Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

Hello,

No, sorry. It sold this morning. I will now put a message at the top of the thread to stop anyone else wasting there time.

Thanks!

Good job.

Ask the mods to lock this thread via report post on your fist one.

Quote from dadge :

lol. i'm running dx11. rbr is dx8 i think.

Lol, I meant 10 upwards ya nerk

RBR is DX9 it says on the box.

Any title written for 9 will run on 10 upwards, but there is a compatibility problem going down. 9c was/is the version that is most stable, and runs everything before without problems.

[edit]
Anyway it is just a stab in the dark and your problem is more likely bad drivers
[/edit]

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 18:18. Reason : Added stuff

Quote from dadge :

i think it's safe to assume the the running program is LFS. restarting explorer.exe didn't help either.

Assumptions are always dangerous when windows is involved.

I checked my eventlog and found similar entries. Double entries with the same timestamp reading


So your assumption may be correct after all. These entries are informational only, so do not indicate any particular problem.

Have you tried the Aero wizard found in control panel? It should highlight any problems, but not always.

This blog entry describes why the event is being logged, but the question is why your system is not recovering the desktop composition after LFS is closed.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/kamved ... ve/2006/04/02/566788.aspx

Do you run LFS in 16bit colour? - Options>Screen

The blog says that applications that use the front buffer via directDraw will trigger this event, and goes onto explain how to fix it in iTunes. If the directDraw method cannot be used, then GDI is chosen. This should happen at the graphics driver level, and I really do suspect you have a bad/cross install of your drivers.

Do you have a restore point prior to installing your new GPU? If so, it might be worth rolling back, and making sure you remove the old drivers completely. I think there are tools for this, check 3DGuru pages and look for driver sweeper

One last thought - LFS is a DirectX8 game. How about going a grabbing DirectX 9c and installing, Its just a stab in the dark, but it does provide a certain backwards compatibility that DirectX10 lacks. It won't replace DX10 but compliments it. Do you have any older titles that were meant for DX8? You may find the same issue happens with them.

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 17:38.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

I'd disagree with this in certain situations mainly involving very high motion speeds, such as wheels. The wheels in LFS just show a static image of the wheel each frame, whereas with a real wheel spinning that fast you wouldn't be able to make out individual spokes at all. Another example is helicopter blades. A helicopter in a game always looks pretty stupid when the blades are supposed to be spinning too fast to see, yet they render as a series of stationary blades in different positions each frame.

You're right of course. There are some situations where this might be preferential.

As Arma has been brought up before I'll continue with that analogy.

This is how BI cope with exactly this problem. Helicopter blades do not use the post processing blur effects that the player gets when turning quickly. Instead, they use one set of textures for static and slowly rotating blades, and then replace them once the rotation speed has passed a threshold. The second set of textures are a blurred version of the statics. Due to the render frames, there is still a shutter effect seen even with the blurred textures. It seems to be a good compromise.

Quote :

There is a difference between this and motion 'blur' though. Motion blur tries to recreate the effect of a fast moving object being captured by a camera with a shutter (in fact most post-processing effects, like MB and bloom, are there to try and recreate effects you get with a camera) - and you most definitely do get a blurring effect with this. As perceived by actual eyes though, it's more a 'motion transparency' than a blur, as you don't perceive separate frames.

That is a good description, and my feeling is that what some people refer to as realism, is in fact the cinematic effects that some games apply. Lens flare is an often overused one.

To qualify post processing blur a bit more. It is a whole frame effect and cannot be applied selectively to individual objects. It can also cause lag problems on lower end GPU's and systems. I don't think this effect can be applied to any cards that don't support Shader Model 2? or below.

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 16:32. Reason : Added more on motion blur post processing

Hmm, that report doesn't say what the "running application" is, so is no help whatsoever.

Instead of rebooting, you might try ending explorer.exe from processes tab and restart it via file>run in task manager. This should reload all of the necessary processes attached to the desktop.

I seem to remember Monaco being exempt from the tobacco advertising ban. Last year there was a large poster advertising Gauloises. Monaco isn't in the EU despite using the Euro as currency. I found this article.
http://www.forumula1.com/2007/ ... -tobacco-advertising-ban/

Ferrari have been called to book before too
http://www.formula1onlive.com/ ... bliminal-tobacco-ads.html
But,

Quote from Wikipedia :

However the barcode symbol that is used instead is "subliminally" suggestive of the Marlboro branding, and signifies their sponsorship. In 2011, Ferrari will no longer have the barcode symbol; the only signification of sponsorship will be the team name, Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, although the team's logo will be showing the left side of the Marlboro chevron.

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T ... g#Formula_One_auto_racing

It is definitely banned from cars, but countries that still allow cigarette advertising, can still have trackside adverts. I think they have agreed to keep them outside camera shot though.

In other news - Team Lotus have won the high court battle to retain the name. Group Lotus/Renault have indicated they will appeal, so it's not over yet.

Full story BBC F1

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 16:03. Reason : Added some references

Quote from dadge :

... it just crashes aero when i launch it.
even tried running in xp (sp2) mode. same result.

XP doesn't have nor ever had Aero, so shouldn't figure in the equation. You still haven't answered the Z28 query, or the windowed full screen questions. From the test patch standpoint, it's important to find out if this is new, and the windowed/FS should point to driver problems.

Do you get an error when Aero crashes, what does your eventlog say?

Quote from kirmy :

i dont understand how anyone can say thompson was at fault there, you can clearly see rydell moving across at the start, it was the contact with burt that turned thompson into rydell and finally leading him to spin out, watch the slo-mo, thompson maintains a straight line until hit by burt. Rydells fault for blocking the faster burt

Have a look at the view from Clellands start. Rydell makes a small turn right and then turns back but too late. Thompson doesn't turn overtly to the left, but drifts towards the only real line through Deer Leap - Old Hall. This is straight across Burt who had his nose alongside Thompson's door pillar. Rydell didn't block, he saw Burt and changed direction after seeing him. the first contact looks like Thompson on Burt, after Rydell corrected his move.

I would not say it was malicious though.

Track reference
http://www.motorsportvision.co ... /oulton-circuit-large.pdf

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 15:08. Reason : added track ref

Quote from dadge :

it's only been happening since i upgraded my gpu. on all drivers. it's nothing major and i'm sure it'll sort itself out lol. it's not like a can't play the game at all.

This has been split from the test patch thread, I was about to suggest and report it as well.

Apart from the GPU update, does it do it under Z28? I can't imagine what the test patches do that might affect Aero, but its worth making sure.

Also, does it behave the same windowed and full screen? If it's FS only, run DXDiag to see if there are any problems. A GPU update can be problematical if remnants of the old drivers are hanging around.

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I've now added links to the description of the video

Thanks, my vote registered that time.

Good game btw, I only came across it for the first time in round one. The whole thing is contentious and provocative - exactly what motor racing and BTCC should bring.

Belated vote for first round - Racing incident

Quote from dadge :

i'm on win7 home x64. my gpu is a NVGTX470. it's the only game that i'm having this issue with. i've searched the bugs section of the forum and there isn't much to go on.

Do you run LFS with different priority?
Any fancy desktop plugins/enhancements?
Has this happened since Z28? Have you tested under Z28 even?

There have been loads of Windows updates the last few weeks. I had my first BSOD ever under Win7 yesterday. It seems one of my wheels causes a crash when trying to render ffb. It might be related to recent updates in OS is the point I'm trying to make.

Quote from MadCatX :

The biggest problem about PhysX (apart from being nV stuff only) that doesn't make it really useful for crash engines is it's inflexibility. It doesn't give you an empty playground where you can build whatever you wish, it comes with a bunch of predefined algorithms to simulate smoke, cloth and to some extent deformation - pretty much the eye candy kind of things. Whoever played Mafia II probably knows.
There are much more suitable APIs to create a GPU powered crash physics engines like CUDA, DirectCompute or better yet OpenCL. Writing stuff for a GPU with these APIs is a bit of a nightmare though, 'cause you really have to "think multithreaded" to make any use of the power GPU offers.

More good points.

I suppose it could be likened to force feedback. There is a library of "canned" effects that are cue'd and played back according to the old MIDI standards from which ffb was born. Immersion cornered the market with their chipset - Saitek and Logitech at least still use these chips - despite systems being able to render force feedback directly nowadays. LFS uses the direct ffb rendering approach afaik.

Until a non proprietary standard is adopted, physics rendering will continue to go through fads, and companies manoeuvring to make their implementation the de facto standard. An organisation along the lines of mpeg is needed to define how we move forward. Projects like Newton and OpenCL are leading the way to a certain extent, but Microsoft DirectX kind of blocks any multi platform standards. The videos featured in this thread just go to show what can be done, but its worth bearing in mind that they are not real time, and took hours/days of computing time to complete. Recent CGI laden Hollywood blockbusters take months/years to produce too.

I would say Thompson should bear responsibility for that. He turns left to gain the racing line, but fails to check behind. I would imaging he glanced over to see Rydell, but failed to see Burt coming in between.

Burt is partially to blame despite what he says in the interview. I don't think braking was necessary - a lift might have sufficed - and if anyone could see the situation unfolding completely, it was him. He did get an excellent start however, and was trying to capitalise on it.

I'm not sure if my vote got through I clicked Thompson, but got no feedback. This was after working out that I needed to be viewing via Flash Player - I've been using the Google/YT HTML5 version for some time now and annotations aren't supported on that yet. Can you put a note in the description to help others please?

Quote from dadge :

is anyone having issues with windows aero? LFS seems to make it crash and only a reboot brings it back. LFS is the only game on my system that does this too.

Not here, although the task bar is visible for a few seconds after launching LFS.

Win7 x64 with Aero on ATI 4850

Quote from TehPaws3D :

... Just look at some of the nifty PhysX Stuff, Without any knowledge, I'd say that if you make every car a "Mesh" On a "Model" And make the mesh get horridly deformed, Somewhat like a ragdoll ...

PhysX looked very promising in its inception. The problem was it required dedicated hardware for the physics rendering. A brilliant idea, but expensive, and caused compatibility problems. The problem became worse after nVidia acquired Ageia and incorporated it into their graphics cards. Because it's proprietary technology, means PhysX will only natively run on nVidia GPU's - there are some modified drivers for ATI, but that opens a whole load more issues - The other problem being that of licensing the SDK for developers. It's expensive, and also means that a whole section of the potential audience will be excluded from these enhancements.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Paws kind of touches on an issue with physics like this in a multiplayer game - if a car is to have huge amounts of parts break off, and if these are to affect a following car (popping a tyre from running over debris, damage from hitting a larger peice, etc) you'd need to accurately send the exact position and velocity of every single peice over the network to all connected clients.

A good point. There are some wonderful "ragdoll" like games out there, but they tend to be single player. The netcode for a multiplayer environment would be horrendous, and while the local particle effects might look good, any network synchronisation issues would make it a nightmare.

There is a related discussion going on over at Will the graphics render engine get updated ?

Intel acquired Project Offset to showcase the Larrabee chipset (multi GPU and physics plus lots more) as a tech demo. The promise was that multiplayer physics would be seamless using this new technology. Again it would mean a developer nailing their colours to a proprietary technology mast, and potentially expensive for end users. The whole project was wrapped up due to legal battles with nVidia, and the performance gains weren't as expected.

The ideas are there, the stand alone implementations are out there. Unfortunately, the technology/processors/networking are not available yet. One day it will happen, but I believe it's some time before we get a homogeneous and open system available to us.

Last edited by Squelch, Fri, 27 May 2011 12:03. Reason : typo

Quote from FPVaaron :

There's a whole bunch of these animations, this one does not seem quite as detailed through it appears to be in real time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... zfatU&feature=related

Appears to be a physics engine here.

possibly CGI

Read uploaders text.
Simulation 20s per frame, 3-4s clip = 40mins
Rendering took much longer, 54000 frames took over 40 days.

The first video is much more complex, and even with high performance machines, must have taken a long time.

Welcome to the forums.

Well that looks good for a showreel, and I'm looking forward to what's next.

Quote from Jimmy_Lemon :

Your rb4 lap replay doesnt work but added your XFG time to the list

That's very odd. I just renamed the original, and ran the SPR from the link here and it played ok. I'm on Z34 if it matters. I do know Scawen has mentioned that some replays might not work properly, but didn't expect that.

Quote :

heres my Rb4 setup for anyone who wants it too, its nothing special

Very generous. I found yours quite drivable.

Quote from MadCatX :

Definitely not real time, the mere fact the interesting part is only 150 ns long makes it impossible. But that's some deformation engine they've got, really impressive...

I think that is 150ms but the font they use and compression aliasing makes it look like an 'n'

That is one impressive animation, and I would hazard a guess it took days on a render farm to produce. The detail is incredible, despite the poor compression artefacts. I wonder if there is a HD version around?

Very slick. Some nice transitions and colouration.

If any criticism can be made, it needs to be longer, but for a quick intro it's excellent.

I'd suggest Dori-to makes an account on the forums. They definately have talent.

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

An American female using her brain? Yes a pig just flew by your window.

... and I think to myself, what a wonderful world [/Louie Armstrong]

Quote from boothy, PMD9409 :

...

It looks like I'll be able to make it, so will sign up tonight. Shame it conflicts with other events for others though, I suppose it is inevitable.

Any benefits in running on the servers beforehand? I see you are testing at the moment, so would like to help.

I hope Williams have a better weekend, they need it, and Rubino especially.

Something else talked about during the session.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly7v4UUaML0

Don't try this at home kids!

He slowed right down before and through Rascass and the tyres were probably cold. Fronts locked, too late to take to the run off area and hit the tyre wall sideways quite hard. There might be more damage than it appears.

Alonso looks fiery.

Webber out of this session with gearbox issues.

The patch in the track is right on the apex of St Devote (T1) so might be influential. There is now a water leak weeping up through the start finish straight about 75m before the corner which is a concern too.

They just red flagged the session possibly because of the water.

Track officials had a quick look at the spot which is more like 150m from St Devote (opposite Sauber garage) , and the session has now restarted. They made a tweak to a stopcock perhaps, so maybe it'll be ok. If it is an underground leak, it will be difficult to fix, and is right on the grid, so might make things interesting.

Last edited by Squelch, Thu, 26 May 2011 08:58. Reason : Updated

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

I think something is wrong with my english

Nope, my reply is probably lost in translation, and should have had a at the end to show playful sarcasm.

Quote :

/lock

I agree.