OK, you click, then after the race, you get a prompt:
Do you really want to send this report ?
| OK |---------------------| CANCEL |
This does highlight a potential problem with auto reporting:
In the past when I've considered sending reports I have always reviewed the replay first (If I'm not willing to put in the effort, then why the hell should some poor overworked unpaid CTRA grunt have to do it
)Fairly often, I see that it is just a simple racing incident and not worth wasting anyones time on... with auto-reporting all these would have to go to the CTRA mods... not to mention all the 'spam' reports that would start arriving from the same folks that do the barging, tap passing, braketesting, cutting, wrecking etc.
How are you going to deal with this? (assuming it happens - I see problems everywhere, comes from being a software developer)
cheers
Col
Last edited by col, .
... because using the new in-sim buttons system, there is a 'report' button for each racer on the connections list - just press it and you reported the blighter... ?
If I see a blue flag, I take a mental note of the situation ready for the bug report... no way I'd be getting lapped 
Seriously though hot heads who believe that back markers should just disappear by magic as they approach are just half of the problem.
Another big part of the problem is that in LFS (and any other racing sim) being aware of whats happening behind and to each side of the car is difficult - that makes being passed difficult.. add to that the fact that most often the driver getting the blue flag is inexperienced and so not comfortable with look buttons, and its obvious that there will be incidents
Often the inexperienced drivers don't even know that the look buttons exist, and those that do don't realise that you can switch from the totally impractical and disorientating 'smooth' look to the very useful and easy to get the hang of (IMO) 'instant' version. (in my dim memory smooth was the default - maybe not now, or it never was... I dunno).. anyhow, when your sitting stationary, it seems that smooth would be much easier, but in practice at race pace the opposite is true... A racer should be able to look around, left and right while racing in traffic mid-corner without 'losing it'
Maybe one of the lessons (maybe its there I've not checked them for years) should involve using the look buttons and answering some kind of question about what you saw as you passed something mid turn... you would have to be going at race pace through a tricky 'S' section to 'pass' and also be able to answer a multiple choice about some randomly variable graphic on a board at the apex... maybe 4 boards 2 left, 2 right all angled away, so you can only see them using 'look', one has a star marked on it, you have to say which one... and what colour the star was...
Seriously though hot heads who believe that back markers should just disappear by magic as they approach are just half of the problem.
Another big part of the problem is that in LFS (and any other racing sim) being aware of whats happening behind and to each side of the car is difficult - that makes being passed difficult.. add to that the fact that most often the driver getting the blue flag is inexperienced and so not comfortable with look buttons, and its obvious that there will be incidents
Often the inexperienced drivers don't even know that the look buttons exist, and those that do don't realise that you can switch from the totally impractical and disorientating 'smooth' look to the very useful and easy to get the hang of (IMO) 'instant' version. (in my dim memory smooth was the default - maybe not now, or it never was... I dunno).. anyhow, when your sitting stationary, it seems that smooth would be much easier, but in practice at race pace the opposite is true... A racer should be able to look around, left and right while racing in traffic mid-corner without 'losing it'
Maybe one of the lessons (maybe its there I've not checked them for years) should involve using the look buttons and answering some kind of question about what you saw as you passed something mid turn... you would have to be going at race pace through a tricky 'S' section to 'pass' and also be able to answer a multiple choice about some randomly variable graphic on a board at the apex... maybe 4 boards 2 left, 2 right all angled away, so you can only see them using 'look', one has a star marked on it, you have to say which one... and what colour the star was...
Bails are f*****g big, f*****g heavy and f*****g hard !
you know they even build houses with them these days - just like bricks
Makes sense to me:
CTRA has been going for a while now, I would guess that the majority of experienced and fast racers have got their silver by now, and although some of them still race on the bronze servers for fun, it must be easier to get a decent finishing position than it was a few months ago?
Yes, this can be really annoying - often in xrt, the guys in front are FXOs, I will pull into the centre to go between the two fxos in fornt - the number of times an RB4 has tried and often succeeded in barging me out of the way is amazing... the attitude seems to be "I'm faster off the line so you MUST get out of the way, if you don't I will hit you !".
There is a flip side of course, many times I've moved up along side an FXO during the start only to be squeezed off the track or smashed into the barriers... thats the "Just because you start faster and got up alongside cleanly doesn't give you the right to pass me sucker".
=========================
Heres another common one that really annoys me - I'd like to know what other think about this:
Most obvious at SO classic... first lap, approaching hairpin. At least one driver will move over to the inside and brake very late having to almost stop by the apex.. the cars following the 'correct' line, have to brake very early a long way before the turn in point because they are in a queue, so he gets his 'fair' overlap on a few of the other cars, and they feel obliged to let him have the apex...
So whats the ruling on this one ?
Does a queue of cars count as one car and you have to have overlap on the front car to have corner rights on the inside ?
Does the normal ruling change from '50% overlap at turn in point' to '50% overlap at braking point' ?
I would have thought that if you're not in the queue, you really should be forced to wait for the queue to pass ?
In real races I've watched, I don't remember seeing cars going three wide into T1 when its a hairpin - is that normal ?
Should I be moving right over to the inside of the track and braking late to defend against the guy behind ? I do do this if I've lost places in an earlier race and it does work, but it doesn't feel right to me... sometimes it is the only way to defend your position depending on who is behind.
I apologise, I shouldn't have made this 'personal'...
I don't pretend to be a perfect driver, I know I make mistakes, and do sometimes tap other drivers - thing is, after I tap someone, I wait for them to regain control before racing them again - the only time I would consider overtaking someone after contact is if they had already spun or hit the wall and that error had caused the contact e.g. I had been unsighted or unable to avoid. IMO that makes a huge difference. If there are any incidents of me misreading the situation and taking an unfair advantage, I'll be happy to accept a suitable licence/points reduction
anyhow, back to the topic:
Its not about cars/people having different breaking points, it's about understanding the many possible reasons why YOU might have to brake earlier than you would like - and accepting that if you get it wrong, you have to let the driver you hit regain the place in front you and get back up to racing speed before challenging them again.
With an online sim, lots of things can cause trouble - maybe you over estimated the ability of the driver in front.... maybe its just LAG or one of those LFS "WeeJimmy|><| left the pits" stutter glitches that caused the incident !
Lets say it was nobodies fault, just a slight lag meant that reacting quick enough was not possible... in that case, it isn't your fault, and its not the other drivers fault, so the outcome should be that you both keep the same place you had with respect to each other in the race ie. they stay ahead of you ! its only fair
...Maybe the driver in front got a stutter glitch while braking and got a little out of shape - again, not his fault and not yours - again if you hit the back of him as a result, the fair outcome is to ease off and let them get it back under control...
OK, so to expect that kind of fair play from everyone would be very naive, which is why there are nice simple rules
hehe, I've had that 'Traffic Approaching" warning when I was the only person on the track
Getting the feeling that you are misunderstanding some basic logical reality of approaching a corner when behind another car. (you're not the only one
)If 2 cars are approaching a slow corner - both drivers are equally skilled, the second car cannot use the braking point he would use when driving alone - otherwise he will HIT THE OTHER CAR ! the car behind must brake earlier that he would when driving alone - not just a little earlier:
At least a car length + gap earlier ! (really a car length + gap earlier than the guy in fronts braking point )
If the car in front is an XRT and the one behind is an FXO, then the one behind must brake at least a cars length + gap earlier than XRT braking point (not FXO braking point which is often later !).
some basic logic:
(s)he is in front
he will reach the optimum braking point sooner
he will brake at this point
when he brakes he will slow down rapidly
if you don't brake when he brakes you will be going much faster
if you are going much faster and the gap was tiny, you will hit him
If you hit him in this manner it is your fault
Basically if you don't brake WHEN HE BRAKES you will smash into him - pretty simple....
the only exception I can think of is when you feel you can brake late enough to get a fair overlap before he begins turning... of course, in that scenario, you have to move over to pull along side - can't just out brake him up his rear :-o
The fact that you are having to brake much earlier then you would on a clear lap to avoid contact does not mean that the other driver is driving defensive or trying to trick you or any other sneaky tactic - they're just braking for the corner
I have watched you racing and tapping other drivers - when I watched, none of them were braking early or over cautiously, and none of them were trying to 'catch you out' in any way, you were just going in a little too hot and nudging them !
Anyway, if the car in front brakes in the braking zone for a corner and you tap them you must wait for them to recover control of their car before you start racing them again (even if you lose places).
If they brake unfairly in a way designed to cause a crash, then report them and they will be dealt with (assuming it was an unfair move)
Last edited by col, .
of COURSE Man UTD - that goes without saying
Schumaker not Ferrari
I also like Valentino Rossi, Tiger Woods, Stephen Hendry, Shane Warne, St. Louis Cardinals, Italy, Michael Phelps... f*** the underdog...
Pretty funny coming from Coulthard
he always seemed to kack up his qualifying more than most - especially when it was one flying lap...Anyway... you would still have the option of not doing a hot lap and starting at the back - if thats your thing
fwiw, I didn't expect much support for qualifying, but I really don't understand why, at least for the longer races.
@Becky
"I think I might already have fixed this in the new software"
Does this mean you can't do quali? you are doing quali? or you have an alternative feature that solves (some of) the issues I think quali might solve?
cheers
Col
nah, you get the cool points from overtaking the fast guys at the front
nobody notices you getting past the slow half of the pack - unless you get involved in an accident :|
race format / qualifying
The thread about pitstops got me thinking more generally about race format and what things might make the overall CTRA experience more fun, more 'real' and more varied.
Personally I would prefer the 'endurance' races to be a bit longer - also for the non - endurance races to be a bit longer on the 'pro' servers... maybe have a 'sprint' day
Am I correct in thinking that when there are more racers in the server, the number of laps is increased ?
If it is, I think it should be increased by more
It would also be nice on endurance day to have qualifying sessions - that way, you don't have to drive through many very long races to work your way towards the front of the grid (Thats one of the nice features about GPL - you look in the server list for a qualifying session with a few minutes left to go - run a good lap and you're starting on the grid alongside people who are at your level. I've always been amazed by how few LFS servers use qualifying).
It would be good when driving longer races to be able to take a break without losing your position on the grid - qualifying would give this option...
It would also help in those infuriating situations where you've spent three races working your way up the grid at south city only to be taken out in an accident and dumped to the back of the grid again.
I dunno if its possible to have a qualifying session every two races (or every three for short races... that would be a nice compromise if possible... maybe times from the previous race could count towards it (I know this is probably not technically possible right now - just thinking out loud) that way folks who've just finished could use the quali session to take a break while recent joiners and folks who sat the race out could run a few laps to get a decent grid position...
This would also help in situations where the race is full - people might be more happy about giving up their spot if they weren't going to start at the back of the grid when rejoining...
Maybe give out license points for qualifying results that would be fun.
anyway, it would be interesting to hear if anyone else agrees, disagrees or has any other thoughts about race format
cheers
Col
Personally I would prefer the 'endurance' races to be a bit longer - also for the non - endurance races to be a bit longer on the 'pro' servers... maybe have a 'sprint' day
Am I correct in thinking that when there are more racers in the server, the number of laps is increased ?
If it is, I think it should be increased by more
It would also be nice on endurance day to have qualifying sessions - that way, you don't have to drive through many very long races to work your way towards the front of the grid (Thats one of the nice features about GPL - you look in the server list for a qualifying session with a few minutes left to go - run a good lap and you're starting on the grid alongside people who are at your level. I've always been amazed by how few LFS servers use qualifying).
It would be good when driving longer races to be able to take a break without losing your position on the grid - qualifying would give this option...
It would also help in those infuriating situations where you've spent three races working your way up the grid at south city only to be taken out in an accident and dumped to the back of the grid again.
I dunno if its possible to have a qualifying session every two races (or every three for short races... that would be a nice compromise if possible... maybe times from the previous race could count towards it (I know this is probably not technically possible right now - just thinking out loud
) that way folks who've just finished could use the quali session to take a break while recent joiners and folks who sat the race out could run a few laps to get a decent grid position...This would also help in situations where the race is full - people might be more happy about giving up their spot if they weren't going to start at the back of the grid when rejoining...
Maybe give out license points for qualifying results
that would be fun.anyway, it would be interesting to hear if anyone else agrees, disagrees or has any other thoughts about race format
cheers
Col
If you're starting at the back of a large grid in south city and you are faster than half of the cars in front, then pitting at the end of lap one is a very useful option.
cheers
Col
here's an twist:
"Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names may cause long lasting psychological damage, oh, and if you call me that again, I'll break your bones!"
now, where ma damn hong kong book of kung fu..
Last edited by col, .
Totally agree
The 50/50 comment is a good call as well, its happened to me once or twice when I've complained about an incident, gone and checked the replay, then had to go back and apologise to the driver because it was 50:50 (or worse :ashamed
Col
Or maybe they're a demonstration of the system not working !... this whole thread was started by me getting REALLY exasparated, and I WAS using the reporting system... unfortunately as we have discovered since, it wasn't working ! I wonder how many others were trying to file reports that weren't getting through... I guess you guys will find out soon if your inbox gets more reports now that they are via an e-mail address.
fwiw, I noticed that yesterday, the general standard seemed much better after the new messages at race starts... today it seemed to have dropped back a little
cheers and keep up the good work
Col
I think that this is part of the reason for the problem with _some_ FXO drivers - the FXOs get swamped by RB4s at the start (and to a lesser extent XRTs), so even if they are on row 1, they will be back in the pack usually by T1. If the only way to keep at the front is to drive unfairly, many will choose this path.
I have noticed that some of the really fast and experienced drivers will choose a different car depending on where their starting position is on the grid... sometimes for variety, but maybe sometimes its a strategy to help deal with the mayhem?.
For me by far the most annoying thing is drivers who know they have caused an incident, and even use their 'sorry' bind, but do not wait at a safe place to be re-passed....
hehe one time recently, I pulled up a guy about this - we'd had a good battle, me trying to pass for a few laps, eventually I made it through, and he shunts me in the next corner... so he fires on through... I catch him up again, but he keeps the lead and wins the race - Anyway I asked why he didn't wait for me to repass him, he said that he did wait - he slowed down... I guess I just took a little too long to re-pass him and lost my chance
I think way too many racers don't realise that there is a huge difference between
#1 Accidentally making contact so choosing not to pass, or waiting for re-pass.
and
#2 'Accidentally' making contact and using it as an opportunity to gain a place.
so many racers _seem_ to think #2 is acceptable as long as the contact wasn't intentional.
In reality, they will do what they can get away with - just like CTRA servers.... I guess with BTCC, the organizers feel that plenty of 'action' crashes aggression etc. is what the 'punters' come to see, so they will take a more relaxed view of over aggressive driving.
If the paying public wanted to see fair racing and less crazy idiot driving, then things would change damn quick after a few drivers lost their licences!
So what you really need is a mode where LFS hands all the race management over to 'IN-SIM'... Then you update your software to take over the task.
All the flags, messages, leaderboard etc. get switched off.
stuff like flags and monitoring num laps... lead lap, whos winning etc. has to be done from in-sim.
Scawen would have to add a few extras to in-sim - other than that I guess it depends on how easy it is for him to switch off the built in race control and have in-sim take over...
All the flags, messages, leaderboard etc. get switched off.
stuff like flags and monitoring num laps... lead lap, whos winning etc. has to be done from in-sim.
Scawen would have to add a few extras to in-sim - other than that I guess it depends on how easy it is for him to switch off the built in race control and have in-sim take over...
yep its the city courses, reverse particularly... more than one of the corners are fast in xrt if you use four wheel drift... often its as much about exiting with a better angle alowing earlier accelleration... I wouldn't do it if it was slow
I do it a little, but I watched Moose a while ago getting some really fast laps in with the tail hangin' loose
Hehe, very good point... no good saying "But I had overlap at turn in point" if you were still hard on the throttle
........
regarding fxo drivers
The issue here is not related to good drivers - _usually_ they wait for a fair passing opportunity then speed off into the distance
Its the guys who are a 1.5 - 2.5 secs off fast fxo pace... so they are running at a similar pace to the better xrt drivers...
What often happens is the fxo guy is generally 'over driving', braking too late and losing time (even while alone) - so he thinks he can easily outbrake the other cars when in fact he is running a bad line and breaking rules of corner rights.... if he still manages to lose the corner, the superiority of the car helps him catch up for another go in the next lap until he makes one of his 'moves' stick
(this often involves an 'accidental' tap)..........
What's this a recipé for ?
Stick a reasonably fast xrt behind two slower rb4s both battling for position, put an inexperienced but aggressive fxo driver behind the xrt mix well and add plenty of seasoning...
.........
There are other problems... on some tracks, fxo can take lines that are not possible in xrt... so a less experienced driver may think the xrt in front has slid wide or is 'all out of shape' and barge through...
Yesterday I had someone tell me after a race that I pulled a nice 90º drift 'but don't do it again' - that had me scratching my head because during that race, I don't remember getting that badly out of shape at all (other than when I was tagged)... in the next race I realised that the line I was taking and the style required to get the most out of my setup meant that to a less experiences driver used to FWD cars it might have looked like I was show drifting at a couple of corners
... unfortunatley some drivers seem to think that an xrt at an angle has lost it and its ok to barge through.cheers
Col
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG