Quote from JJ72 :

NFS underground 2 has not bad physics imo, i've beaten the game twice

Yet you don't understand why I wrote of my experiences with Rfactor and what I think of LFS in this very thread named "Rfactor vs LFS"?

NFS Underground 2? What are you smoking?

Last edited by rabidmaddog, Mon, 8 May 2006 22:27.

Quote from JJ72 :

I don't understand why you would like to type such a long thread specificly on R-factor on a LFS forum, look we don't have a fetish in this particular sim.

I am sorry, but I was under the impression that a thread named "Rfactor vs LFS" would be a good place for my assesments of both simulators, not to mention my dismal experience with Rfactor. I do not write the information to make myself feel better. I simply hope it will help others, assuming they can read. As you can see, Canadians can read.

Last edited by rabidmaddog, Mon, 8 May 2006 22:12.

I've been playing LFS for several months and I am very impressed. I wanted to try Rfactor since I have heard some positive reviews. My following assessment of Rfactor will not be positive, you've been warned.

The first thing I noticed was the rather odd counter-steering in Rfactor. Despite many hours experimenting with different cars, setups, and controller settings, I was never able to control any but the most trivial of over-steer situations. I've driven silly in real cars on a closed "course" and know how counter-steering influences the rotation and direction of the car. Rfactor simply doesn't have it right, at least not as it plays on my system. Incidentally, I noticed the same thing in the GTR demo, as well as other MODs by Simbin. It's almost as though a spin is a scripted event and there is simply no stopping it regardless of what one does with the steering wheel. Loosing the back end beyond a certain point, sure, those cases are hopeless, but I am talking about easily correctable over-steer situations. In LFS on the other hand, I can control a slide with counter-steering and throttle adjustments just like in a real car.

Additionally, I've encountered nightmare stability problems with Rfactor. I've encountered video lock-ups where the audio keeps running, entire game lock-ups where the entire simulator freezes up, full system lock-ups which respond to ctrl-alt-del, full system lock-ups which do not respond to ctrl-alt-del, and even fatal errors resulting in the blue screen of death/reboot. These will occur while driving solo, in a full field, while navigating menus, and while selecting a track or a car. I've driven for 20 minutes without incident, and other times only 30 seconds until a game or system freeze. The overwhelming consensus on the Rfactor forum is that the problem is GPU overheating. Hmm, I don't think so. Here’s why...

The issue I have with the overheating explanation is that a video card, at least a properly designed one, is designed to be stable at 100% load. Its performance is determined by its processor and clock frequency. Unless it is over-clocked, there is no magical means by which a game will load the GPU beyond 100%; it simply will not perform any more calculations per second. When detail settings and resolution in a game require more GPU horsepower than the 100% a video card is capable of, it becomes evident in reduced frame rates. Overheating should not occur unless there is a cooling problem such as dust, high internal case temperatures, high ambient temperatures, inoperable fans, or a video card or driver design flaw. I have none of these conditions at the moment, and I'm sure many of you do not as well. Other games which will also load the GPU into oblivion (100%) should also induce the alleged overheating problem, but they do not. Additionally, navigating game menus, and selecting cars/tracks in Rfactor does not substantially load an Nvidia 6800GT or any other video card. Freezing, if not completely crashing the OS in a simple menu, can not possibly be a result of overheating.

I've tried Rfactor with less demanding video resolutions and detail settings. I've tried it using DX7, DX8, and DX9. I've also tried various sound configurations. The instability persisted and lock-ups would occur at seemingly random intervals regardless of CPU/GPU load. The instability, which is some of the worst I've ever seen in a game/simulator, including demos, along with the odd counter-steering physics, ultimately resulted in my refund request.

I think Rfactor is promising, but it's my opinion that it needs more work. Following my 10 hour fiasco of reading forums and experimenting with various Rfactor settings, I decided to drive for a while in Live For Speed. The difference is as night is to day. Counter steering actually works, steering in general feels much more precise, providing much better control over slides. In the several months I've been playing LFS it's been 100% stable. I feel somewhat guilty for even trying Rfactor and feel like I should send the guys at LFS some more money for my betrayal in buying Rfactor and installing it on the same PC. LOL.

I Hope this helps save some people from the issues I've encountered with Rfactor. I love LFS and it just keeps getting better. Bravo!

Last edited by rabidmaddog, Mon, 8 May 2006 21:59.

Quote from somasleep :

Has anyone here ever tried racing a real car?

Once I've saved enough pocket change to buy my Ferrari F430 and get it on a track, I'll let you know.

A short story...
A friend of mine, who is a reaonably skilled driver, was once challenged by some clown in one of those customized Asian street racers. You know, the ones with the giant exhaust pipes which sound like a lawnmower. Custom suspension, souped up engine, fancy tires, a butt-ugly ineffective wing on the trunk which did nothing but make the car slower, etc. (Please tell me these are never seen in Europe).

Anyway, my friend blew his doors off in his stock, tiny, Toyota pickup truck. We both laughed for about an hour.

