I'm an intelligent, native english speaker, and I still only have half a clue what the point of the thread is...

avoiding a draft isn't exactly blocking though, as the other car is much further back, so it gets a little grey there to my mind.

does different labels on the cars in the selection screen really make so much difference? The cars we have are already far more real than any of the games that have the right labels...

changing one thing to fix something unrelated is not the way to do a good sim
But I think it's got a lot to do with tyres as well - all the cars exhibit very soft transitions into and out of a slide.

Crowe, you can find out about the aussie side of things at the ARSE forums
http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/

The AAL is the major australian league, http://www.australasianleague.com/
MNR is a more relaxed sprint format I'm also involved in, check the forums on http://www.ozbee-r.com/

Other events get posted on the ARSE forums too.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Also bear in mind that part of the problem is the wings. Right now they work at the speed the car is going, even if it's doing it sideways. Thus at 180mph you have the same downforce sideways as you do going forwards. But a real F1 car is much more yaw (and pitch) sensitive, so any yaw massively reduces the tyre grip - maybe it's more this than the tyres being 'wrong' or too forgiving. Also the underbody ground effect isn't modelled completely, so the car won't lose downforce as it bottoms out or goes too high. Combine the two and I'm pretty certain it'll be a much harder beast to control.

Maybe for now just put S2Q tyres on it

I asked about this a few days ago, someone tested and said downforce drops to 0 when sideways...

with 3 screens you could angle them around you somewhat

Al, the problem that has been fixed seems more related to the seperation of lateral and longitudinal forces - when this was wrong the cars would slide too easily under throttle, this is great now. But the 'sliding' and 'static' type friction differences that are what Dave is talking about don't seem to have changed much. The tyres seem to bite a little harder, but still quite 'gently' compared to real cars.

have you been racing rfactor in the same style as lfs, just turn up and play, or organised leagues?

is the lx4 really as slow as tbo???

no, you're missing the point. I agree that the 'normal' driving aspects feel pretty damn good, requires care to balance it well for fast times. I also see Dethred's point that slide correction isn't violent enough, tyres tend to stop sliding gently instead of suddenly. Don't see why he makes such a big fuss about it, the racing is still fantastic, and the right things still have to be done for fast times, but it does seem like a fair point.

a few deep breaths and calm thoughts wouldn't go astray either

the dynamics are definately much improved... it probably feels a little easy because the 'bad physics' that made it hard before are improved, but the 'bad physics' that make it easy to control are still around. As far as I can see anyway.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Driving a real car on the limit is not difficult. If you have experienced it, you can do it again, in another car and on another track is just a matter of a bit of top up practice.

Dethred is talking about going over the limit. Some cars this is very straightforward, others can bite fairly hard. Every car in LFS is very easy to regather after a slide, the mrt is probably the most challenging.

respect only goes so far, shutting the door on someone trying to stick their nose up the inside unfairly is perfectly fair Otherwise all you'd have to do to pass would be to barge in with no talent and wait for the other driver to 'respect' you...

I think your point / request is very valid, just your topic title was confusing
The patch was a big step in the right direction, but didn't seem to greatly affect either the 'sudden loss' or 'sudden gain' of traction, the cars do still float around, but at least now the lateral and longitudinal forces feel suitably seperated, meaning the cars respond 'correctly', (for a given value of correct anyway) just not violently enough. It would be nice to find myself fishtailing on occasion, trying to correct from a corner gone wrong, but it's always very easy to catch because the tyres don't bite in hard at all.

I don't know if anyone ever really anticipated we'd be able to run perfectly normal setups and have it behave as expected... but imho, being able to run a slightly less than normal setup, and have it actually behave a lot closer to 'normal' (as opposed to before, where 'normal' behaviour just didn't happen) is a huge improvement.

Last edited by Blowtus, Sat 22 Apr 2006, 10:16.

should have thought of forces view! Ok. Well that's kind of good to know it's implemented, but leaves me wondering why it doesn't spin as easy once out of shape as real f1's

higher cornering speed? I was comfortably lapping blgp in the 1:24's in xrt before, stuggled to get under 1:26 during brief testing last night... felt like I was down a few kph each corner.

I agree, car setup seems to be a factor influencing a lot of this discussion.

I also agree with the point that a fast spinning wheel doesn't lose traction enough. Sort of like the slip / traction curve levels out at some early point, when it should still be going sharply down.

The rwds exhibit far more normal cornering behaviour when set with a fairly neutral setup to me now - throttle on understeer, have to get a bit vigorous to shake the rear end loose. Previously I was unable to make the xrt drive at all like my rx7, my sets now feel pretty close. Tyres search for traction when slipping, rather than just floating around. All very good. Still doesn't feel like enough of a bite when correcting a slide, but part of this 'may' be to do with the lack of real forces being applied to my body

Anyone got the ability to run some sort of test with output data and see if the downwards force on the tyres decreases when you send the bf1 into a big smoking sideways slide? Or have the devs said anything related to this? I'm just wondering as it kind of feels like downforce stays constant no matter which way the car faces to the direction of travel.

the fact that people can point to specific instances of 'f1 drifting' would seem to imply it's not particularly commonplace Seems much more normal to see a spin, whereas in lfs it's more normal (for me) to pull off a big slide and recover.
I love the game, and this doesn't particularly worry me, but it is a fair point imho.

seems like a stupidly inflammatory post, but I agree that I was hoping for more out of the bf1. The tyres still exhibit the characteristic lfs float without bite, though there is definately 'more' bite now.

Quote from hammer it :

Yea I cant see that either. I got yelled at the other day because I was faster than the leader. I got taken out and after pitting I caught the leader. Even though I was faster but one lap down, I got yelled at and threatened so I just said... bite me and found somewhere else to race. If I were the leader I would have just said ... come on! and did some drafting with the guy if I could keep up.

challenging to pass when you're a lap down just isn't cool, generally...

Quote from BrainBT :

I think that as real WR are beaten with better machines, actual LFS WR's should be beaten "naturally", no need to reset.

I think you haven't thought enough about it The cars aren't getting upgrades to make them faster, the physics are getting upgrades to make them more realistic. How much fun would it be for hotlappers if they're unable to come within 3 seconds of the wr for all lfs releases in future, because a few goons don't want their current hotlaps wiped?
The current hotlaps will be from a different game, and irrelevant...