Quote from Yisc[NL] :

@S.E.T.H: I'm just wondering. How can you have such strong opinions on LFS and tell other people how they should feel about the game, while you are only around for 2 years and are a Demo racer? Unless I have missed something, you aren't really qualified to be on the high horse at this subject.

as you are not qualified to decide whether or not i am qualified to comment on LFS.

all my points are valid.

2 years of playing is a plenty long time to figure out a simple game and have opinions. playing 5 years or 10 years will not make you know more or make your opinions more valid nor more worthy.

i could have said the same thing about tyres after 1 day of playing lfs. just like i would say formula cars wouldnt have handbrake at first sight. lol

Quote from fatalunfair :

So, if LFS hasn't changed, has the reality changed???????

no, the times have changed. as the other sims feel more real, lfs feels less real. that is why i said "anymore".

in 15 years time the sims we call right now "the most amazing physics wow super graphics" those will feel much less real as well. and lfs even less. like an atari maybe.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Sat, 12 Apr 2014 07:04.

Quote from CarlLefrancois :

i ask you a question: what is it about the lfs tire model that stops you from having a good race against other people? that is what its design priorities were for.

you can hear the tire screech in lfs at 0.5 mph too, probably just need a full lock. rfactor and netkar has superior tyre model as you know. surprised you never mentioned AC there. it will be among the best if not the best. there cant be perfect simulation but some are closer to reality than the other.

its not about whether i have fun or not, its just wrong in lfs and the guy saying something about perfectionism just gave me an itch. he just doesnt want to accept the simple and obvious truth. lfs is just not close to reality (at least anymore) and its not realism what makes lfs good, its something else; menus, server listing, chatting in server, being able to change almost every single option while IN the car, voting, lfsworld, hotlap system, having your username but then choosing a nick that you like with all that colorful crap.. its good that way. especially MP makes you feel "free" but not physics.

for me having a good race doesnt determine the realism level of the sim, you can have good races in nfs too. i think what stops people (not just me) from playing something is both it falling behind the time and the feeling that it is left out. you see i didnt feel like suggesting removal of handbrake in formula cars, or maybe to improve online experience increasing that packets per limit thing from 6 to 15 or 20 etc.

Quote from wildstyle :

Scawen is a perfectionist. There's zero chance it will be released before he thinks it's 100% done. And it doesn't help that he seems to be a very stubborn fella too.
Perfectionism brought life to this sim - but it was also the cause of its death.

he just didnt work on it. get over it.

perfect simulation will never ever exist.

maybe he wanted to work on it, but then something happened, something that was impossible to fix within the current build of lfs. afterwards, he knew what he was supposed to do (re-coding lfs physics from scratch) but he didnt, he couldnt, he was compelled to keep it that way.

@Alric tyres in lfs are nowhere near best or among the best really. one easy glitch would be: they heat up too quickly, cool down too slow. get a tyre to 200 centigrade and just stop. while in real life it'd cool down to 80-90 in probably 40-60 sec, in lfs you need around 10 minutes. yes you read it right. even scirocco had to be postponed and new tyre model didnt really work out. how come one of the best tyre simulation can't make the car handle as good as the real one?

all of the wrs are done with oversteering, in racing oversteering mostly will cost you time. in lfs it helps you get quicker time. another result of it having wrong physics.

tyre cools down quicker once the rubber gets thinner?!

... what

tyre almost keeps the same traction as the brand new until it just have no more rubber. then it just pops.


its also weird in lfs that formula cars have handbrake. and actually using it helps you create oversteer sometimes even without locking the rear wheels! and you get quicker. i'd suggest the removal of that but i just see that he is not really likely to do it so i didnt.


finally, do not ever fool yourself into thinking that lfs has the best physics or even close now. looking at your registration date, its 2003. its been 11 years. such a long time that its not wrong to say this sim has become the reality for you. even though other sims are far more realistic, it might not feel right for you cause you rate them according to their similarity to lfs.

lfs is simple, easy to understand and good. thats what gets you. realism wise its "now" far behind.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Don't you have Forces view to try to get banned?

i havent given up on that. and maybe sca has it in his mind too, who knows

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

How is this on topic?

Get the stick out of your ass and quit trolling.

well dont feed me then.

mr special bodyguard of scawen

Quote from Scawen :

Similar thoughts...

I paid my money to an independent company. It's different now.

But I'm still looking forward to getting my Rift and believe it will come.

Would have preferred Oculus to stay independent but looking on the bright side, at least this is better than selling out to Microsoft for example.

people believed too that something would come..

see facebook having a delay on it and see how it feels

LFS will die truly only when people stop writing "meh lfs is dead".

everytime such a topic is started it gets hundreds of replies. let alone the readers.

and LOL @ the guy showing ss of a total of 50 cars in 19 different servers. no offense, this does not mean it is alive. neither does it mean its dead tho.

seems like lfs has been in hiatus for a long, long time. will it ever come back? i think there are still thosands of people who would give it 1 more go if it was ever updated. S3 has to come eventually cause scawen needs monies. (thats how he put it like when he answered to fordy's thread)

if you are ever coming here anyway it means you are really bored with your day (or life) and want to talk etc.

Quote from Scawen :

No, nothing specific. There are still a few things to do. I'll be interested to hear your comments on whatever you find important.

I didn't get a Rift, no, although I would have got one if I had known I would spend this long on it - it started out as a bit of a quick test of some minimal support, but I got more encouraged as it went on. Just had to a little bit here and a little bit there to keep making it better (several times over). I got enough detailed feedback and explanations from people to do a reasonable job. I plan to get the improved version as soon as it is available.

so you made that excellent rift support (so they say) without actually having a rift? damn. this guy has a brain in his head

why would anyone be proud of how many miles he drove? thats not really a thing.

how many qualifies have you won?
how many races have you won?
how many WRs do you hold?

if your answer to first 2 is "a few" and the last one is zero, you are nothing. any freak can leave his car running, but only talented people can get WR.

sorry for spoiling your party.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

sitting behind the computer does too

there is nothing we can do about it. but scawen can remove forces view altogether. maybe it can be available only in replays to check how the car acts. many people use it most of them claiming they have bad pc, if you have such a bad pc that cant run a sim which is mainly focused on feeling and not graphics, i advice you to pay for a new pc just like you pay for internet. aside, its a lie to justify their usage of it.

you say button clutches, macro? why dont you tell him?

Quote from Scawen :

You mean the shadows of the world objects? The ones that are all spiky and messy? I agree they are a problem but there's no quick solution for that. Really I want to get to the point where the sun can move in the sky and the shadows can move, as part of a changing weather system.

But this is after a tyre physics update. I'm trying to get realistic about the tyre physics update, to make a good solid version that works well and makes LFS cars feel great (because of the force combinations that are mathematically based) with good simulation of tyre load sensitivity but not worry too much about extreme detail as it will never exactly match reality.

and by the way disable forces view in online racing and hotlapping! it ruins realism.

Quote from MrSam :

Hello to all,

Congratulations to s.e.t.h who won the license S2 with 11697 points.
I already sent the code voucher S2 to s.e.t.h.

Now we will begin the LAST championship for the month of December.

Good luck to all and congratulations to s.e.t.h.

Sam

hi,

thanks Sam so much for keeping the championship fair and bring in lfs new racers.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:53.

Quote from sinbad :

As much as he has dug himself a hole to climb from with some ranting and opining as though it's fact, I think s.e.t.h has a point. I don't agree 100% but there is some truth to it imo.

its impossible to go on without some ranting there are kids capable of making anyone angry but promise i'll not lose time with them anymore

Quote from Nilex :

Remember me young Sith? Do you have the multiplayer replay of us from last year where i tired to explain why it is suboptimal way of driving with forces view?

i do remember you. and i do remember exactly what you told me. it was not enough back then and its not enough now. sadly i dont have the replay because i hadnt saved it back then. you should try the forces view first in blackwood+fbm combo, do some laptimes. and try to do again the same laps with just cockpit view. i tried the style you had told me but it doesnt work. in games it doesnt, maybe in reality it works. so you should try this forces view.