Moral of the story, technique can be far more relevant than the equipment. Sure, the pickup truck won't do so well against an F1 car, LOL, unless perhaps that same idiot is driving the F1. With respect to technique, I think LFS is valuable as a training aid. Nothing is a replacement for the real thing however, although LFS is much safer and far less expensive.

Last edited by rabidmaddog, Mon, 8 May 2006 20:29.

Rolling Stones: "You can't always get what you want".

I want a Ferrari F430, but I can't afford one. There are certainly more important things in life. If the demo is the best you can do, play the demo.

I just thought of a new T-shirt slogan. "I'm broke and need money for race car simulator"

Every time I look for servers on which to drive, I only have about 5 or 6 choices which are not empty or full. Last night for example, I found I was the only driver in the BF1. A couple others joined in or switched to the BF1, but then disconnected as they were evidently having difficulty keeping the car on the track. I don't see any servers filled with BF1's in my server list. I have a hard time finding any servers at all with more than 3 or 4 people in them. This is why I spend more time driving against the AI I suppose. It was rather disappointing to be leading a 5 car race, only to win after everyone had left the server.

As far as the BF1 being hard to control, I don't know what all the fuss is about. Sure it's fast and takes some practice, but I can drive laps just fine with reasonably decent times. I feel more confident in the BF1 than any of the other cars. It performs, pure and simple. Sure, I'll make a mistake once in a while, but I don't understand why some people find it so tricky to drive. I don't think I'm any phenomenal driver, so perhaps they have poor quality or poorly configured controllers? I don't know. I think the car is great. I just wish I could find some of these alleged BF1 infested servers so I can race more. Perhaps I’m online at the wrong time for the European crowd and no one here in USA is racing? Could the server filters be malfunctioning? I would happily race with all of the mystical BF1 drivers if I could only find them!

Quote from JTbo :

Oh yes, I too have found that typical 5 lapper race is just too short for BF1 race setup, it takes indeed 3 laps to get tires to operating temp, so you can start pushing after 3 laps and server races are still just 5 laps for some odd reason

Indeed. Also, a 5 lap race in the BF1 is over in 4 minutes! LOL.

Quote from ErockCTS :

well im a newbie to this game and ill slow down and pull over to a side when i see a blue flag pop up ... if im in the middle of an S turn slow down and then pass on the straight dont try and run me off the road ... ive raced many of games from arcade to simulation (mostly Forza and Xbox way to many hours in that game)

i have limited knowledge of the different set ups but im learning and i hate playing offline because an AI can always be beat ... humans adapt and learn making it more fun

so if anyone sees me online say Hey want some help if you see me spun out in the sand dont be like ... why did you not let me pass you on that s turn u made me crash ... i havnt been around long enough ( 2 days) but i do notice only a few people will help the newbies out but if you all dont pitch in and help its gonna get worse and less and less people

I'll help you solely because you can spell "newbie" correctly.
There's actually a very good LFS S2 manual available which gives a good explanation of how to implement the various setup parameters. There's one page which covers the basics of handling and setups in a nice little table format. I use it to adjust my real formula 1 car...oh wait..I was dreaming that part...

Last edited by rabidmaddog, Tue, 25 Apr 2006 00:09.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Oh it's gone all the way from newbie to n00b and eventually to "nub" as FPS twitch gamers have gradually got stupider and stupider over the years.

Yeah, no kidding. Back when I started gaming on my Atari and the cars were composed of a few flat rectangles, there was no Internet and certainly no online gaming chat. Despite our somewhat limited technology at the time, at least we knew how to spell...

Personally, I enjoy trying to avoid accidents which have occurred on the track as well as passing slower traffic. I love the AI pile-ups, as well as those with real drivers. I also enjoy the dynamics of having faster and slower cars on the track at the same time. Sure, driving in a nice orderly paceline with no accidents is also fun, but I prefer a little variety and perhaps a bit of chaos on the track myself. I certainly try my best not to cause any accidents, but mistakes and accidents are a part of racing weather real or simulated, by both experienced and inexperienced drivers. I just drive the best I can and don't worry about it.

However, I really would like to know who changed the term "newbie" to "noobie". If we can all agree on one thing, let it be that the term's orrigin is the word "new", not "noo". “Newbie” is actually in the dictionary. “Noobie” is not. I had to complain about something and "noobie" was the most trivial issue I could think of. LOL.

As for the BMW Sauber F1, it’s an awesome car. I just wish F1’s still had 900hp! 700 will have to do

Quote from sgt.flippy :

I keep wondering what everyone's fascination is with the Delorean, I can't help finding it an ugly stupid car Oh well, whatever floats your delorean.

I never liked it much either. Although the flux capacitor/time travel capability might help me win some races...

Quote from Hankstar :

We need a DeLorean. You all know you want one.

With a flux capacitor?

Ever since 1985 I've wanted a white Testarossa...
I know some of you know what I'm talking about