What really bothers me is that if Eric truly had something to show, we'd have seen at least some part of it, sneak peaks or something. It's really weird, he doesn't seem to care in any way what people think of his work.
I've been thinking about just how complicated Scawen's work is with the tyre physics. I'd be interested in seeing the formulas inside the final product's code. Something tell me our mind would be quite blown.
It really makes you wonder just how realistic common games are, especially those who claim to be simulators (hello GT5). Such games being first of all products that must bring in money, I wouldn't be surprised if the same code has been used more than once, and deemed to be close enough to reality, or what people might want to actually play. In the end, I truly expect Scawen's tyre simulation to be the best of its kind, ever.
Try it for a moment. Imagine all the variables involved. Then think about the fact that not only Scawen must translate that to be computed, but it has to be made in real-time.
Mind: blown.
It really makes you wonder just how realistic common games are, especially those who claim to be simulators (hello GT5). Such games being first of all products that must bring in money, I wouldn't be surprised if the same code has been used more than once, and deemed to be close enough to reality, or what people might want to actually play. In the end, I truly expect Scawen's tyre simulation to be the best of its kind, ever.
Try it for a moment. Imagine all the variables involved. Then think about the fact that not only Scawen must translate that to be computed, but it has to be made in real-time.
Mind: blown.
Good report.
Bloody hell, tyre physics is complicated.
Bloody hell, tyre physics is complicated.
So that means Eric has only reproduced one track (not designed) and allegedly finish car interiors in what... more than two years? And only posted a few pictures of the former? That's good PR? That's creating a thrill? Nope, it's creating anger.
I don't get the whole "I don't have to report to anyone" thing. Eric works slowly, period. Besides, why doesn't he want to show us his work? Shouldn't he be eager to post his progress, or finished stuff online so that we can be in awe?
Prove me wrong, Eric! Prove. Me. Wrong.
I don't think he did. Also, he didn't say he'd release the tire improvements individually, before working (or finishing work) on the rest.
"remaining development" to me mean "development before it's ready to release"
That's the great question, but it is partly understandable. That is, the physics part. This is pretty much a guess here, but I believe this stuff is far more complex than it seems at first. It's just a tire touching the ground, but there's so much going on there. Besides, we know that Scawen's not only doing the tires, he's working on other stuff as well.
The part that's annoying as hell is pretty much everything concerning graphics, where I feel work could be done faster by a snail randomly moving across a keyboard.
Last edited by boosterfire, .
You know what, I think our exchange here is kind of an eye-opener for someone who might read it...
It's true that we can speculate, we can guess, but at the end of the day, there's no hard evidence (let's call my stuff soft evidence, or evidence from speculation) of what's really happening in Scavier's world. That's always been a problem, and remains to this day probably a reason why at least some people left (for instance, not seeing an update in years when arriving on the main website, that kind of stuff which scares people away, thinking it's a dead game anyway).
Define evidence.
Why would evidence necessarily be a post from Scawen? Can't we just look at the present situation and draw obvious conclusions from it? Yes, we can.
I said that S3 would have been released earlier had Scavier given a damn about the number of people playing the game, and proceeded to say that Scavier probably care up to a certain level how many people buy the game (as it's their source of revenue), but that had the financial situation been bad enough for them, they'd probably have released an update already (car interiors, stuff like that which doesn't require big coding) in order to calm the community.
This is speculation, but it is made from facts. We can indeed see that:
- That Scavier hasn't released an update already;
- That Scavier has never said they cared how many people played the game;
- That Scavier aren't in a bad enough financial situation to take desperate action.
This is where I draw my conclusions from. I don't just make this stuff up, I think about it first.
Yes, and I understand that.
I said: "Basically, Scavier doesn't care if people play the game or not, and we also know that Scavier like work well done, so they're not going to release unfinished work. It'll take the time it will take. People will leave and people will join."
I'm saying the same thing as you, I just don't understand why you said: "I think your talking bollocks to be honest, you have no evidence to suggest that anything you are saying is true", as if you were suggesting I was proposing to get S3 out earlier, while I was just saying it would have been done had Scawen actually cared about such things as number of people buying and playing the game, as opposed to the quality of his work.
Go read my post again, please.
Hint: However, if it had been such a big issue, S3 would have been rushed out in some kind of way to get people to buy it earlier.
Do note the verb tense.
I'll be blunt. At no point in time did Scavier show that it cares how many people play the game. They probably care up to a certain level how many people BUY the game. However, if it had been such a big issue, S3 would have been rushed out in some kind of way to get people to buy it earlier.
Basically, Scavier doesn't care if people play the game or not, and we also know that Scavier like work well done, so they're not going to release unfinished work. It'll take the time it will take. People will leave and people will join.
edit: btw, I understand the point of this thread is to funnel every questions about this subject in here, but wouldn't it be better just to close this and post an announcement saying something like: "x work is in progress, we know it's taking time, we want it to be very good; don't expect too many information until a patch comes, kthxbai"
Basically, Scavier doesn't care if people play the game or not, and we also know that Scavier like work well done, so they're not going to release unfinished work. It'll take the time it will take. People will leave and people will join.
edit: btw, I understand the point of this thread is to funnel every questions about this subject in here, but wouldn't it be better just to close this and post an announcement saying something like: "x work is in progress, we know it's taking time, we want it to be very good; don't expect too many information until a patch comes, kthxbai"
Last edited by boosterfire, .
Guys, I'm the first saying that I don't agree with Scaviers work techniques, but it's their own, and by now I thought it was pretty clear to everyone.
Scawen will release updates when he feels they're ready, and he may or may not speak about his progress while he's working on it. But he's working on it. There's been no indication that he's ever even considered stopping LFS.
Yes, from our end it seems pretty slow, or even completely stopped, but that's only because he doesn't feel the need of writing reports which I believe he feels would be useless and redundant (there's only so many ways you can say "I'm working on that stuff").
Scawen will release updates when he feels they're ready, and he may or may not speak about his progress while he's working on it. But he's working on it. There's been no indication that he's ever even considered stopping LFS.
Yes, from our end it seems pretty slow, or even completely stopped, but that's only because he doesn't feel the need of writing reports which I believe he feels would be useless and redundant (there's only so many ways you can say "I'm working on that stuff").
I wonder if Scawen gets some help from specialists about the whole physic calculation of this, or if he does this all alone. I mean, getting a tyre simulation to be perfect sounds close to impossible, and probably involves so much factors. 
Also, if he succeeds in this tyre simulation, I wonder if it could have other uses else than LFS. I'm sure that stuff could be useful to some people.
Also, if he succeeds in this tyre simulation, I wonder if it could have other uses else than LFS. I'm sure that stuff could be useful to some people.
Actually, you don't really need a driver for your monitor, assuming you know the correct way to use it. For instance, I use a generic P&P driver for my Asus monitor, and it works just fine (I don't think there's even a driver that exists). Of course, if a monitor has special features, such as audio, a webcam and so on, odds are it'll require the driver.
I understand the point of your metaphor, but the problem here is that there is no prospect of "getting there" in any sort of way. The donkey only sees endless landscape ahead.
And all that while the gods Scavier could provide a map (or at least an idea of what's ahead and what's behind by now).
Wait, what?
Why do you people always say this? "Get a license or I'll close my ears and sing shout so that I don't hear you"?
magicaldog's interrogation in this thread is that he doesn't get a good sense of speed, and that has nothing to do with being in the demo or in the full version.
This has all been pointed out before. It's obvious that LFS would develop faster and gain from being developed by more than one person, however Scawen works the way he wants.
This is his project, and he works on it the way he wants to.
I think that most people here would agree that good, mature (aka not the "bloom is drool" policy) directx11 level graphics would be a good thing for LFS. Why wouldn't it be? It's just a matter of feasibility.
This has been talked about over and over again... even when the current graphics were rather new, some people were complaining. Doesn't change the fact that Scawen works alone, and has a very specific list of priorities that none of us here have every influenced.
This has been talked about over and over again... even when the current graphics were rather new, some people were complaining. Doesn't change the fact that Scawen works alone, and has a very specific list of priorities that none of us here have every influenced.
For some reason I look at these forums every single day. I really hope, every day, that when I load this page up I'll see something new, but it's always the same.
This topic feels a lot like a place where people can... share their wait. Or perhaps is it a place where they can let go of their hopes?
I don't even bother trying to decipher Scawen's methods anymore. I just load the page up and hope. I still do, because I know Scawen won't stop. I know he won't, he's doing this for himself. Not for any of us. Scawen has been working on his game all this time, and nobody's going to stop him from completing it, not even time.
To me, Scawen is the most unusual developer. In a usual corporation, he'd be the guy nobody would ever hear about, but that would come up with a few genius ideas every once in a while. The hidden key to great success. To be honest, I think his skills at what he does are awesome, but his managing skills are lacking, abysmally so. This is what you end up with...
This topic feels a lot like a place where people can... share their wait. Or perhaps is it a place where they can let go of their hopes?
I don't even bother trying to decipher Scawen's methods anymore. I just load the page up and hope. I still do, because I know Scawen won't stop. I know he won't, he's doing this for himself. Not for any of us. Scawen has been working on his game all this time, and nobody's going to stop him from completing it, not even time.
To me, Scawen is the most unusual developer. In a usual corporation, he'd be the guy nobody would ever hear about, but that would come up with a few genius ideas every once in a while. The hidden key to great success. To be honest, I think his skills at what he does are awesome, but his managing skills are lacking, abysmally so. This is what you end up with...
Yes, and no...
Most of us aren't really have difficulties running LFS, and if someone is having difficulties it's probably because their computer isn't up to par with 5 years ago standards.
By all means, multicore support is good, but the new physics would have to be insanely hard to calculate to warrant the need of having multicore support. Odds of that being the case? Probably not very high.
Well, at least WoW sure gets a lot more attention from its developers...
The question is: what would LFS be like today if it had had a team like Blizzard's working on it from the start?
The question is: what would LFS be like today if it had had a team like Blizzard's working on it from the start?
There's never really been a reason to talk about much, but how depressing would be an empty forum?
I'd rather have a forums full of people that ask the same question (when is it coming) over and over again than an empty forum with a user base who doesn't give a crap what you release. At least it shows a certain level of eagerness.
If I may...
I think there's really no question here that LFS' graphics aren't the best. Even back a few years, it was pretty easy to get well over a hundred FPS in this game. So, I'd say LFS could definitely use a graphics update.
However, keep the following in mind:
First, even if running LFS is a piece of cake job for computers that are in any sort of way recent (keep in mind: recent in the computing world), I wouldn't say LFS graphics are annoying to look at. Sure there is tons of improvements that could be made, but if I'm driving past a quite boxy tree, my reflex isn't to ponder about the ugliness of that tree until I pass it again on the next lap. I just go along accepting the graphics the way they are. I'm confident I'm not alone to feel like this.
Second, and this has been said time and time again, the amount of work involved in a graphical overhaul for LFS would be not only immense, but would be a major obstacle in keeping Scawen focused as much as he can be on his current projects. The problem is that for LFS to be majorly improved in terms of graphics, a new engine would probably be required, and Scawen would need to code that (somehow I don't have the feeling he'd get it from somewhere else). People have been improving the textures for years, and while the results are far greater than what we had in 2003, it's simply impossible to bridge certain technological gaps with only texture work. Technologies have evolved, and you will simply not get the same result in a 2000 era directx9 graphics engine as you will in a 2010 era directx11 one.
Finally, another hurdle in the way of a graphics overhaul would be the amount of work involved for Eric, which I guess would also be immense, and we know that would take a long time.
I think there's really no question here that LFS' graphics aren't the best. Even back a few years, it was pretty easy to get well over a hundred FPS in this game. So, I'd say LFS could definitely use a graphics update.
However, keep the following in mind:
First, even if running LFS is a piece of cake job for computers that are in any sort of way recent (keep in mind: recent in the computing world), I wouldn't say LFS graphics are annoying to look at. Sure there is tons of improvements that could be made, but if I'm driving past a quite boxy tree, my reflex isn't to ponder about the ugliness of that tree until I pass it again on the next lap. I just go along accepting the graphics the way they are. I'm confident I'm not alone to feel like this.
Second, and this has been said time and time again, the amount of work involved in a graphical overhaul for LFS would be not only immense, but would be a major obstacle in keeping Scawen focused as much as he can be on his current projects. The problem is that for LFS to be majorly improved in terms of graphics, a new engine would probably be required, and Scawen would need to code that (somehow I don't have the feeling he'd get it from somewhere else). People have been improving the textures for years, and while the results are far greater than what we had in 2003, it's simply impossible to bridge certain technological gaps with only texture work. Technologies have evolved, and you will simply not get the same result in a 2000 era directx9 graphics engine as you will in a 2010 era directx11 one.
Finally, another hurdle in the way of a graphics overhaul would be the amount of work involved for Eric, which I guess would also be immense, and we know that would take a long time.
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