Quote from Nilex :

Yow Seth, I must say you're 1 persistent mtf. You stick for getting it your way and won't budge till you do - I can certainly respect that. It's a double edge sword though. Good if you have support for your cause, bad if you don't as you already know.
It is a touchy subject you raised. Basically you're not only attacking a game that proclaims itself as a simulator but also, indirectly, all the people who play it. Insult their intelligence so to speak. This is the reason for some of the personal attacks on you, others being a response to your attacking attitude. That doesn't justify them, especially since you raised a valid point. And it's next to impossible to talk constructive in these conditions.

I trust my instinct that you're reasonable guy that got distracted by meaningless posts. That's why I'll explain two issues that bother you:

Firstly - LFS will NEVER be realistic with Force mode. Yes, true. You could have said 'LFS will NEVER be realistic' and still be correct. Simply because realism only exist in reality.
So, what you were probably thinking about is appearance of reality or simulation of reality aka simulator. LFS will NEVER be a simulator with Force mode. True?
If so, and this is important, forces view can be disabled making the game how you want it.
Which brings me to your second issue:

Force mode is an advantage - it's not. I know you've gotten a lot of 'it's not an advantage' etc., but not a single 'why'. Clearly the 'why' part is what you're after. Chupacabras84 and Si Mclaren slightly touched the 'why' btw, but nowhere near.
What if I prove to you that its not an advantage. In what you say it's advantageous: tire position, usage of track, more sight. Would you still ask for its partial removal even when it can simply be turned off?

I ask you beforehand because it's time consuming for me to present proof. And if your answer to second question is yes, it would be meaningless.

i'll reply your points one by one. thanks for the comment btw. thanks for reading and understanding almost all my points.

-seems like i have support. i got 2 votes of 5 stars for my thread, obviously one five stars from me, 3 five stars in total. (oh they'll vote 1* now too bad)

also about supporting, if you like something, you dont voice it, if you hate something, you voice it. its like calling an internet company for your problems, but not calling them to congratulate them for their good work, if you dont have any problems. i am sure there are people that keep their silence but supporting me.


-i never said LFS is real, nor would it be real. being realistic and being real is 2 different things. therefore LFS will never be realistic (or will be less realistic) with force mode.


-what if you prove me. hm, you will not be able to prove it. so, as long as its available in hotlap mode, there will always be doubts. because nobody knows for sure who gets advantage of it and who does not.

also, i'll never believe to a guy who says it does not provide advantage. its like catching a guy in F1 asking him whether if he uses jet fuel to go faster or not, he'll say he doesn't, for sure. (this is only an example)


-if you can prove me, you'll need to record all of those hotlaps done without F mode on. that'd be impossible for sure. so i am afraid you'll never be able to prove this to me.

Quote from col :

If you turn it off, turn it on, or put cream on it and stick it in your piehole, NOBODY will take any notice.
The ONLY thing you must do to be competitive is practice a lot (and have some talent)
The only slight advantage that force view might give is for noobs who might learn more quickly where they are losing time. - this is a good thing! Expert drivers already know a near optimum line and have an instinctive awareness of where their tyres are and more importantly where they are going to be. They will gain no advantage whatsoever from forces view.
If you are in a race online, the only people who might be getting an advantage through forces view are noobs, and they're not the ones who are winning and beating you by seconds per lap.

What you need to do is grow some balls! Man-up and admit to yourself that you are losing fair and square because you are slow, not because others are 'cheating'. Only when you accept this can you begin on the path of self improvement that all those fast guys and gals that are beating you have followed.
If you truly believe that they are faster because they are cheating, then you are in denial, and will never be able to achieve your true potential. That would be sad... for you... but not for anyone else

how come i'd be slow if i am only 2 seconds away from wr only around my 250th laps?


damn omg this guy has no brain probably. i said it 100 times under this thread, that there obviously are faster people than me. some of them faster by fair racing, some of them uses force mode probably.

and force mode being usable in hotlaps (a place where there must be no doubt) is just bullshit

Quote from rageshgr :

I agree that F view may be unrealistic and may provide some extra info. But Morgan's post indicates that even in real life they use such devices.

First of all, you say you are faster with F view. Is it because you can see the naked tyres and the road clearly? In that case even the custom view provides similar thing. So you should oppose that too. Or is it that you are actually usin the red bars to gauge grip etc which is helping you fine tune your steering angle, braking etc?

