Quote from Boris Lozac :

Wait, what's the limit now, wasn't it 2h 15min no matter what?

Available light is a factor I think. It's quite late in the afternoon in Canada right now.

Who's there, what does it look like where you are el pibe, PhilS13? Cameras make best use of the light so it's deceiving.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Lewis makes the rash moves out of the pair of them because Jenson doesn't make any moves.

We may as well get jobs as marshals and try and sweep water up hill

Quote from evilpimp :

Would be great to have Jenson's comment on it all. If only Lee could find him right now and get him to do that.

Now that I would pay to see.

Last edited by Squelch, Sun, 12 Jun 2011 18:35.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Like i said before, i'm not blaming Button for it if he couldn't see but if he could see hamilton in his mirrors then imo he is at fault. He wasn't even on the dry line, the "normal" line is a car length to the right, i suppose vettel should have just turned into alonso and taken his normal line at the start too? You can't just ****ing pretend someone isn't there, regardless of who has the right to a line or corner, you don't just turn in because the rule book is in your favour. It's a non contact sport and Hamilton was doing his best whilst along side to avoid contact and Jenson did everything to make contact.

I just watched Martin and Davids analysis, and do agree with Martin that Jensen appeared to be looking left. The thing is, he was on the right line, and we have been told numerous times the mirrors are not exactly effective at the best of times, but factor in the rain, Jenson may just have been looking for Lewis, but didn't see him. Hard call to make.

Add to that, who makes the rash moves out of the pair of them?

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Nice cap!

Who has the best view of that situation?

Quote from BlakjeKaas :

What's back to back?

Also, does anyone know why Ambrosio was allowed to start?

I recall they said on qualification day on BBC that they thought he wasn't allowed to.
Also, on the Fia timing system had only 23 drivers classified, and Ambrosio without a number on it (>107%)

So, why's that?

They are disqualified from starting under the 107% rule unless previous form in practise shows better speed, or the stewards and drivers agree they will not impede the race.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

What are you going on about? Assuming Button knew he was there he should have chose either inside or outside line, you can't just drive your normal line when theres a car on the outside of you.

Button hardly turned in on him, but rather took the best line into the next corner. Yes Hamilton got a run on him, but with that spray, do you really think Button could have seen him let alone expect him to make that move? To take a neutral line would have compromised his speed, and I don't believe for one moment he'd play dirty on Lewis. It was an accident that was preventable by Lewis backing off once the gap started to close, just like Massa at Monaco.

I defended Hamilton for a couple of the incidents that I thought he was treated harshly for at Monaco. The Massa incident was avoidable for Lewis, but I held Massa more responsible. Today Hamilton has really not done himself any favours imo.

That is pretty wet however you look at it.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I suppose it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other when it comes to it, but I predict that this will run for 20 pages more than the Monaco thread did

Too true

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

If Jenson kept his car in a straight line the incident wouldn't have happened.

That is assuming there is not a car on the outside of the next bend trying to drive round him. The normal line is the one Button took, and to have your team mate make a risky move on the outside would be unexpected.

Woah!
There was no overlap with Button, Hamilton clipped his rear wheel, and Jenson took the normal racing line. That gap would have closed under good conditions, but in the rain how could he have seen him?

Is this hate McLaren season?

McLarens did a Red Bull!

Quote from Hyperactive :

I understand the concept. ...

That wasn't necessarily directed at you, but more to sumarise for those that haven't read up on it

Quote :

If safety was an issue the fia should either ban the concept of blowing exhaust gasses under the car or force them to use it throughout the race.

The motivations seem a little obscure. The top speeds are much higher than perhaps the FIA had hoped for. F1 teams will always push the boundaries with technological advances, but maybe they have overstepped even the expectations. They will be banning the blown diffusers completely next year with the exhaust dimension regs, but to completely ban it mid season could have a deleterious effect on those cars that have had their floor specifically designed to rely on it, and therefore make them fundamentally unsafe. we may not get the full story however.

Edit:
If my understanding of the statement so far is correct, Charlie Whiting wants to limit the boundaries of the engine mapping which would effectively eliminate the "off throttle" effect gained with retarded ignition.

Last edited by Squelch, Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:04.

Oooh wet start.

This looks like it's going to be a hum dinger. I'm not sure I can stand any more excitment after Le Mans

Quote from Scawen :

I do understand what you are saying.

What I am saying is the models do follow a natural logic, where "forward" and "front" are aligned as you'd expect if you build an object in a modeller. And "forward" heading for an arrow is the same as the "forward" heading of the "S" start position.

But - and this is the thing that is a minor irritation for you - when you are working in the autocross editor, you actually want the marker boards to face backwards compared with an arrow. But the editor does not do this automatically for you. When you work on a layout, you will often want the front of the marker boards to face the opposite direction to the front of an chalk arrow. I don't know if I can do something in the autocross editor, to flip the heading 180 degrees whenever you select or deselect a marker object using the top right object type selection buttons.

I don't know why I found that so hard to explain. I guess I'm Le Man'd out.

Logically a sign faces towards the driver or against the intended direction of travel so it can be read. Start, Ramps and chalk arrows do follow the intended direction of travel or heading, but all other objects are reversed in comparison.

It is a very minor irritation, but that is all, and I do understand that editor mode has grown so much larger than originally envisaged. It does make sense that a sign would have a heading/facing towards the modeller origin, so please don't waste time on changing them now.

Thank you for taking the time for your response however, We really don't deserve explanations for every decision you make.

My apologies, it was trivial anyway.

Quote from Scawen :

That depends where the camera is pointing! Which in turn depends which way your car was pointing when you enetered SHIFt+U mode.

Yes it is from the initialised camera angle when entering Shift+U from the car. A direction board is correctly displayed, but a direction marker is upside down.

Quote :

Look at the start point, when you press S. Chalk arrows are consistent with that. Of course they cannot be changed to point the opposite way.

I agree. If Shift+U is entered when the car is at the start line, the direction of the start "S" arrow is straight ahead. A board marker left faces the driver (opposite direction to start arrow) and is also correct. A left chalk Arrow is upside down. These are all without camera rotation from the initial direction, and object headings of 0

Quote :

They are pointing exactly the same way they have always pointed. Direction of chalk arrows has not changed.

Yes I'm sorry, they have always been this way.

Quote :

Sorry if I'm missing the point, but I have checked and double checked.

It is probably me. I seem to be labouring to explain the point. sorry.

The reason for my pointing this out is because the two objects are inconsistent at zero degree headings.

Quote from Scawen :

Well the chalk arrows have not changed, forward always meant forward (same direction as a start position).

So your point really is that you would prefer markers to be the opposite way. But they came from Aston and that's just the way they were made. They face "forward". So the "front" of them has the writing on it. That's how Eric first made them in the modeller and I really think that is the normal way that anyone would build an object. What you would call the front of a car and what you would call the front of a sign...

Only problem is you like the front of signs to oppose the front of a car. So the signs that you see on a road are all pointing backwards.

Anyway, that's just how it is so it will not be changed.

No, I meant the chalk marks are upside down. The boards are correct from the camera pov and would face the driver as expected, but chalk arrows don't follow the same convention. (see attached pic in prev post) We have always had to rotate the chalks anyway, so no matter if that's how it is.

Quote from Scawen :

Sorry but I don't know what you are talking about.

If a direction marker is placed it shows towards the camera, but a chalk mark placed immediately after is upside down.
First mentioned here

Last edited by Squelch, Sun, 12 Jun 2011 14:26.

That's two sig worthy posts now... wait three!

No mention yet of the upside down chalkmarks Scawen? Not a game breaker, but a newly introduced annoyance all the same.

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8C

Quote from deggis :

...

Forgot about those, and it just goes to show how fortunes change.

Audi R8C: Toob

Lol at uploaders comments.

Quote :

Are Audi still running the same car that they started with? It's had so many bits replaced that it could probably be described as a completely different car.

Endurance race?
24 hour sprint race more like.

What a fantastic race. I fell asleep last year, this year I didn't dare look away for fear of missing something... Wow!

Well done Audi!

Quote from jrd.racer :

Btw is this the first year Audi has closed cockpit? The cars look so batman

Yes.
And good job too considering the major crashes. The safety cell survived intact, and the drivers got out themselves through working doors.

Edit:
For good measure, Oak Racing leaves its oil all along the race line. start/finish

Quote from Flingoko :

19 mins

11 second gap.

Tense.

Quote from Hyperactive :

It is also worth remembering that if they aren't using it then the car also becomes harder to drive because you have suddenly less downforce when you come off the throttle which can make the car harder to drive. I'd imagine especially renault being sensitive to it.

But that is the whole point of the ban. The teams are suspected of opening the throttle wide in the corners and burning fuel in the exhaust. There is no extra power produced from the engine due to the ignition being severely retarded. The high velocity, and rapidly expanding hot exhaust gases at the rear of the diffuser creates the low pressure to produce the downforce. Done properly, the balance will be maintained.

Nice call on Audi's part to lose the time and put new tyres on. 6 second gap after the last stops, but pulling away again.

Race control have just announced that they must do one more lap after the chequered flag to prevent a major crash at the finish line.