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migf1
S2 licensed
I'd say a good setup is about 20% to 30% of the final outcome, with the rest being the driver's skill (practising including). And setup-wise there's more than one way to achieve fast laptimes (meaning, two or more completly different setups are capable of producing similar laptimes, not necessarily driven by the same driver though).

Before patch Z the default setups were not good at all, they are supposed to be better in patch Z but I haven't tried them.
As others have already said, even if the same setup was enforced online you'd find out that you would pretty much again been beaten the same way by the guys who beat you now

Practice is the key
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :The only problem is that cutting turns slightly hardly ever causes accidents, place some tyres and cones there and suddenly you get massive crashes from people not knowing they are there, then the debris hits everyone else. CTRA do this quite a lot for some reason, they take something quite safe and harmless, then stick objects in the way to make it more dangerous.

My rule of thumb is to use as much of the track as the (offline hotlapping) HLVC system allows. Once you are familiar with that (trained), I see no problem racing oniline with physical obstacles dictating HLVC valid passing through the corners under question.
Pickup races may be a different matter, due to many people racing for the 1st time, but still ethically it's better to learn the track in the HLVC way from the begining
migf1
S2 licensed
The easy fix for this is to use layouts on the server (ie having cones, tyres, etc on the spots under question)
migf1
S2 licensed
Unless an official fix occurs, I beleive all hotlaps with both CL and AC flags being off will not get any respect from the guys who's opinions matter the most in a hotlap competition such as the LFSW Hotlaps.
migf1
S2 licensed
And paid well too
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from sanderman2000 :
[snip]
Thats the question,that i am searching answer for...
Talent is great, talented people can progress faster...
But can very motivated racer with alot of "Smart" practice - reach the WR?

Unless they seriously lack talent, yes they can. But it may take time! Accumulated experience along with observative thinking always helps.
Last edited by migf1, .
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from marzman :
[snip]

Isn't that normal in racingleagues? Schumager didn't moan he had to drive Monza year after year (not saying i would not appreciate new content)

Why should he? He was driving one of the most famous tracks ever in motorsports!
migf1
S2 licensed
I think it's a little bit of both, talent and practice! Neither one alone is good enough!
Even if you are talented and can move fast within a few laps in an uknonwn combo, without practicing your talent you won't be able to "eat" those tenths needed to beat that damn wr (or move consistently around it).
And vice versa, if you are less talented (but you still have some talent) you can make up by practicing hard.
In all cases, patience & persistance usually pays off
migf1
S2 licensed
@Chaos: that's shocking news, it was indeed a great opportunity for the community to have at least one rl track (and from what I see in rf it's a great track).
I don't understand why the devs still keep such a negative attitude against rl tracks (even when they are offered just to dictate the community -or a small talented fraction of it- for the track making instead of making them themselves). I respect their decisions though!

I beleive that rl tracks are essential for LFS future, since things now are not the same as they were some years ago. The competition nowdays is a lot stronger (re-birth of rf with the real feel plugin and proper car physics, i-racing, race07) and "leaks" from lfs to those sims happen quite more often imho and also more newcomers are attracted from those other sims. I think the devs realise that and I beleive sooner or later it's invetible to include at least a couple of rl tracks in LFS (laser scanned or not).
migf1
S2 licensed
Sometimes it helps to take a break and try again after a while. Other times it helps to try the car on different tracks (or other cars in the same track) and return after a while to the combo you are most interested in. Other times it helps to try a completely differenet combo (or combos) for a while before you get back to the one you are interesetd in. Also, it often helps to tweak a bit the setup, in order to bring it closer to your particulal style of driving.

There's not really a formula.
migf1
S2 licensed
@aIM BLR:
No, no I don't "prohibit" anything (I couldn't even if i wanted to :tilt. What I was trying to say is that now when both CL and AC flags are off, then automatically one becomes supsicious whether the hotlapper has used the macro or not.

@Glenn67:
I agree! I was just referring to the situation as it is right now
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from arrowkart4 :mate, im telling you, ask duck if u dont beleive me, every time i have to change gears, i press the right hand button on my g25

One side-effect of all this fuss is that now all hotlaps NOT showing the AC and the CL flag on the charts, become pretty much suspicious of using the macro.

The only safe way to have all people be 100% convinced that they are ethically valid laps is to be re-uploaded with the AC flag on
Last edited by migf1, .
migf1
S2 licensed
Yesterday I did my own test too, I was in CTRA when Need For Weed first humored me as his No1 enemy and then asked me for my setup for the XFG@SO2R. I already knew that his wr with XFG@SO2 was most probably done with the macro, since neither AC nor CL flag is on in the charts. So I gave him the setup (which btw was not made by me, its partyboy's) and when he told me he intends to brake my (not so good) wr in that combo and disconnected I left him a message in LFSW asking him not to use the macro, in the name of the fairplay.

What's left for this test to get completed is to see what will Need For Weed do (no answer in my msg so far)

PS. Btw, with this setup the current XFG@SO2R wr has at least 1 more tenth (according to my best sectors combined from different laps: 45.460+18.790).
Last edited by migf1, .
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from Glenn67 :I did read that before and I do take it on board (I don't disbelieve you), I was just saying I'm not 100% convinced it actually is from the faster clutch action

If it is such an obvious thing many people should be able to replicate it. It is possible it's caused by something else is all I'm saying, like a combination of factors on certain peoples setup (i.e. could be a bug) and that I'd be interested in seeing it investigated further.

bawbag, worm, arco, duck, who have posted on this topic, are amongst the guys who can drive consistently many laps in a pace close to the(ir) wrs. When they all agree to the advantage the macro gives, there isn't really any reson for anyone not to count on their oppinion.

As for me, I have never used it and I never will (not even for testing it). Although my human nature would very much like to fill in the charts with wr's, I'm not that desparate for them to use unethical means (not that I could, with or without the macro ). And this goes to any hotlap, not only wr's.
Last edited by migf1, .
migf1
S2 licensed
Aston and Kyoto are also very good tracks, Westhill has the potential to be really good too! However, this is not related to the immersion boost any rl track would give to lfs. But rl tracks may require twice (or more) the time and effort to be made.
migf1
S2 licensed
I meant road-car as opposed to single-seaters! But yes, the H-shifter enabled cars is a better way to separate them.
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from FlintFredstone :Guys,

To help the argument, im going to practice with fbm tonight with no profiling, i'll update you to how i get on (slower/faster)

Simon

It's much better to experiment with road cars (the UFR for example).
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from Glenn67 :Yes but it's all a matter of perspective isn't it, if you have a clutch and H pattern setup and are using a realistic amount of wheel rotation/ffb while running in the road cars, and those that you are racing with are using autoclutch, sequential shifting and very low wheel rotation/ffb then you could be forgiven for thinking they have an unfair advantage. So by that rule they are cheating

Nope, it's crystal clear! The macro is an automation never intended or supported by the sim itself.
migf1
S2 licensed
In that case you need to have also provided the admin pass in the corresponding field on the screen shown just before you create the server (or in the server's cfg file in case you're using a dedi one).
migf1
S2 licensed
Just join the server with the admin pass and you'll have admin rights
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from [DUcK] :Yeah I guess.
As for knowing about pedal clutch, it wouldn't be too hard to tell. Most people would be RF braking, if not they will rev match and put it in gear, and wont be using a clutch on downshift.

If I'm not mistaken (please correct me if I am), as far as the LFSW charts are concerned, people using pedal clutch have the CL flag on.

EDIT: Cheat or exploit doesn't matter the naming, the essence is it gives an unfair advantage.
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from hugoluis :I think it's a cheat.

Losing a race for a cheater is the same thing as winning the race and the cheater doesnt existing.

Do not forget, my friends, there will always be someone cheating the rules! And the desire to be able, to like, to have, will always want to try to be better than the other people for some way. That is the nature of humans.

That is why I am not mad those who seek to cheat. They have bad-fame, I do not. I always search for the fair side, I always value the respect, the passion of the simulator.

A cheater to me is a person that lacks respect for others.

If that's the case, would you care to re-do your road-car hotlaps, but using the auto-clutch this time?
migf1
S2 licensed
How about keep using the existant, legitimate system without using any cheats/exploits?
migf1
S2 licensed
I want real life tracks so I can connect to reality, as simple as that. Existing LFS cars already offer me this connection, since they come in a variety of types which can be setup to simulate the behaviour of real life cars.
migf1
S2 licensed
Quote from Glenn67 :
[snip]
And about the above, sorry but I disagree I can do a 1 1/2 hour race with 240deg just fine... but I also could drive fast with an xbox controller in long races
[snip]

Racing or... cruising?

I'd love to see you racing competitevly (how is this thing spelled? ) for example with the XFR in 1 1/2 hours race using 240 deg... let's say in FE

Quote :Anyway guys if you read my posts carefully you will see that I actually agree that something should be done about the fast gear changes from within LFS, I don't dispute that. I just dispute vilafying anyone that may have used or uses a macro to change gears. And also wanted to point out that if you persue realism in LFS in all options then you are more than likely going to be slower than someone who doesn't.

No argument that we don't play level, due to different setings and equipment. The thing is what is considered legal or ethical, based on the available options ingame. Following your logic, I wonder why Scawen blocked TweakLFS on the master server!
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