In anycase, this is a sim, so there are many features in this which are not available in real life. But since a sim does not have the many luxuries of real life, like a crew of automobile engineers to help you out, accurate feeling of forces on your body (ignore FFB, FFB is also simulation or approximation), the smell, the sounds etc. Since a sim has many limitations compared to a real life racing, there are many extra features added to help you out, to balance the limitations of a sim, vs real life racing. And as someone said, when we use non-FFB wheels, joysticks, keyboars, mouse to drive, these kind of extra features do help.

But for the record, personally I get distracted by the F view. My most comfortable view is the custom view with "none" visible, not even tires, just the road. And just like the F view, this is unrealistic too. But this is what works for me, and this is a sim which caters to different kinds of people with different kinds of controllers etc.

And my main problem is, when you talk about unrealistic features in a sim, the F view may not be the biggest problem.

And I also sense a feeling of frustration that you have that after a month of driving you are not the fastest etc. But trust me, I don't know anyone who drives around in F view. We have people like Chesnos, who uses cockpit view, manual clutch, manual gears on a keyboard, and beating World Records! So don't worry that people are fast by exploiting some undue advantage. Those who are fast, have really earned it, with knowledge, talent, hardwork, practice and (1000 other factors which make u fast).

And, well ur FBM time is only 2 sec off WR in just 254 laps. With practice I am sure you will be up there.

sorry your post seems lost among spams. thanks for the post.

hehe for most of them i am slow but here is what i want;

i just want HOTLAPS to be beyond any doubt.

hmm, i requested F mode to be removed from hotlaps and online, some took my words as if i meant remove it totally, some only swor me, some called me without experience and some forgot i was telling it should be available in test environment. but it should NOT. be usable in hotlaps.

take a look to those nonsense answers to me, if i anymore get such answers, i'll try not to answer.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

Kid how about you stop making up stories?

Quote from Sobis :

Good, for you. Every time I see idiot's like this, I get really (really) mad.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

S.E.T.H

... You are completely wrong! Completely!


You really think people in here are so talentless that they MUST use the freaking F mode to get the best lap as possible???

You really think it?

You have no idea about LFS, demo racer...


Hah! HAhahahahha ahhaha!....Go, go back to play Big Rigs! there is no force mode, it is the force whole game, specially when R-gearing...


Really, next! ---->

Quote from stan.distortion :

OMG, this is still going!? I'm the tinfoil hat kind that would suspect this guy of being a troll, regardless of whether he is or not he's owned every troll here for prolonging a stupid argument.

Quote from DarknessPainF1 :

You must be an idiot if you actually think someone is faster with the force mode on.

Quote from VicaNo :

u have big problem with head

Quote from Jettascuba :

Why don't you put your head back up where it belong?

You must be the most stubborn dumbass that ever visited these forums.

Admins: PLEASE close this thread

Quote from der butz :

Because your Mama!

YOU tell us everyone else is cheating, without a proof.
YOU tell us YOU want this mode removed.
I tell you I want it in, for all the reasons everyone but you stated in this thread.

I've told you three or four times now, Herr Geheimrat.

>little note: i never said it should totally be removed.

Quote from VTiRacing :

Well, you are retard S.E.T.H. Just my 2 cents.

Quote from cargame.nl :

It's simple.. Proof that you are faster in that mode and you have a point.

Otherwise take a hike okay? Bay.

(obvious troll, lame topic too... Doesn't come anywhere near Lerts write ups).

not a lame topic, a topic that reveals how those so called hotlaps are done.

by the way your request is stupid itself, i can just go slower with f mode off, and faster with f mode on. but after all, it makes me faster. yes.

Quote from col :

S.E.T.H, if you have a problem with f mode, why don't you just f off ?

if i turn it off, others will turn it on, then i'll be forced to use it if i want to be competitive.

Quote from Flame CZE :

So according to S.E.T.H. argument, iRacing is not a true simulator either, because it has throttle /brake help and a racing line (so does LFS).

you can turn those helps on and off right? then there is no problem. after all you can see who is using helps. unlike in LFS, in which you cant see who is using it.

Quote from col :

hehe, that got me thinking... what does S.E.T.H. stand for ?
Then I though of a few possibilities....

