. But these speeds would always require the GT2 cars to hold their line in most cases, because they are so slow. The speed/power should be upped a little bit more, so everything doesn't feel so choked.

I'd propose all 3 cars to be refined under some hotlapping conditions until we can maybe have another short test race. If the cars are 10-12 secs slower than GT1, they should be maybe 8-9 secs slower after some changes. It would also be nice to see more FXR entries. We should shoot for making that car fair competition against the other two.

So far so good, and sorry for the Green Flag messages, got a new keyboard, and not used to the F-key arrangements versus my old keyboard *sigh*

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

I agree that something more should be done to differentiate the GT2s when it comes to the actual season races. Maybe a neon yellow or green rear end?

EDIT: Oh yeah there will be things to try and help differentiate the two classes. Something on the bumper will be made for sure, but nothing big and large. I am pretty sure we will make the sunstrip visors be different colors depending on the class, and an optional number plate that will have the same coloring stripe on it or something.

When we first discussed the 2 class racing with the limited GTRs, I quickly made this kind of idea for the bumpers, but indeed... before the season starts, this will all be ready to go, and look better .



(This is just the bumper idea we first had --- Coloring is other way around for GT1 and GT2 in this pic (Very Old) --- There wont be color underneath rear wing)

Last edited by Tweaker, Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:58.

That is definitely something we could consider, gonna need Hoellsen's call on that though...

Since it is only a test race, multiple entries per team shouldn't be a problem I imagine. Just the tracker (if we use it) will need to be updated at the last minute before the race with all these dropped & added teams/drivers. Shouldn't be a problem I bet.

A shame some people cannot make it though, would like to have a somewhat 'full' grid during most of the race, especially for the first hour or two.