Quote from GAVD999 :

Take your hot lap combo, fbm @ bl1 the current world record holder has done 14951 online laps, that doesn't include all the attempts they have done offline in hot lap mode or single player. Do you really think that after that many laps he needs to see his front wheel to make sure he is on the perfect line?

http://uppit.com/8p86v3vjzoeo/proof_2.mpr

Online statistics for: exzibit FBM/Blackwood: 79760 laps
"i like to see my front tyres, i use forces view"

Quote from Flame CZE :

As for the skins, I can easily turn off car skin downloads, so I won't see your skin anyway. Does it mean the automatic skin download feature should be mandatory?

i'll use the default skins so its np

still its not a problem. i'd rather have my car look like a white fbm car than a strange driver sitting on air and has 4 tyres without suspensions and engine and has more than 4 sticks to play with.

Quote from Biohazard :

now how exactly is the force mode an advantage over this custom view?

if you meant cockpit mode, you can see the width of the front tyres easily. and you drive the regular cockpit view which is the best view but you are able to see the front tyres.

if you meant the tyres only/no car body mode, its not changing the looks of other cars and its harder with that mode because virtual steering gauge doesnt help as much as a cockpit view does. seeing both the wheel of the car and tyres clearly is much better than seeing only the tyres. still, i think the hotlaps should be done with cockpit view only, not custom view or forces view. in races there could be custom views for me its okay. but hotlap is a serious competition and should stay like that.

and i dont want any user to see my car strange and odd like that. i have skins to present.

here are the examples of how custom view doesnt, but forces view does destroy the game;

here is the forces view

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

by pressing v once, the same effect is there, only you don't see the wheel and the fps is lower. you stated before that you wouldn't mind that, but it is almost exactly the same.



where did I say something else? but just the site itself. I got a 404. that's why it's better to just upload them here in your comment.

no its not the same effect. when you use mouse you NEED to see the wheel of the car to feel the direction of the car itself. with wheel it might not be a problem but with mouse it is. and forces view changes the looks of other cars while the custom views do not.

no you did not get 404. you just believed the other guy and went for it. and now you are lying. and links are there working nicely.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

The same goes for mouse, for some it gives an advantage and for some it doesn't. Arcade racers who don't need ffb and car feeling have an advantage over wheel.

arcade racers will not be able to compete with sim racers. car feeling and ffb and throttle-brake adjusting will effect the times and they are advantage over mouse. period.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

Someone is faster than you and uses F mode. That doesn't mean he's faster because of F mode. You just are a bad loser

it means he is faster because of that mode when he cant compete with me in a FCV server.


Originally Posted by S.E.T.H
forces view is a view to analyse the car. yet, its not a view to drive the car.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

And a mouse isn't a controller to drive the car with.

you dont get it do you?

go to the options in game, controllers tab;

-keyboard
-keyboard stabilised
-mouse
-wheel

so it IS a controller to drive the car with.

go to the views in the game:

there are many views which you can adapt to your driving style but forces view is NOT among them. which means its not a view to drive, but a view to analyse the car. period.

hopefully that is my last reply to you as you got all your questions answered correctly. dont lie next time. it is bad.

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Fri, 25 Oct 2013 12:52.

Quote from col :

@S.E.T.H

There are only two possible outcomes here, you might as well choose and be done with it:

good luck choosing

#3 i dont have any anger or something, trust me i'll just get the sim if i am sure forces view will not be used as a driving view. those fast people in blackwood+fbm demo wont be able to do the same times without the mode. so we will be equal. i am myself going faster with it. so, i prove more people getting advantage of the mode, abusing it and eventually one of the devs will say: if we didnt develop this mode for the low spec pc users or as a driving view, why dont just we block it from being used/abused in servers? and LFS continues to be a great sim without that glitch.

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

I'm trying the hardest to look even stupider than you. It's damn hard tough. (in other words, I'm not taking you serious anymore)

I mean it's again a thread about something called not important. You don't get any advantage out of it. Also you complain about it 'taking away realism', even tough you use a damn mouse (which gives people who are good with it advantage).

you even said that F mode is the best VIEW you can get, but it's not a VIEW. What would you call it? coconuts?

as i explained and as any average person could understand mouse is not an advantage over a wheel. force feedback, feeling of the wheel, feeling of the kerbs, feeling of the brakes etc. with mouse there is only on/off throttle and braking as i explained. every mouse user is using mouse because they dont have a proper wheel. not because they are faster with it. so using mouse is about the player while forces view is about the devs. just like banning button clutch usage. you wont be able to block drivers from using it by telling them. devs will block it and it wont be used. simple as that.

if forces view is abused by some people as i provided replays about this, its up to the devs to make sure its used for the intended purpose.

so, you said replay links were broken, what happened now you say something else? why try to change the subject? so replays links were NOT broken as i said.
thats a good example how you make up things in your mind F mode gives advantage, maybe not to some people but it DOES give advantage. and i have provided replays to prove it. i have completed 3000 laps after a dev answered checking every other view to see if its any advantage or not and yes. it IS advantage. so take your jokes along with your stupidity and get out of my thread. i need opinions from people, opinions that do mean something. yours is just ''no it just doesnt give advantage'' well its just about the capacity you had when you said links were broken and it turned out to be what? wrong once more.

forces view is a view to analyse the car. yet, its not a view to drive the car. i wrote the simplest i could for the last time expecially for you. you are another guy to be lost in the dust because his parents didnt teach him how to respect

Quote from CodeLyoko1 :

yes.

you wanna look stupid dont cha?

soon someone will download it and you will have feelings when i say links are not dead, it means i have checked and links are not dead.

Quote from GAVD999 :

The links are dead

no.

Quote from GAVD999 :

You really don't, you have just convinced yourself that somehow force view makes you quicker so now you drive focused on the fact because you are using force view your times will drop. Its the same as racing/playing wearing a lucky item of clothing or whatever, it's just in your mind.

As someone else has mentioned, in the time I have been on lfs and the forum you are the only person I have ever known mention/complain about the force view.

check out the replays i shared.

Quote from Eclipsed :

Herr Seth,why you never answered this question?

duh. because the answer was obvious. if i wasnt being faster using this or if i didnt know any other who does effectively use forces view to drive faster why would i keep saying people get advantages unfairly and that it should be banned? i am faster when i use it because i can see the road better. but do i like using it? never. do i have to use it to compete with the others who are using it? i have to.

Quote from MadCatX :

"I don't want to drive in force view because I don't like it and I want to impose this restriction on others because I think it gives them some sort of advantage." That's a very selfish attitude IMHO...

well

i dont want forces view to be available while racing because its simply killing the realism and its not designed so that people can see more and drive faster in the first place. nor designed for lower spec pcs.

i cant get any constructive comments from you, you are going to lfsw and trying several minutes looking for wrs set by mouse. you find 3-5 hotlaps and you are happy. if i try for an hour i can put hundreds of hardest toughest freaking wrs set by wheel users and what, i will win then? do you need me to do this really? i am telling you simply, wheel is simply an advantage over mouse and there are several reasons. and most of the mouse drivers will be faster with wheel. only if they can get a proper one. e.g if i had a proper wheel i'd not be disadvantaged and be slower with this silly mouse.

anyway, i told you, you last raced 3 years ago. which means the last time (1.5-2yrs ago) i was talking about this mode you werent even racing back then! wow. you probably forgot about the sim already and you are hungry for more answers as you are here to talk. yet i am here to let the devs know a glitch about their game, they developed forces view so people can analyse their car and act accordingly, but some users are abusing the view to drive faster. ignoring the skins created by other users, and getting unfair advantage. so, i hope you can get answers from other people and write more. because that one is my last to you :wave2:

Last edited by S.E.T.H, Thu, 24 Oct 2013 19:06.