Seth Event Totally Hilarious
Smallest Ever Toilet Hose
Slowest Ever Timed Hotlap
Seth, Eat That Hominem
Scammer Easily Trolls Hotheads
Sanctimonious Egotistical Tubthumping Hypocrit
Silliest Ever Thread Hehe

thats just a bullshit and i didn't find it amusing at all. but you could do better

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Because hotlap mode uses tyre warmers and some sets are made just for one lap with the tyres at a certain temperature, the reason it should still be online is because it's convenient to able to just press F and see how the car is behaving with a setup you just received etc. The last and final reason is there is no REASON to move it because it doesn't give you an advantage so it's pointless to remove it from online and hotlap mode, there is no reason to remove it. I wouldn't really care if it was removed because i don't use it for the view or for making setups but why should it be removed from some modes because 1 person despite people that have played for years have told him it's give no advantage says so?

I'll tell you what, why don't we get you and one of the top drivers that use cockpit view on track, you with F mode and see who uses more of the track? When your on the track you don't look where your wheels are, you just KNOW where they are after a while.

Just use what your most comfortable with, if your more comfortable with F mode use it, if cockpit mode then use that, i've tried a few custom views but always went back to cockpit because it was better for me.

like i said there are faster ones. and i said leave HOTLAP mode without doubts.

create an area where users can make setups, and you then try your hotlaps in hotlap mode. beyond DOUBTS.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:00.

my reply to those who is saying

Quote :

if we are going to remove, we should remove all of the custom views

no, when you use Force mode, all of the cars in track turns into shitty images, turns into only tires. (which gives you advantage, too) but when you use custom modes, all other cars are real, you dont see weird tires and sticks, you see the cars, and THAT, feels real.

Quote from Bean0 :

A very good point.
Using the force view could be considered as using a driving aid or training tool.
Much like displaying the racing line, or using automatic clutch/gears.

Using it to improve FPS is more to do with the bodies of opponent cars not being drawn I would have thought.

like i said, all of them ignored your post and they are still talking like ''how can it give you advantage, i dont get it '' and bla bla lol.

none of them really tells me why should it not be removed in HOTLAP & ONLINE mode and should be available in somewhere like TEST-SETUP ENVIRONMENT like they say its not a view but just a helper to build sets?

because i am sure most of those fake hotlaps are made with force mode on. i am sorry you guys

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

F-MODE IS BEST!

got it?

you are nothing without F mode, probably.

Quote from Gougoodthing :

Just read through the thread.....

How could using force mode make you faster???

If anything, It would make me slower!!

lmao, like i said, better freaking sight

Quote from logitekg25 :

time to break the truth, everybody but you S.E.T.H. is using the force to hover above the track keeping the tires un-worn, and cool, and therefore being far faster than you and beating you...come december of this year, the DEV's will come across this thread, and realize you are correct, and remove this feature, that is when the world ends.

hope i cleared it up.

no you didn't clear it up, i am faster with F mode yes, but i'd never play this game with this mode, if i am forced to use it to be faster, then i BEST leave it. and save myself for more realistic games, those which has realistic features, unlike force

Quote from Sobis :

I'm looking for Dave.
Don't worry, picture of her is bigger than the window of LFS

i suppose this little horny guy has never had a gf in his whole lifetime falling in love by just looking at a picture where just a normal girl stands. lmao

Quote from der butz :

The sole purpose of this guy's posts is to spread laughter and joy upon all fellow racers, even at the expense of him making a total f**ktard of himself.

Come on, haven't you noticed that this guy isn't serious but a mere troll enjoying his abilities to make people angry then laugh? And as I said in one of my last posts this guy is brilliant at it! You could learn so much of his changing levels from on-topic to off-topic to personal and back whenever he wants to!

i wish you didn't feel that way

Quote from Sobis :

i am retarded.

i know leave productive comments or leave yourself


@chupacabras84

well i see you are jealous too, what was in his comment? he told me things i didnt think about. with a calm, logical head with absolutely no offense. unlike yours which is damaged and seek only to attack personally when it finds nothing to defend itself.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:14.

Quote from Bean0 :

A very good point.
Using the force view could be considered as using a driving aid or training tool.
Much like displaying the racing line, or using automatic clutch/gears.

Using it to improve FPS is more to do with the bodies of opponent cars not being drawn I would have thought.

but most of them will ignore this post of yours

Quote from Bean0 :

Will you stop bloody editing your posts while I'm replying to you.

Simraceway is rFactor isn't it, just badged differently ?
I don't think you can consider any of the modern Codemasters racers simulators when compared to the likes of LFS, NKP, iR, rFactor...

subject of different thread to struggle telling you what f1-2011 is, at least we are on same side about other games.

Quote from Juzaa :

S.E.T.H, based on this discussion I have come to these two conclusions:
1. You are an idiot
2. You can't drive shit.

You are saying that f-view should be banned because it allows you to see better and thus makes you faster. Seeing a bit more does not help your times if you know how to drive. However, if you don't know where your tires are (meaning you have never before played any racing games and have no idea about racing) it might help you to get better lines. Once you know where your tires are, the f-view doesn't help anymore. This should occur after playing the game a few hours.

You mention that you were 0.2s faster with f-view. Please provide further details about this. 0.2s can come from anything. With noobs it's common to have a lap variation somewhere close to a second. How did you exactly calculate this difference?

Also I know we all would love to see your best laps with- and without the f-view to see exactly how this magical tool gives you an advantage? Have you considered that 0.2 seconds means nothing if you are ten seconds away from the world record?

ten seconds away from wr? no, its just 2-3 seconds. and im only at 250 laps. you have an opinion without knowledge

@bean f1-2011 is simulator, rfactor is simulator. simraceway is simulator, none has such ''force-mode''

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

...blablabla

Oh I get it all of the sims you played before and where good at also were a lie, ?

blablabla...

ok how can i put this into your unfunctional brain? what you want from me? should i record a video from my f1-2011 or should i upload my karting races? or should i add a video of r-factor? you think i lie because to buy and play many sims is something impossible? pffffffff boring kid.

Quote from MadCatX :

How can it be an unfair advantage when everybody is free to use it?

Let's say I have a G27 racing wheel and I set my steering lock to 60 degrees, so I can countersteer ultraquickly and use nonlinear steering to compensate for the oversensitivity. It also kills realism and gives me a really unfair advantage (not everyone as a wheel with adjustable steering lock), should such racers be banned or something too?

no, when you lock it to 60 degrees, you'll lose smooth steering. i am trying to solve the most possible unfair thing in game. what you just said rests in your hands, you can use hack or wheel or any other. i cant prevent you from using hacks. but force mode is at the developers' hands. so i can request to be removed. and those hacks are rather hard considering f mode is activated with 1 button.

for sure i'd like those hacks u mentioned to be fixed though

Quote from der butz :

Ah, an insult, how original. I'm starting to like you even more. Where do you come from? And why don't you leave?

yea, i am learning from u and if i leave or not, is not your business

Quote from Si Mclaren :

I lost the discussion, but S.E.T.H., i would like to argue with you...

Until a month, I was a demo racer, and with a bad PC. Because of that, had to always use Force View and gained a "advantage" comparised by using normal view. But...

When i entered S2 (after 40000 online KMs), noticed what the tracks give me more FPS than BL, so i could use normal view... And i didnt lost that advantage from Force View, even without use it... How?

The advantage, is bigger for newbie drivers (don't get offended please), because they cant "feel" (or imagine, in case of you drive by mouse/kb) where the track ends... So if a newbie who uses F view stop using it, will go off track, spin, like happened to me. But when you are experienced, the views will simple not care... You know how much accelerate to use the outside kerb, know how to brake and use all the entry kerb, know how early to corner-in to use the apex kerb... Viewing the track just gets you distracted...



So, the F view gives advantage only for newbies... But, the experience/hability counts the same, so it is not a "so good cheat". For WRs, etc, there are only super-experienced drivers on the Top 10, so view the track or not won't care nothing, just distract...

When i was newbie, i used force View to know where to brake in the 2nd last corner at BL1... Then, i noticed the boards, near the trees... 100, 50, 25, 10 meters... And noticed what my braking point was near the 50 mts mark... So, force view just lost its importance and i started to look up to see the marks instead of looking to the kerb...


I, as someone who started really bad, with no one to help me, to a S2 driver, signed to a good team, with "not bad" PBs, i can tell you: Don't care if others are cheating. Don't care if anything help others. Find what help you, find how you can be faster/better, then you will be fast and competitive.

thank you so much for that sensible, understanding post. i'll try and see if when i am faster, will i still want to use it or not. thanks for the greatest comment ever in this topic :Handshake

@madkat

i am telling it once for last time. it kills realism and brings unfair advantage. simple as that.

and also it has no use other than setup making. so let it be unavailable on hotlaps & online racing

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Wed, 15 Feb 2012 13:24.

Quote from der butz :

1st: So you drive with a simple wheel. Not realistic. No h-shifter, no clutch pedal I suppose. That's an unfair advantage over all the honest guys racing with proper clutches. Period.

2nd: I want the f-view in the game, you don't. 1:1, the devs leave that in because I want it. If you don't like the game please go away now.

3rd: It would be most realistic to drive a race in a car.

Anything left to argue? Think not

no greetz

der butz

lol funny guy

simulators are never real. your brain must be capable of understanding it. but we are trying to feel as real as we can. if i have a simple wheel, its my problem, i can buy better one. force mode is about the developers.


yeah i suppose you are having nice fun all you see is far from reality and fun. when you get in a real car (if you ever will) those sticks you seem to drive upon will join your arse

Quote from der butz :

I've quit reading on page 6. You seem to be quite an experienced troll to me, not seeing valid points opposing yours and keeping going on about how everyone but you is a stupid/bad/mad/... person.

I say it again, show us your lfs simulator(edit: and show how you're faster with force view). Then leave. Quick.

i dont know what is your point in asking me of my things. i have a laptop, sometimes i connect it to the tv and play, and i got a simple wheel. and how you want me to show you that i am faster with force view? im just faster with it. but i still dont want to use it, i am not having fun.

Quote from Jettascuba :

Drive 100 000 km's and then tell me that Force Mode make you faster.

You have driven 1000 km, it is to be expected that about every lap you drive, you will do better.. During the learning curve, improvement is rapid, let us say logarithmic, as you get experienced, your improvement hits the curve's plato.

NOW when you hit this plato, get onto force mode and show me another rapid improvement.

Your current 0.2 - 0.3s improvement count for NOTHING at your current level of experience!

Put me on a new combo and every little thing I change (FOV, setup, FFB etc) help me to improve. The one thing that never helped me was force mode. I loose perspective of the car's extremities, the gray arrow that suddenly pops up right in front of me when I brake is seriously distracting and limiting my FOV. With force mode you will hit the car in front of you or the wall next to you (oval example) while you think you still have clear space in front of or beside you.

I used force mode once, and that was to UNDERSTAND and get a feeling for the RAC's front tyres on AS Club reverse (an engineer may use this as an aid to explain to a driver in real world why his car is doing what it is doing), I also watched countless replays, drove numerous laps in various modes. Standard cockpit view gives me the feeling of real racing, not this nauseous feeling of seeing a road under my feet.

Force mode is a nice theoretical modelling aid, but as a driving aid - NO WAY!!!

I have seen you argue with some of the top drivers in LFS, I have driven on the same tracks with them - you are telling them that they are liars, using unfair aids to gain advantage over other drivers. I have only seen pure unadulterated driving skills from them that stood me in awe... on Sunday I have seen Redline Stuart drove FE Gold with 40kg ballast in the UFR against some very fast drivers with no ballast, making his set the slowest in the field. Guess what, he won!

Fast is fast and bullshit walks.

Get some experience and then argue your idiocy again.

your whole comment meant no sense to me, really. you totally missed the point.

Quote from MadCatX :

I hate to say this, but do you realize what kind if idiot you are? You're acting like the force view was the only trick you could use to be faster. There are much more effective tricks and people regularly use them. You're also saying that if you can't be the greatest and the fastest, you can't enjoy the game... with this kind of attitude I guess you could apply to McLaren F1 as Hamilton's replacement.
Seriously, either get over yourself or leave.

pfff kids around who calls the other ''stupid'' or ''idiot'' when run out of arguments. im sorry where did i say i cant have fun if i am not the fastest? ive never said such thing. and by the way i'd like to be replaced with button and beat hamilton

Quote from MoMo92i :

C'mon I have never used F mode for setting the car. This is shit, something better are the datas you can extract with .raf files an analyze wit lfs lra.exe (lfs replay analyzers).

You are definitely noobs and deseperate. If 100 wr holder tell you he isn't using it maybe it is because this is nor usable. Think

again an insult, again an ad hominem attack.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

how is not using FFB mode more realistic than using it?

its so simple is it not? seeing 4 tires and 4 sticks upon them is unrealistic. and seeing the cars themselves is realistic. at least, more realistic.


nobody tells me why should not the developers remove it. if its only for setup building like all of you said, make it available on setup environment. and let people do hotlaps without force mode.



in demo there is almost no servers with force cockpit mode option, or there are some which is abandoned, left, totally empty.

and servers with full population have force mode available. which reveals the problem itself. if any of you running a server, force them to use cockpit view once, then see how the population of the server drops gradually, and the time boards also. you'll end up with nobody racing in your server.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:54.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

Nope just revealing you.

Well you see as for now numerous times I proved that you are a liar, and make things up to prove your point and i think that was quite productive as far as post can go anyway
because if all of your points are lies then your argument is unfounded and thats pretty much where discussion ends for you

im so happy you ended your discussion with me cause your words were only attacking personally because of the pain in somewhere in your body read all your posts again and you'll realize that. of course, for me too. im happy to see the end of the discussion with such person like u

@madcat, yeah 2 seconds. and i am yet on my 250-300 completed laps.

i'll not use unrealistic F mode and like i said i rather leave than to be forced to play with this mode.

Quote from Mauni :

That's not a huge difference then. Besides, you can feel being on kerb via force feedback too. You don't have to see the tyres to know where they are.

IMO if want force view removed, you should also remove all other but cockpit view, which is already possible as a server option.

not every people have systems like you most of them use mouse or keyboard, or a wheel without force feedback.

no, i told before, custom views are realistic to certain extent. but force mode is totally out of limits.

cupacabra, relax dont forget i am making a request and ur just revealing yourself. oh and i showed i am a liar? im so shy. please read or send productive comments rather than attacking me personally.

or go play with force mode on.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:30.

Quote from Mauni :

Have you tried it yourself Seth? How much faster is the force view is for you? I doubt that there are many people using it for racing.

i was 0.2-0.3 sec faster each lap, and much better in races myself.

Quote from Chupacabras84 :

The best part of it is that the guy drove only FBM online which means all of his complaints about how people can see more and are faster because of it refers to FBM, I mean really is there anything that obscure the view beside rear spoiler

Beside You were said numerous times that fast times in LFS lie everywhere else but transparent car and you dont have a single person who says otherwise so what makes you to believe that transparent car is the key to success?

obviously, a guy that is doing fast laptimes would not say ''i am doing it with force mode on, thats how we dooo'' right? so all those ''i am not using'' is just bla bla to me.

he'd say exactly like you,

'' i am not using it, its not important, nobody cares about it but;

DON'T REMOVE IT!! ''

Quote from Bean0 :

So let me get this straight...

You accept that there are servers where you can race that will have this mode disallowed by the admins.
Your gripe now is that it is available in hotlap mode. If it wasn't, you would buy an S2 license.

It seems like a pretty crappy reason for not spending £24, as you are missing out on so many good features of an S2 license.

i know i will be forced to use force mode when i am slower, or when if i do a fast lap, i will need to improve it force mode on. because people always want more. there is nothing prevents you from using it and doing fast lap time if you are already using things like insim or outgauge or something. then it will become a necessity to me, then i'll swear to the new guy who says it must be removed and it kills reality.

Quote from Ped7g :

S.E.T.H: hello, nice to see new face in LFS, and with karting experience!

About your doubts... well, if so many experienced LFS players do think the F view does *not* give you advantage, perhaps you should verify your experience.
Or do some new wrs in F view, so we all can feel consequences of this dirty advantage.

(I personally do believe you will be slower with F view, if you are faster now, you probably don't know the track well enough and don't have the feel for the car yet, keep driving, I'm pretty sure this "advantage" will evaporate within couple of weeks)

Edit: with demo license you can ask online mostly demo players (rarely somebody with S1/S2 goes there as they have little patience with newbie players), who have very little experience with the game, while here in forum it's exact opposite, so if online you get "yaaay, we using F mode and it's making us faster" and here in forum you get "stop joking" responses, I'm afraid the later is much more relevant.

lol still...

what is so hard in understanding that sentence;

-remove force mode in hotlapping & online races. make it available on setup environment to make the game more realistic.

and you say to me like all others (but you write it with a different mouth)
that it doesnt give you advantage. lol the same **** another ***

Quote :

Or do some new wrs in F view, so we all can feel consequences of this dirty advantage.

yeah obviously i need a drill to put this into brains:

there are people that is faster than me. and i am for sure not the fastest and will never be. there are people that can beat me without F mode.

i am saying f mode gives advantage, and you are saying ''use it then, make some wrs, show us'' how stupid is that approaching? i dont even wanna be disturbed explaining again omg.