It certainly seems to be a bit hit'n'miss on the CTRA servers. Past few nights I've mostly had some really good racing, although since I've not done much racing recently I'm still restricted to the new/bronze servers where you always have to be very cautious with other cars around. However tonight seemed to be a complete n00b-fest, as evidenced by the wrecked cars hobbling around the track getting in people's way, the small field being spread out over half a lap before the leader has even finished the first lap, and the fact that I was actually by far the fastest guy on track for several races, something which hasn't happened since S1 days in the blinged FXO with the race spoiler and huge wheel arch extensions.

Again it's very much a case of not being able to report everything, or it even being appropriate to report everything. So many times on the new/bronze servers, especially with the UF1, that you get mildly nerfed out of a position by careless, incompetent, or "foot to the floor and what the hell" styles of driving, without so much as an apology or even a "my bad". It may surprise some copper/bronze licenced racers, but just because the cars go slower does not turn it into banger racing, or a contact sport in general.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the silver servers.

Agree with sinbad. Such things make for interesting statistics, but I don't think anyone is trying to read anything into it other than that car X is Ymph faster than car Z at the end of the straight.

And those who cannot make a point without resorting to namecalling are usually either:
a) wrong
b) a child
or c) trying to make a point really not worth making.

You take your pick...

I think one of the first things that should be implemented is radiator damage from running into the back of people. The temperature gauge is already in the cars so presumably this is on the "to do" list at some point, I just hope it makes it into S2 rather than S3 as it will totally change online racing for the better - being careless under braking and hitting the guy in front would have consequences.

The other thing S2 actively needs imho is realistic engine damage from over revving.

More advanced visual (bodywork bending, dropping off, glass breaking etc) and mechanical (component failure through abuse/wear, one failure causing another, etc) damage would certainly be welcome, but personally I'd expect that kind of stuff for S3.

I've been away for a while, and since I came back to LFS I've shied away from the GTR cars I used to love and stuck to a wider variety of stuff instead. In fact it's surprised me how much the LFS community had moved on in the 8-9 months I was away in terms of provision and organisation of a variety of servers.

Most notable among these is the CTRA (former STCC) servers, but when I'm too drunk/tired/bored to race competitively I've found myself messing around on the CityDriving servers. Yeah, I know. Not what LFS is about, etc etc, yada yada yada. But so what, sometimes it's good fun to mess around with the LFS physics in a non-race environment. But I noticed the police skins were of, erm, varying quality so I decided to make some of my own for public use.

First up are some UK police skins. These are actually designed according to the Home Office's Science, Research & Statistics Dept's guidelines and recommendations for UK police cars. Accurate and prototypical, yes. Sad, yes, I know.

First is the FXO - a general patrol/community car:


For traffic/pursuit duties, the FZ50 is available in both white:


...and since the battenburg livery is designed for all colours, it works equally as well in black:


Currently in progress by myself are police skins for Jamaica and Japan, to cover the three nationalities of the environments available in LFS. All three nations police skins will be released as a pack a.s.a.p.

Quote from Jakg :

imo the 4x more bandwidth required for these skins is actally probably about whats its costing us

I think Scawen said there's a little bit of profit margin in there, but it doesn't strike me as rampant profiteering. Rampant profiteering would be the EA business model of releasing almost the same game each year with a few graphics updates, half a dozen bug fixes, a dozen new bugs, and charging you £30 for the privilege.

I'll gladly pay a few quid for the better quality skins. If it turns out my gfx card can't cope with a field full of 1024 skins, I'll just turn it off again until I upgrade my gfx card. The only reason I'm not using the feature yet is that I'm waiting for it to be in the final patch X - I haven't got enough spare time at the moment to be trying test patches.

Last edited by STROBE, Sun, 13 May 2007 12:28.

Quote from danowat :

Yup, I agree Mark, there ARE more worthy things, and I do wonder who decided that this (hi-res paid for texture downloads) was a) wanted by the majority of the community, and b) needed in the first place, as it offers nothing that we can't already do now.

I have to disagree almost entirely with your posts on this page, I'm afraid. I think the optional hi-res skin downloading is a great addition. We all know Scavier's preference for lo-res textures, but nowhere was this more painfully obvious than on cars using 512 skins.

It's true that you're not looking for rivets and little slogans on your rivals' cars when racing, but in the past I've found myself staring at the back of the car in front down a long straight and not even being able to read anything on the back of the car because it's all illegible due to the low resolution. It doesn't do anything for the immersion, and it makes LFS look old and cheap compared to the texture details in other games that are two or three years old, let alone modern day titles. 1024 car textures are extremely welcome, in my opinion.

Besides, it's optional. Those of you who don't want to use it, don't have to pay for it. When patch X is final I'll happily stick £3 from my paypal account onto LFS - and with the limited amount of time I have for LFS at the moment, 6000 skin downloads will probably last me a good few months.

Quote from Scawen :

OK, here's the explanation why we save as dds.

Thanks for the detailed explanation Scawen; interesting to know for those just browsing by as well as those debating the pros and cons of file types and sizes, etc.

Although I haven't yet tried out the W-series of test patches, I'm curious as to how the dds conversion affects the quality of the skins. I saw a couple of comparisons posted in this or other threads that suggested the dds introduces more artifacts and colour bleeding compared to the equivalent size jpeg? Is this definitely the case (or was it some incorrectly set option in LFS itself?), and does it detract at all from the extra quality of the 1024 skins now available from LFSW? If there is degradation, is that a limitation of DXT1 that can be resolved by using different DXT standards or conversions in future patches, or is it simply a limitation full stop?

Just interested, that's all. I'll definitely be enjoying the new hi-res skin download feature, it's something I've wanted to see for a long time. (Apologies if this is in the wrong thread, it seemed most appropriate to reply to the relevant post.)

Quote from duke_toaster :

even Rockstar games (the people behind the Grand Theft Auto series) can't afford the rights to Ford (the parent company of Mazda, it would go through the same goons) cars.

Something tells me that it's a matter of principle, not money.

Well as someone who competed in the first round of STCC, back when I was driving LFS, I have plenty I could say. Especially after having watched the video.

However I'll just keep it brief, and hope that the cement of the STCC, aka Becky, manages to sort out her employment and any other real life issues, and is able to return to LFS at some point with the STCC. And more importantly, is willing to return. Don't let the arsehole(s) win.

I'm clearing out some stuff and have come across my old MS Sidewinder FF wheel. Unfortunately, the pedals broke back in Feb or March this year, but the wheel itself is fine although well used.

The obvious thing to do would be to try and sell it, but as it's only the wheel that works I don't expect to be able to make much of a sale of it, so basically if anyone wants it then they can have it if they pay me the shipping costs. Shipping costs within the UK are likely to be ~£10 for standard courier at consumer rates (using Royal Mail/Parcelforce with recorded delivery would cost more).

If there's more than one person interested then I'll stick it on ebay on a short 5-day listing starting at 99p, it's only fair, although it won't attract much attention from non-sim racers so any UK LFSers that want it will still get it cheap. I'm guessing it would be of use to anyone who has third-party pedals for an MS SW and needs a backup/spare wheel, or anyone who needs spare parts.

The accelerator pedal spring is broken and I've had a couple of goes at fixing it without success so the pedal unit has been opened up and drilled and whatnot in an effort to fit a different spring. But that is all that's wrong with the pedal unit, and i'll include it with the wheel if anyone wants it. The wheel itself was working fine last time I used it, motor is a little bit notchy from having a fair bit of use but still dependable.

Hope it can be of use for someone as I don't need it.

I'm not playing LFS at the moment while I enjoy more time pursuing other interests (fitness, photography, music, etc), but a few months ago when I was playing it much more, I didn't particularly advertise the fact.

I guess it all depends on what social scene you're in. A couple of mates knew I played LFS, and gave them a go which they enjoyed. Other friends and colleagues knew I sometimes played a racing game online, but that was it. Other people, staff and girls at the gym certainly didn't know I played LFS!

I reckon in some ways it is quite geeky, yes. Especially once you introduce leagues and regular commimtments to the game. Not as geeky as flight sims or role playing stuff with wizards and goblins, but nonetheless I don't and wouldn't advertise the fact that I play(ed) LFS. It's an enjoyable (and challenging!) way of passing some time but I'm not really in the kind of social crowd that would accept real commitment to it without some raised eyebrows and mutterings. Which suits me fine these days, cos I have no commitment to it.

Hi all

I need to do some maintenance on my parents' computer as it's having USB problems. Trouble is I'm a bit rusty (haven't done much with computers for a few months now) and I can't remember the easiest/quickest way of checking which version of the nForce drivers are currently installed on their machine. It's an nForce2 mobo. Anyone got any pointers?

Thanks in advance.

Great pics - especially like the first one.

What camera/lens were you using?

Quote from Funnybear :

...or can you make yourself see that the quiet girl with no makeup and wearing glasses has just as much, if not more, to offer than the pretty pretty girls who know they are.

You forgot the third type - girls that are stunningly beautiful but don't act like it or consider themselves so.

Sadly, also the rarest type.

Quote from deggis :

"Mini Eau Rouge" for example - yeah it's similar to Laguna Seca's corkscrew but Aston is supposed to be a modern GP track.

To be fair, the "Mini Eau Rouge" (I prefer to call it simply the "dipped chicane" myself ) originally only appeared on Cadet and Historic configs of Aston. The Historic config is nearly identical to the GP config with the exception of the dipped chicane being replaced by the infield section with the double hairpins - the obvious inference being that the infield is the new, sanitised version because the old dipped chicane is too mad/dangerous. And Aston Cadet is only really suitable for slower cars, where you can't get enough speed through the chicane to make it seem obviously unrealistic.

Having said that, I agree that the chicanes in the LFS Universe at the moment aren't good enough because they can all be taken too quickly, either as a result of the damage/physics modelling, or the actual track construction.

I'd also love to see more environments in LFS, rather than new configs - however there is of course only one modeller/graphic artist who designs the tracks, and there's only so much he can do. The environments and configs we have now are good fun, and present a good variety of tracks - from the super-fast Westhill to the right angles of South City, via the tight turns of Fern Bay. My complaint lies in the theming of the environments, because they're all just a bit too... similar.

Blackwood - a circuit in England, with a palette that represents the greens and greys of England.
Westhill - a circuit in the countryside of England, with a palette that represents the...
Aston - a circuit in the countryside of England, with a palette... oh you get the idea by now. And of course South City is inspired by parts of Greater London, judging by the road signs.

Only Fern Bay and the Kyoto complex offer any real difference in atmosphere and ambience. Kyoto works especially well I think - gives the feeling of a track in a bowl somewhere amongst a mountainous region of Japan. Fern Bay, despite it's graphical age, does have that sunny Jamaican feel to it.

What LFS would benefit from is more characterful environments. That doesn't mean they have to be unrealistic, because there really are racetracks of varying speed and substance in (for example) the heat and concrete and dust of Nevada or California, or amongst the forests and low sun of Scandinavia, or in the smog and dirt of a rarely used track on the outskirts of a huge sprawl like Mexico City. And they're just the ones off the top of my head, I'm sure there's countless more realistic settings for tracks in reality.

Them's the kind of things I'd love to see in LFS.

Quote from jamesrowe :

And you cant even rub body panels with out a huge inquiery!

Curious to see what all the fuss is about, and why you're refusing to drop this issue, I just viewed all the replays (since I wasn't able to attend this race, I was originally just planning on watching the final footage to get an outsider's perspective of the proceedings).

You call that rubbing body panels? I call it being borderline wrecking.

I call it nudging cars out the way then powering past with the throttle still full on.
I call it ploughing into the back of cars and knocking them off the track.
I call it kamikaze maneouvres down the inside of corners at speeds which could never be sustained were it not for using cars on the outside as a brake.
I call it sheer aggression with little evidence of any racecraft.
I call it incompetence when you fail to complete five laps in both the heat and sprint races without totalling your car.
I call it inconsiderate when you try to keep going in all three races with one or more corners of the car completely wrecked (i.e. all red in F10 suspension display) and reduce yourself to little more than a mobile chicane.
I call it amusing when your idea of "rubbing body panels" amounts to getting rammed by your team mate because you can't judge when to recover/rejoin from a spin.

The STCC stewarding works, from what I can see.

Oh, and anttttttttt69, in my past I tended to frequent parts of the internet where posts like yours would get chewed up and shat out on your own carpet. Unfortunately the rules and etiquette at this forum prevent me from partaking in such activities, so on behalf of all the drivers and staff in the STCC, I'd like to just say one thing: bite me.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Breaking off from "Are LFS-racers better sim-racers?", I bring you the most asked question this side of our solar system's heliopause; are the members of the LFS community better lovers?

Is this our super-secret secret skill? The rumour is that credits unlock better methods.

Discuss

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but...

I can't remember the last time I came first.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

When I was watching it I was half expecting you to insert an Allenism just for shits and giggles, something about a Spanish driver slipping around like he was on the icy Spanish fjords.

Lmao! Tristan, can we (the drivers) give you some daft phrase or Allenism that you must manage to insert at some point during each commentary?

I have to be perfectly honest here about the STCC videos, I wasn't convinced they were going to work. I thought it was a bold attempt, but that the end result would end up looking like exactly what it really is - an amateur video of amateur drivers playing a computer game online.

Boy, was I wrong! The coverage looks terrific and for the most part flows really well like real race coverage with a director. The commentary, much to my surprise (sorry Tristan ), worked well as Tristan's knowledge of racing and ease behind the microphone shone through. Agree with the comments about not trying to make it sound too slick - the commentary should sound as though this is the first time the commentator has seen it, so some pauses and "errrs" and mistakes make it sound much more realistic.

(Anyone remember that charisma-devoid twat that writes for the Times and originally commentated on ITV's F1 coverage when ITV first got the rights to it? Soon enough he was bumped off the F1 coverage and shortly after I found him commentating on a pre-recorded motorsport magazine on ITV on Saturday afternoons. Can't remember what race series they were covering, but it was painfully obvious that the commentator wasn't commentating live and knew exactly what was going to happen next. This STCC commentary didn't remind me of that at all, which is a good thing).

The video package with on screen graphics is slick and professional. In terms of constructive criticism I'd say that too often the footage followed two cars battling into a corner, but then cut away to someone else resulting in the viewer (and of course the commentator) not knowing the outcome of that particular battle. The other thing I noticed was the sound quality - obviously professional broadcasters spend the GNP of a small African state on their recording equipement, which makes sense because although the content of the commentary was excellent, it was too obviously recorded on a standard pc microphone. Commentary volume levels between the two of you were also a little off in places.

But don't let those things detract from the final output. Terrific production, even moreso considering it's the first one. Congrats and thanks to all involved in making it.

PS. Can we lose the cheesy rock music for the following videos?

Quote from Jakg :

no offence, but is it me or does Geraldine never smile?

Regardless of whether offence was intended or taken or not, I'd have thought it's none of our business, tbh.

Hadn't seen any new baby photos for the past few months since this topic was created; Leo looks like he's doing just grand - a healthy, happy baby. Congrats Scawen! (I can clearly see your resemblance in him too!)

Quote from BigDave2967 :

I'll get this back on topic shall I? :P

What is the legal tread of the tyres? I might consider a tyre change altogether.

1.6mm is the minimum legal tread depth.

However even with that amount of tread left you'll notice some shocking wet weather performance. I'd never drive with my own tyres down to 1.6mm, I'd always replace them long before then.

(D'oh, should've refreshed before posting)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Braking too softly will just polish your pads and make them unsafe in an emergency. Relying on your brakes at every opportunity will just wear them out.

Best way is to use the brakes properly when you have to (don't just tickle the middle pedal), and in other circumstances use the engine braking/internal friction to slow down - this (obviously) requires a degree of anticipation.

In short - don't ALWAYS use your brakes whenever you need to reduce speed.

Nah, if you need to slow down, use the brakes. This is the advice of police drivers, Roadcraft, and various road safety establishments/charities/etc. Using the brakes has two advantages - firstly it shows your brake lights, so you don't get rear-ended. This is particularly noticeable on several dual carriageways around where my parents live - dual carriageways punctuated by several roundabouts a few miles apart. Some drivers just come clean off the throttle a fair way from the roundabout rather than use their brakes, which obviously catches the traffic behind by surprise and causes undue reactionary braking from them when they realise they're suddenly closing rather fast on the car in front.

Secondly, it's considerably cheaper to replace the brake pads and discs, than put the extra strain on the gearbox and clutch by coming down through the gears under engine braking in order to maintain enough revs to provide any meaningful retardation.

Dream job?


I think I'd like to be a plasterer.




No, really.

Funnybear, your stance on this issue is somewhat tempered by your repeated comparison of an FXO to an FZR. Yes, an FZR is faster than an FXO. I should bloody hope so. An FZR is also far faster than an FXR, which shouldn't always be the case. It should depend on the track.

But with regards to class balancing in general, there are two sides to the issue:

Side one is that LFS isn't finished yet - there are many more features to be introduced to LFS, for example unique aero characteristics, undertrays, tyre compounds, gearboxes, better differentials, etc. All of these can be used to help balance the classes, and as LFS is in a constant state of development, it wouldn't make sense to fiddle with things now when future developments have the potential to radically change everything.

Side two is that although LFS is a WIP, we're playing it and bankrolling the development of it, and thus we expect the gameplay to be maximised in the short term. This means making the extra effort to balance the cars with the current physics package, in order to maximise people's enjoyment of the game as it stands.

I can see the logic behind side one, but have to agree with side two. The class imbalance is spoiling leagues, and even rendering the in-game TBO/LRF/GTR filters useless, as more servers start to run RB4vsXRT (and no FXO), or XRRvsFXR (with no FZR).

The LRF class is so unpopular that it surely can only be considered a failure compared to the other classes. I keep wanting to drive this class to gain some experience in it but can never find any populated servers running it. The RAC, being a real car, is sort of the benchmark, but the FZ5 is a pig to drive and is outclassed by the LX6 even on the higher speed circuits, which surely isn't right. If the more difficult FZ5 can't outpace the easier LX6 on the higher speed circuits, then what's the point in driving it? Same goes for the XRT vs FXO, and XRR vs FZR.

Please Scavier, balance the classes. Pretty please. Spend more time with the beta testers to find the correct values for each car. Surely that's one of the main advantages of having fictitious cars, that you can tweak the values as you wish? We're all bankrolling the development of S2, and people are trying to run leagues but finding them severely compromised by the dominance of particular cars; public servers suffer the same effect with less long-term consequence but more frustration for those that want to drive more than the FZR or FXO.

In the absence of any imminent physics updates, the class imbalance needs fixing in the short term, imho. Just a statement from Scavier regarding their opinion on this would be a most welcome start. But this issue has always dogged LFS to some extent, so I'm not getting my hopes up. But I'd love to be proved wrong...

If you're playing the demo and have downloaded the full S2, you already have the necessary software, there's nothing extra you need to download or have shipped to you. You just unlock the extra content from inside the game once you've purchased your S2 licence. The purchase itself is pretty much instant in you pay by credit card, other methods can take a few hours up to a day or two (I think).

Quote from the_angry_angel :

It's already started going down the crapper for me here believe it or not

Guess I'm lucky - I'm on Telewest and their broadband has been as good as it's always been. I think it'll take a long time for anything to be standardised in a technical aspect across their networks, so I'm not too worried that ntl is suddenly going to ruin my internet connection. Customer service, and future investment to keep the quality of service where it is now, is a different matter however... :sour: