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Scawen
Developer
Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :Those are interesting comments Scawen.

I've always wondered why the Home software has to run since it can be written to directly.

The Home software doesn't start automatically on my PC; and I find the headset doesn't generate any heat unless I have Home open. I tend to open it in advance anyway, so that condensation doesn't appear on the lenses - basically to preheat the unit (maybe I just have a head that gives off more than average moisture? ew..) anyway, from your comments, does LFS not run for very long without having issues? I'll admit I've been glued to another sim lately but if I can help you in any way with LFS troubleshooting I'd be happy to.

The visible home software (shop) doesn't open usually until you put the Rift on, but you should find a process "OVRServer_x64.exe" is running all the time. It is connected to facebook servers and exchanges packets with it every few minutes, even if you don't put your Rift on. Normally this is simply checking for updates but the agreement allows them to send any information about your use of the PC.

The black screens are not an LFS bug. They happen with any software including Oculus software, e.g. Dreamdeck. I like the Dreamdeck demo as it's a good quick selection to show people when they try VR the first time. Frustrating that during the 2nd or 3rd person, the screen will go black. I suppose I should just restart the OVRServer each time a new person gets on.


If you don't want OVRServer to run all the time, connected to facebook, here's how to stop it.

1) I suggest creating an "Oculus" folder for these 3 shortcuts.

2) Create a shortcut called something like "OVRServiceLauncher uninstall"
Target: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime\OVRServiceLauncher.exe" -uninstall
Start in: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime"

That doesn't really uninstall anything, but stops the Oculus services starting when your computer starts up. You may only need to use this once.

3) Create a shortcut like "OVRServiceLauncher install"
Target: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime\OVRServiceLauncher.exe" -install -start
Start in: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime"

That simply reverses the effect of the "uninstall" shortcut. You might never use this one.

4) Create a shortcut named "OVRServer"
Target: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime\OVRServer_x64.exe"
Start in: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Oculus\Support\oculus-runtime"

This is the one you use to start OVRServer any time you want to use the Rift. Interestingly, it is visibly displayed when you run it this way and you can see a live log on the console window of all the checks for updates, error messages and so on.


I've attached the shortcuts to this post, in case that may help.

How to use:

1) Run the shortcut "OVRServiceLauncher uninstall. Now your computer no longer starts the OVRServer when your computer starts

2) When you want to use the Rift, run the shortcut "OVRServer"
Scawen
Developer
I say bug ridden because of what you can see with a quick glance at the Oculus Support Forum. In my case, the Rift starts getting one-second black screen events after a few minutes, until eventually the screen goes black and does not recover. The only cure then is to restart the Oculus runtime. So that sadly makes the Rift unusable for anything but a quick demo. Also it allows me to test things I've worked on, so that's great but actual racing is not possible.

I say bloatware because you have to download over 1GB to use the Rift at all. Then if you want to run anything in VR, it always starts the Oculus home shop program in the background and that cannot be closed or the Rift doesn't work.

Other things I don't like about it are that there is no option to avoid Oculus software starting when your computer starts, and constantly accessing the internet every few minutes even if you are not using your Rift. I've found a way to disable this so I can start it when I want to but it is bad that they don't provide a simple option for that.

Another bug is that if the Oculus software is running (which is is, if you turn on your computer) then the Rift gets hot even if you are not using it. So something is wrong there. If you shut down the Oculus software (after quite a bit of research and investigation and writing an appropriate shortcut with command line options) then the Rift doesn't get hot.

So... there are good reasons for some DK2 owners to stick with the old runtime!
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
I think you get several skin upload slots for £1 - not just 1! Smile

Info here: https://www.lfs.net/account/skins
Scawen
Developer
Pleased you like the shirts. Thank you for clearing the stock and walking around with an LFS shirt on like I usually do! Smile

Victor said this was the last week of the sale, so please order now if you want any. Last chance! www.lfsshop.com

Quote from Mark13 :I ordered 10 shirts on September 12. Still havent arrived. Should i be worried now?Shrug

Hi, I guess you have heard from Victor with the tracking info now.

He sent me the link. I see the last event is "Shipment available at collection location". Maybe they tried to deliver at some point but could not?
Scawen
Developer
It's the final week for the LFS merchandise shop!

Our shirts will not be available after that.

Various styles and sizes are still available: www.lfsshop.com
Scawen
Developer
We got quite a few shirts.

Looks like the kids need to grow a bit to fit into size S! Smile
Scawen
Developer
Racing legends website: http://www.west-racing.com/racing.htm

Not much happening there, but I don't remember them saying they stopped working on it. I remember after several years of silence, someone who knows the guys said they were still working on it. But that was several years ago...

EDIT: Found a news and FAQ page as well. The links along the top don't seem to work.
http://www.west-racing.com/news2.htm
http://www.west-racing.com/faq_general_questions.htm

EDIT2: Realtime tyre deformation video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF1-8fmT4U4
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Here are some instructions from the recent patch notes.
I'm not sure where we could put this information for people to find it easily.

Force feedback steering wheel turn limitation :

In your wheel settings use a large turn amount e.g. 900 degrees
In LFS Options - Controls set "Wheel turn" slider to match that
In LFS Options - Controls set "Wheel turn compensation" to 1.00
You should now find your wheel is correctly limited in all cars
Scawen
Developer
That's a pity about the shirt! We'll have to sort that out, I guess either by sending a replacement or a refund. Maybe you can use the opportunity to check the polo is a good size for you, and contact Victor through the Yordise web form.
https://www.lfsshop.com/?page=support&contact=us
Scawen
Developer
LFS by default uses the 1.3 or later Oculus runtimes (of course).

If you use Oculus 0.8 runtime then you need that DLL.

It really does work!
Scawen
Developer
This DLL still works with Live for Speed 0.6Q and there may still be people who want to use the old Oculus Runtime (0.8) for their DK2 rather than the new bug ridden bloatware that is required for the CV1.
Scawen
Developer
Of course it's true that some of the cars need updating. Most of all in my opinion the RB4, such a nice car but with the oldest interior of all. And the FZR and FXR that still have the road car interiors. I can't do that, I hope Eric will find some time to work on them but he has some tracks on the go at the moment. Note that the UF (that also needs updating) is mine, not Eric's.
Scawen
Developer
It might depend on which Oculus runtime you are using.

To use the new runtimes from Oculus (1.3 or later) you need a later version of Live for Speed, e.g. the current one LFS 0.6Q.

If you are using the very old Oculus runtime (runtime 0.8) that is still possible in the most recent versions of Live for Speed.
See this thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89572
Scawen
Developer
Thanks, everyone.

My thoughts are to get the tyre physics done without delays, without looking for perfection, just to get something out there that feels good and has a physical basis. The current public version tyre physics system uses some made-up force curves that are somewhat like real ones, and tuned to give reasonable output values, but they are not produced from an actual physical theory. The lateral and longitudinal forces are combined in a way that also is not based on physics, and was simply constructed to give a reasonable feeling.

In the new tyre physics, the forces are produced from code that follows physical laws, instead of looking up the forces from a curve. Lateral and longitudinal forces are output naturally, rather than being 'combined' in an arbitrary way.

There are assumptions involved, but they are 'known' assumptions that are there for a reason and can be improved upon in the future.

Anyway, I hope to continue with the work pace I have been doing in recent times, and don't see why this can't be the case.
Scawen
Developer
The cars were only one example. that's why I said "for example". For another example, the graphical systems need further updating before releasing public track editors. For example, I would prefer to have a new shadow system in place before releasing community editors that require community members to render their tracks using the outdated shadow rendering system. When the shadows are updated, tracks will need to be updated using the new shadow system.

Once again, it all comes back to the tyre physics, because after the tyre physics are completed, I can get back to the graphical updates.

There is no higher priority than the tyre physics. Remember, tyre physics... Scirocco... many years ago...
Scawen
Developer
I guess you are joking but, to make it quite clear anyway, I have to go through all cars reworking them after the tyre physics change. Basically giving them more realistic settings and design considerations to suit the more realistic physics.

The point is that if community made cars are available, it would be extremely difficult to rework 10,000 cars to remove all the bodges they have included to get around the flaws in the old physics.

There are so many reasons not to release community editors for an unfinished piece of software, I hope I don't need to explain it any more!

That is apart from the fact that updating editors and providing download services, compatibility checking, approval systems and so on will be many months of work, and as I keep saying, I don't want any more delays to the tyre physics.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Nats-Dad :Much though I like the upgrades, is there any chance of some new tracks that we can race on, or release a track maker/editor for people to create they're own tracks as an lfs community projects

We have always been interested in eventually releasing track and vehicle editors and we still hope to do so. But the idea has always beem to "finish" LFS first, and that means S3 license with some more default content and with updated tyre physics. For example, there is no point letting community members loose on developing cars, when the tyre physics would be changed significantly at some point.

Quote from nacim :Thanks for the update Scawen. I was wondering, since you are refactoring the tyre physics simulation, it is possible to implement some multithreading, even in a basic form (physics in another thread)?

I am interested to do this and it would be possible after the tyre physics is released. It is particularly difficult to do at the moment while there are two entirely separate branches of Live for Speed. It's a big task and not something I'd like to do twice.

As mentioned before, completing the tyre physics will allow many more possibilities for the future of LFS.
Scawen
Developer
I'm not making any test patch plans at the moment.

Right now I am working on the carcass simulation. Then I'll be working on the tread simulation. That's all I know for now.
Scawen
Developer
Banned cargame.nl for a month.
His previous post goes too far.
Better to have a break from here.

Meanwhile, I'm working on the tyre physics. The VR support really needed the 3D mirrors and that's why I did it. It really is the icing on the cake for VR support. Actually as I stated before there is something pretty bad about 2D mirrors in VR!
Scawen
Developer
Quote from cargame.nl :Did I tried VR yet? No. Do I have to? I know it seals you off -completely- from the real world. Blocking eye sight communication and audio, no need to try this, it's obvious. And it's something I don't want, why would you want to isolate yourself from your surroundings? This leads to broken relationships, general anti social behavior, loss of knowledge if it's dark or sunny outside etcetcetc... I repeat it one more time; it's idiotic.

Wrong. It does isolate your vision, yes, as that is the whole point, you have to be inside the virtual world. It doesn't have to isolate your hearing, you just use speakers or headphones, whatever you usually do in a sim.

It doesn't lead to broken relationships, you are getting a bit silly now. Obviously going for a half hour / one hour drive on your sim rig, doesn't harm your relationship in a different way if you have a headset on or a large monitor. It's just more fun in the headset because it's like you are really in the car. great fun and something that will no way fade away. It doesn't suffer from all the drawbacks of 3D TV, it's really not related to that.

VR is great for simulators, of course, because you are seated. For example when you used ETS to practice reversing. That experience could be seriously realistic if you had a headset on, because you could turn your head and look around just as in real life.

Obviously, you aren't ready for VR. It's not ready or good enough for most people. But it's not sensible to keep telling people it's stupid, specially if you haven't even tried it. It's actually quite amazing and has a definite place in the world, including in sim racing.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Dave, have you tried a VR headset yet? It's pretty good! Big grin

Yes, expensive at the moment, the Rift FOV is too narrow at around 90 degrees and the Oculus software is really awful, intrusive and full of bugs. The Vive has a whirring lighthouse system for positional tracking (though they are fairly quiet).

I can think of a more ideal headset with Rift style camera-based positional tracking, non-facebook software, Vive field of view (but preferably wider and with screens mounted horizontally), slightly higher resolution and lighter.

Some of this is coming. For many people it's best to wait for some of the necessary improvements. But it really is something to feel like you are in the car driving around, looking left and right at seemingly real sized cars next to you!

No-one in my family thinks I look stupid, they just want to have a go! There's a strange thing where you can be in the two realities at the same time. Driving around in the virtual world, but also able to talk to the person who just entered the room behind you.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from englishlord :A suggestion, maybe have that shop site linked or even better merged, in the shop section of the main site.

It's about to close down, which is why there is a super sale on.

Yordise is a separate business, run by Victor, to avoid complicating Live for Speed's accounts and tax returns. Live for Speed only supplies electronic services. So that's one reason why Yordise has its own site.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Jenner :Please let me order from the USA.

It would have been good to include USA but Victor said there are extra forms to fill in. Unfortunately shipping costs are not the only barrier.
Scawen
Developer
If shipping costs were lower, and there were not paperwork and tax issues to overcome, then the merchandise shop would have been more successful. It's a pity because the shirts are high quality and comfortable to wear. The new prices per item are far lower than the original production cost. But obviously we cannot ship below cost. Smile
Scawen
Developer
I haven't heard of that until now and don't know why that happens.

But to save you resetting the USB connection, can you try "reinitialising controllers" in LFS? That is SHIFT+C in game or the refresh button in the controller options screen (or /refresh text command in that screen which may be assigned to your F5 key).
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