Tnx for making my point for me, it was expected that some lower life form from XFusion will try and jump into "defence" mode and fail miserably.
Talk about going from a horse to a donkey.. My condolances ducky.
OMGOMGOGMOGMG UR SO CUTE! next time u could say like "hi scipy, i wuv u".. that's the least u could do after everything..
lawl, everyone is so "sad" and "awww" but in the back of everyone's head is prolly "omg omg we godda get bawbag into our team" 
bunch of hypocrites. sry paul, xoxo
bunch of hypocrites. sry paul, xoxo
hahahahhahahhaa. go die in a fire. xoxo.
This is all very pathetic. You all know very little about tires (at best), so why not just shut to hell up, because you are not helping to solve the problem and your whining and arguments are of no help to anyone. That's as far as insults to the comunity go.
As far as Scawen is concerned, for Christ's sakes.. get some proper beta testers. You have a god damn Norbi playing this game and if anyone bothered to actually CHECK for some FACTS you would find the following:
1. cold tire model = total garbage, once the tire is black (24°C) even 3 laps of pushing on Aston GP wont get it back to how it's supposed to look.
2. too little a number of compounds, R3 on a XFR are not supposed to be the same as R3 on a FZR, nor should they have the same temperatures etc. LFS needs at least 1 compound more between the ones that it already has.
3. tire grip doesnt get BETTER as the thread is worn out (it gets worse, how much depends on the manufacturer of a certain tire.. for example Pirelli who is an official supplier of tires for Seat Eurocup has a pretty bad tire which suffers from a lot of punctures and the lap times get progresivley worse)
4. cold pressures should be a lot lower (1.4 bar for example, instead of at least 1.8 which u need in XFR if you don't want R3s to burn)
5. thread comes back from massive overheating. WRONG. in real life, once you go past the optimum temp by more than 10-20 deg you can stop and throw the tire away. chunks start falling out, delamination etc. optimum tire temp for a Leon is 80-90 deg, if you go past 110 tires are RUINED and no amount of cooling down will help them come back.
6. tires should be able to operate at optimum temps but have different rates of wear. example: leon tire is 3/4 worn after a 60 km (14 lap race) even if kept at nice optimum temps.
7. tires should operate best at lower slip angles (talking about slicks) and reward nice and smooth driving.. for now it's possible to just get the car into oversteers and keep correcting the wheel all the way through a corner.. tires go up 1-2 deg but everything is "fine" (and this is basicaly the fastest way to drive for now).
Now the things that are correct and things that other sims have wrong/right:
rFactor..
1. tire at 50 % wear still keeps same temperatures as a new tire rolling down a straight. WRONG, thread is the heat capacitor in this case.. as it is worn there's less stuff to keep the heat. LFS has this right.
2. tire grip falls off as the tire is worn. this is correct, but the numerical values are waaaaay too big. example graph:
http://www.team-sirius.com/dow ... lemetry/LMgripfactors.png
Tires in lfs should lose grip, but not as drastically as rFactor does it. Even at 13 % wear grip falls off by 5 % in rfactor and the tire becomes almost undrivable. You should be able to do some decent lenght stints on endurance tires without them turning into complete crap. LFS tires get better as they wear out (until the extreme end when they're very cold and become slidey again). FRESH tire has the best available grip, hence hotlaps should be the fastest on a fresh set of R2's.. but if you completley ruin them you can get up to 1 sec advantage on a longer track.
3. bla bla they pick up too much temp by just rolling friction and some other unrealistic things.. but I dont have the time now.
Conclusion: there are probably PLENTY of people who race something in real life (let's count out some of the racers who drive on track days and stuff like that).. just ask people who are succesful in real motorsport AND in LFS.. someone who can feel the difference on a real track and on a LFS track - that is the person who needs to help you beta-test things. Not some kids who just played lfs for 3 years and finally got good at it but have no clue how things actually work and they just wanna adjust everything so it suits them in LFS.
/out
As far as Scawen is concerned, for Christ's sakes.. get some proper beta testers. You have a god damn Norbi playing this game and if anyone bothered to actually CHECK for some FACTS you would find the following:
1. cold tire model = total garbage, once the tire is black (24°C) even 3 laps of pushing on Aston GP wont get it back to how it's supposed to look.
2. too little a number of compounds, R3 on a XFR are not supposed to be the same as R3 on a FZR, nor should they have the same temperatures etc. LFS needs at least 1 compound more between the ones that it already has.
3. tire grip doesnt get BETTER as the thread is worn out (it gets worse, how much depends on the manufacturer of a certain tire.. for example Pirelli who is an official supplier of tires for Seat Eurocup has a pretty bad tire which suffers from a lot of punctures and the lap times get progresivley worse)
4. cold pressures should be a lot lower (1.4 bar for example, instead of at least 1.8 which u need in XFR if you don't want R3s to burn)
5. thread comes back from massive overheating. WRONG. in real life, once you go past the optimum temp by more than 10-20 deg you can stop and throw the tire away. chunks start falling out, delamination etc. optimum tire temp for a Leon is 80-90 deg, if you go past 110 tires are RUINED and no amount of cooling down will help them come back.
6. tires should be able to operate at optimum temps but have different rates of wear. example: leon tire is 3/4 worn after a 60 km (14 lap race) even if kept at nice optimum temps.
7. tires should operate best at lower slip angles (talking about slicks) and reward nice and smooth driving.. for now it's possible to just get the car into oversteers and keep correcting the wheel all the way through a corner.. tires go up 1-2 deg but everything is "fine" (and this is basicaly the fastest way to drive for now).
Now the things that are correct and things that other sims have wrong/right:
rFactor..
1. tire at 50 % wear still keeps same temperatures as a new tire rolling down a straight. WRONG, thread is the heat capacitor in this case.. as it is worn there's less stuff to keep the heat. LFS has this right.
2. tire grip falls off as the tire is worn. this is correct, but the numerical values are waaaaay too big. example graph:
http://www.team-sirius.com/dow ... lemetry/LMgripfactors.png
Tires in lfs should lose grip, but not as drastically as rFactor does it. Even at 13 % wear grip falls off by 5 % in rfactor and the tire becomes almost undrivable. You should be able to do some decent lenght stints on endurance tires without them turning into complete crap. LFS tires get better as they wear out (until the extreme end when they're very cold and become slidey again). FRESH tire has the best available grip, hence hotlaps should be the fastest on a fresh set of R2's.. but if you completley ruin them you can get up to 1 sec advantage on a longer track.
3. bla bla they pick up too much temp by just rolling friction and some other unrealistic things.. but I dont have the time now.
Conclusion: there are probably PLENTY of people who race something in real life (let's count out some of the racers who drive on track days and stuff like that).. just ask people who are succesful in real motorsport AND in LFS.. someone who can feel the difference on a real track and on a LFS track - that is the person who needs to help you beta-test things. Not some kids who just played lfs for 3 years and finally got good at it but have no clue how things actually work and they just wanna adjust everything so it suits them in LFS.
/out
Don't get me wrong.. the point of heel'n'toe is to keep the car balanced under heavy braking and downshifting it's just that you need to brake and blip the throttle all with the right foot. With left foot braking you just brake with the left one but the throtle should still be blipped on downshifts (with the right foot) depending on how your car is set up i.e. brake bias, tendency toward oversteer, diff locking on coast and diff preload.
Example: on SO4 with FZR you want a very responsive car that will turn in easily so you mostly go for the bigger wing distribution on front, less preload (around 500-600 instead of 700-800 used on most fast tracks), lower locking factor on coast (like 60ish %) and then you have a car that will turn in quite well BUT since the track is very bumpy and some important braking zones are on downhills and over curbs, your brake bias has to be set 1-2 % more towards the rear than it would usually be. The cost of which is that during hard braking and quick downshifts, the rear will want to snatch out and that's where blipping comes in.. you blip (as you would with heel'n'toe) so that the clutch meets the engine flywheel at a more similar rotational speed.
On the other hand, track like KY3: you would use a much more preloaded diff and higher locking factors to stabilise the rear (because the car will have about 34 % downforce on front, usually it's between 30-32 for most other tracks) and then you will blip the throttle less on downshifts (or not at all) to intentionally distabilise the rear in order to help the car to turn in quicker for fast turns. Distabilised rear means front has more grip and the car turns in, because of huge downforce the rear will regain grip almost immediatley after the turn in is done and you drive off into the sunset.
Setup - no difference.
Does it slow you down - quite a bit.
Anyone driving as fast with manual - no.
Several reasons including, brake pedal modulation, throttle-to-brake transition, clutch timing, misshifts, gearchange timing, inability to keep the concentration on keeping the car at the limit of grip while trying to move your hands and feet off the wheel/pedals.. Basically, if u wanna be slow and keep it "real" in some nubraces/cruise/whaeva then use the shifter and clutch (that's what it's there for), if you want to be competitive and push the limit down to the last possible hundreth of a lap time then paddles are the way to go. The biggest reason for that being that you can minimize unncessary movements and brain time that's otherwise lost on manual work.
hahaha, good one
a bit more setup woulda sold it better.http://www.seatclubcroatia.com ... pic,4960.0/topicseen.html
But, if he wanted to achieve anything good, he shoulda opted for a BMW.
But, if he wanted to achieve anything good, he shoulda opted for a BMW.
: hahhahhahha GG. I'm two-faced just because I don't agree with your ridiculous point of view and fullfil my responsibility to point it out with sarcasam? You should go into politics, maybe u can be pres0dente!BTW I make it a point to never flatout insult anyone, unlike u just did. I always list specific points and reasons which kinda always lead to a uniform conclusion that the person in question has diminished mental abilities. Tnx for falling in line with the theory.
Actually, it's not over the top, not even a bit. IMO the only restriction in any racing class should be power to weight ratio and tire width - so you can fit 5 different types of cars in a class, and anyone can choose their weapon of choice. Also if your running a "cup" or anything similar setups should not be restricted in any way, why would someone who has the knowledge to give themselves a completley legal advantage be put in the same failboat as the whiner who just came there with no prep work at all and thinks he should have the same chance at winning.
In simracing it's even worse, many of the aspects that a good driver and/or race engineer would consider in real life racing are completley absent in simracing, there is no taking care of a car, keeping track of how many miles each component has and when they have to be changed, or a gazillion other things that help smart people get the car across the finish line. So, with all those "advantages" already gone, can you seriously argue some kind of locked setups and "equality"? It is for the mentally challanged.
Tell daddy who it was, we'll take care of it.
Well, I did try. I agree that spring/arb adjustments of 0.x are quite silly, and I agree that road cars should have a bit less options available on them. But you see, Boris has a reputation/past - he's is as stuborn as a mule and has been banned (or about to be) from numerous serbian forums because he will start an argument and only keep going on and on about his point of view, and after a while, people who have tried to be sensible and show him the error of some of his ways just realise it's a waste of time and energy, but he still doesn't let it go. Ofcourse, he really has no pull over LFS devs and I doubt they will remove setup options just because someone makes an invalid argument like his was, but still - we are on the verge of something kinda new, and for the people who've gone through the trouble of learning more about sets and how to utilise them as an advantage it would be kind of silly to take it all away just so it's easier for the "rest". But hey, I really couldn't care less about XFG/LX/whaeva shitbox car, just dont touch the race cars (we could do with a bit finer steps in toe adjustments even :P).
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When I saw this topic I did expect some stupidity, but this is just too much, you are even leaping over Bawbag's tard bar with such ease that it makes him look like a headless chicken. My first instinct was to tell u to go die in a fire because ur an incompetent whiney bitch, and I did that, but I deleted the post right away because I knew one of the mods would just do it for me, so here comes the sensible response.
Your basic argument is this: "I can't do it, so take the option away for everybody so they can be just as slow as me." Why don't u just go live with the amish? I bet there's no camber adjustments on wooden wheels, so there will be nothing to confuse you.
There is even a Cyber Setup Guide translated into _YOUR_ language, and if you would've just bothered to read it ONCE, you would know 95 % of the things you need to know to set up any car (in LFS). But no, maybe you glanced at it once, tried a few clicks here and there, and the result wasn't an earth-shattering change in speed and feel - so you gave up. GG there.
As far as real life cars go, because of the fact that a very high percentage of the population consists of people like you (i.e. incompetent retards) - all the production cars are set up to respond to ANY circumstance with massive understeer, they are also as soft as a clubbed baby seal. That just won't cut it in racing. LFS has a precise enough physics model to simulate a real car better than almost any sim out there, and the setup options all do what they're supposed to.
Another thing, you suck. That's not an insult, it's just a fact, because most people suck and they will take it upon themselves to judge setups. News flash, 80 % of the time the problem isn't the setup, it's the driver. There's a sickening amount of people out there who will blame a perfectly good setup for their lack of driving technique. They don't know how to turn, how to brake, how to combine the two etc.
Yet another thing, since your last race information is from May '08 we can conclude you are nowhere near active enough to judge anything related to driving nowhere near the limit. So just save us all a lot of time and effort, stick to a RACE_S setup and bind the following text to one of your F keys: "I am better than all of you cheaters who have setups, take RACE_S and I'll beat you." Then you can continue to live happily ever after in the wonderful land where you're right and everyone else is wrong.
Your basic argument is this: "I can't do it, so take the option away for everybody so they can be just as slow as me." Why don't u just go live with the amish? I bet there's no camber adjustments on wooden wheels, so there will be nothing to confuse you.
There is even a Cyber Setup Guide translated into _YOUR_ language, and if you would've just bothered to read it ONCE, you would know 95 % of the things you need to know to set up any car (in LFS). But no, maybe you glanced at it once, tried a few clicks here and there, and the result wasn't an earth-shattering change in speed and feel - so you gave up. GG there.
As far as real life cars go, because of the fact that a very high percentage of the population consists of people like you (i.e. incompetent retards) - all the production cars are set up to respond to ANY circumstance with massive understeer, they are also as soft as a clubbed baby seal. That just won't cut it in racing. LFS has a precise enough physics model to simulate a real car better than almost any sim out there, and the setup options all do what they're supposed to.
Another thing, you suck. That's not an insult, it's just a fact, because most people suck and they will take it upon themselves to judge setups. News flash, 80 % of the time the problem isn't the setup, it's the driver. There's a sickening amount of people out there who will blame a perfectly good setup for their lack of driving technique. They don't know how to turn, how to brake, how to combine the two etc.
Yet another thing, since your last race information is from May '08 we can conclude you are nowhere near active enough to judge anything related to driving nowhere near the limit. So just save us all a lot of time and effort, stick to a RACE_S setup and bind the following text to one of your F keys: "I am better than all of you cheaters who have setups, take RACE_S and I'll beat you." Then you can continue to live happily ever after in the wonderful land where you're right and everyone else is wrong.
People, I wanna avoid trying to explain everything because it's been done before. Everyone should just get VHPA (Bob's creation) because it already contains all the damping graphs (and cornering phases) that are explained here:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/shocktune1.html
So, read that, then open VHPA and adjust dampers there.
P.S. Phases are called slightly differently in VHPA than in the article, but they are the same.
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/shocktune1.html
So, read that, then open VHPA and adjust dampers there.
P.S. Phases are called slightly differently in VHPA than in the article, but they are the same.
SERIOUSLY?! NO. Where am I gonna display my "<3 ducky" messages?!?! You people.. trying to take away everything that's precious to me. Stop et.
something wierd is going on.. LFS is just saying wrong versions on all possible hosts and patches.. when i try to connect i get a JOOS - COUNT MPSYS CONNS something and it just starts reconnecting.. any ideas?
Last edited by scipy, .
Exactly what squidhead wrote. He just gave vague comments that you expect from someone who was just given a job to report on a race and was nowhere near motorsport before that. Most of the commentary is like that, even when ITV does F1 laps, I understand that you can't go into all the details on TV - but if you're calling this "insight" and it's supposed to teach drivers some things about a particular track, it was quite worthless. I will write a walk-through of all the corners on AS5 and then you tell me if it's hugely more helpful than this was. (It'll be done in a few hours, I have some stuff to do now.)
omg, I'm really sorry.. I appreciate the effort you put in and everything, but I just find you sooooooooo fricking annoying. The accent, the SHI-canes, the wrong gears.. find someone who understands & can explain the proper technique to do the audio overlays. Otherwise, good job.
Will all of you just stop spreading miss-conceptions about engine braking? Please. It should be avoided at all cost, especially in racing. I will not start an argument again, there was a thread about this before, tristan & me gave several good explanations - obviously you could just ignore it, but at least keep your bad driving habits to yourself.
The only car in LFS that I have tire temp problems with is FXO
It's just an overpowered FWD and there's no way to be fast and keep the tires nice - there are much heavier FWD cars in real life which can be driven for more than 1-2 laps on a mid-sized circut without everything going into flames. As far as slicks are concerned, in my experience if you keep them in their optimum slip angles and the setup isnt something extremley understeery/oversteery - they are quite ok.I wouldn't neccesarily agree with this. Imo, LFS tire model works quite well around the optimum temp values. It's not like you can burn them really easily (even when driving on the limit), ofcourse if u keep drifting around they will be ruined, and the more sensitive the tire (slicks) and heavier the cars (FZR) that effect will seem a bit sudden. Imo the only part of LFS tire physics that doesnt quite work is the one from ambient temp up to pre-heated values. If you leave the tires to cool down to ambient 23 or so °C and then try to drive them hard, they wont get to operating temperature even after 2-3 laps of really REALLY agressive driving (especially air temp inside the tire, well i can understand that part since air picks up temp via convection and rubber via conduction, so the bottleneck of heat transfer will be on the air side). And maybe the other thing is once you've burned your tires.. in real life they'd blister and develop hot spots and never get back to ideal again, while in LFS you can just do the next few corners carefully and have them be great again.
In some distant future, if LFS tire physics model would be responsive to tire scrub-in periods and proper caretaking of tires that would be great, but it would require saveable sets of tires and other things.. If they could at least fix the physics from ambient temps to operating temps and have road cars leave the pits with ambient temp tires.. that'd be a lot better. Also if you ruin your tires you shouldn't get to just go easy for half a lap and everything is back to normal.. there should be a more sevear punishment
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG