Quote from axus :

Really nice piece of work... how difficult would it be to have a motor in there thtat would provide force feedback? Surely you can link it up to LFS with OutSim - if not through anything else (not sure if OutSim gives wheel speed so you can compare it to car speed), then through acceleration. If you lock your wheels and acceleration drops then the pedal puts a force against your foot... or do you feel that it is already realistic enough?

I'll look through all the parts and see if I can get my hands on them in South Africa and for how much. Thanks for the info!

Outsim doesn't give enough info at the moment... but may in the future maybe we should just make one then request support for it then lfs would be at the forfront in that area also

Also our brains are able to make more precise adjustments with applied pressure rather than positioning the travel type brake pedals i.e. much easier to be more consistent on each lap... what would be really awsome though is ffb through the brake pedal but have to wait awhile for that one I guess...

Last edited by B2B@300, Wed, 11 Jan 2006 01:58.

Quote from WGooden :

Yeah we had some great races on the preset and layouts modoff posted, hopefully more people can come at a certain time so we can have some fun.

Just too give myself something impossible to shoot for what times are you and Modoff getting

Interesting people have mentioned recently that when you look left or right the rendering in the mirrors stops? don't know if that is a fact or not but if it is then several people are experiencing a dramatic increase in frame rate (more than would be expected ie 2x) by disabling mirrors or looking left/ right with the ATI cards and DualCore CPUs, hopefully we are getting closer to the problem... do you other guys that experienced the fps drop find this the case also?

As I stated earlier in this thread I currently find that LFS runs better on my system (stable) with the lfs.exe afinity set to cpu1 and its priority set to system process (highest) so would be interesting if anyone with an ati card can see if this helps the situation at all

Quote from Scawen :

der_jackal and Qurpiz : you are the only ones so far with non-Intel CPU who are reporting the same problem, so that's interesting.

der_jackal : AMD64x2 4800+
Qurpiz : 3200+ (2,2ghz) Athlon

Do these processors have a similar feature to Hyper-Threading - perhaps under a different name? AMD64x2 : is this actually two separate processors, or a single HT processor?

From AMD's FAQ section:

Q:Does the AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core processor design have two AMD Athlon 64 processors on a single die?
A:Yes. The AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core processor design is true dual-core - with two CPU cores on one die. AMD’s dual-core architecture relies on advanced Direct Connect Architecture to supply each core with the memory and I/O bandwidth needed to maintain high performance per core. AMD’s on-chip integrated memory controller ensures that both cores have optimal access to the integrated memory controller and integrated HyperTransport™ links, so that performance scales well with the number of cores.

They also have something called HyperTransport technology which I don't think is the same as HT for intel they probably just named it similar for maketing purposes...

Having said that the current generation of P4's which are the P4D range are also true dual core processors, a quote from there sales guff "Intel® Pentium® D processor is Intel’s preferred desktop
processor. Because it is powered by two execution cores in one processor"

I'm curently running with an P4D 840 3.2 but unfortunately have an nvidia card so can't see if it affects the ati cards the same as the old P4 technology... is it possible it's not about HT at all but the way dual core processors (virtual or not) organise thread processes?

It is also apparent that Intel is using the same or at least a modified version of there HT technology on the new dual core processors they offer...

Last edited by B2B@300, Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:18.

I have the luxury of having the look function mapped to the second joystick on my xbox controller which is great, but even with that I find Kegetys unofficial addon http://koti.mbnet.fi/kegetys/lfs/pitspotter11b.zip invaluable in close racing, and well worth a try

I would guess its a combination of many things (most have been mentioned here) from the over elastic collisions (not enough energy is disipated on impact?), the way the physics engine operates to the highly tuneable setups we can have (which enables us to have setups perhaps not possible on similar cars in RL?) but I think that the setups we tend to go with and the fact that we as virtual drivers will go to the edge without any fear as real life drivers have is much of the reason for these flipping occurances

I'm reminded of a particular qualification session at Bathurst with the V8Supercars and a driver named Greg Murphy... In one particular year he did an absolutely awsome lap about 1 sec faster than any of his competitors in a class of racing where 100th of a sec is alot (he got a standing ovation from the whole pit lane) and I put it down just too his pure GUTS (or stupidity ) to drive at the very edge for the entire lap, his car was on 2 wheels quite alot on that lap I think we as virtual drivers drive much closer to the ragged edge than we probably would in RL...

Just be interested to know if assigning the lfs.exe process in task manager to 1 virtual processor would help the fps? I would try this myself but my old machine (P4 2.6 HT and ATI 9600Pro) is at my wifes work place now... and I want be able to test it until sat or sun... it's just this has been brought up before in regards to HT processors and poor LFS performance, so would be interesting to see...
I personaly even on my new machine (has nvidia card now) still set the lfs.exe process to 1 cpu and set its priority level higher than normal, it seems to help in terms of stability

Your no dought not alone in what you are thinking... but while wheel setup and car setup are important, it probably only accounts for a small part (say 20 -30% or less) of the speed the fast guys get compared to the average - the rest is driving skill, which can only come through alot of experience and maybe even some coaching from an experience driver it takes the average driver six or more months of regular driving to become "fast" which is what makes it so rewarding for most of us (some exceptional drivers develop quicker) and there's always room for improvement, which is why I still am here nearly 2 years later

I encourage you to keep at it, you will improve... all of us get to points of frustration where we feel like we can't get better, but with persistence you will find that you get through that dry spell and start to improve again from my experience improvements in ability seem to come in bursts rather than be gradual and continual...

I suggest you search the forums for the recomended settings for your wheel (many topics on this) and find a setup your comfortable with and then its down to practise and learning the art of racing (ie studying racing lines, learning trail braking, and other techniques)

[Edit] You actually need only a suprisingly small amount of lock to race with, as little as 9deg, so if your having dramas I serriously dought it's Lock related... the main keys to being fast is being smooth (ie not upsetting the balance of the car with quick steering movements or jabs at the throttle and brakes) to aid being smooth in LFS I recommend you go to your sound options and turn skid volume to max (3x) and then aim at all times to keep skidding to an absolute minimum, while driving near or at the limit ... If you watch replays of wr laps you will notice they have minimal wheel spin and skidding. I've read a quote recently about the secret of going fast something along the lines of "you should aim for the minimal input changes required to get arround the track, the less you have to do the less opportunity there is for error" and "a car will go the quickest when we move slowly" and he went on to say that when he is observing novice drivers he is always amused to see them "trying to go fast" with more aggressive behaviour behind the wheel, like braking abruptly and fighting with the wheel trying to force the car to go faster. Being fast requires an intuition about driving at the limits of the traction circle and that requires alot of training, experience and skill, there's no short cuts for that, but that is what makes it a great sim [/edit]

Last edited by B2B@300, Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:27.

Quote from axus :

On his agenda it may be, however good information and research such as that link is always useful, and if he is linked to it rather than finding it himself it could save him some time.

Agreed with you there Axus but I don't think we can find too much more than he has already found as I'm sure he is able to do a google search like the rest of us (I came accross that site several weeks ago after a quick search also) but it's not a waste as it educates us and makes the average pleb appreciate just how difficult a task it is

The really good info that might be able to be obtained requires the handing over of some cash, which I'm sure the SEV have done in there quest for good information and reliable research as have many other developers of simulation games... not to mention LFS ties with the MRT and RAC

Scawen alluded some weeks ago that he was going to be coding a virtual test rig to analise tyre dynamics and my guess is he would be able to get some pretty reliable tyre data, so I'd think that this is already on his agenda amoung other things

Quote from Hankstar :

Long story short: there's a life outside my HDD and while I wait for new stuff to download, I go and live it.

Well said

In the mean time we still get to race online in what is already a great racing environment I've had a blast the last two days

Quote from mrodgers :

The racers are not really LFS's fault, but for LFS, I am unhappy with the tracks and cars. I'm kind of tired of them. I don't like the road cars and don't like the open wheelers. I'd like to see more cars, more selection in the GTR class and another racecar class as well like V8's or something. I know, I know, maybe when S3 is out. I would like to see that though. Same with the tracks. I'm not fond of S1 tracks and think the S2 tracks are great. But would like to see some more.

Thats because the new s2 tracks were built with the faster cars in mind and the s1 tracks siute the slower cars better... try the Lx4 on SO Town, the UF1 on FE Green, the FZ5 on WE1, or the MRT on SO Classic they can be fun combo's... You've just got to match the car you use to the track you race (i.e. don't race UF1 on AS Historic, or FO8 on FE Club )

Last edited by B2B@300, Tue, 3 Jan 2006 01:31.

Quote from ajp71 :

If I knew what was actually wrong with it/what to upgrade and tweak I would do something about it, unfortunatley I don't, I have recentley restored my PC for the second time, and installed all the latest drivers and I keep it clean of all background junk, all it has at start up is Windows stuff, Philips Soundcard program and the ATi Catalyst.

As Misko alluded to, if you are running Windows XP your system probably could do with more memory... in my old system I originaly had 512mb but had to upgrade to 1gb to get "Lockon Modern Air Combat" to run well. The extra memory helped everything else to.

Also even with the same graphics card chip as someone else doesn't mean you will get the same results as them, unfortunately not all card makers are equal, there can be quite a performance hit from a porely designed card - and price isn't always the indicative factor of the card being of good quality manufacturer or not

Quote from Bob Smith :

I run 75, I can't see as much of the car as I should be able to but it looks far more real to me that way. It actually looks like real cars on the screen rather a computer game (if that makes sense).

Im same as Bob have run my FOV at 68 for a year and half, the real solution is not increasing FOV as it distorts things, the ideal solution would be a three monitor setup or XGA projector, etc then a FOV of 120 deg wouldn't seem so distorted I'd guess

LOL soon we might be saying "to experience LFS as it should be, you need a wheel and pedal set and a surround vision/sound gaming setup

[Edit] and I'm a slow typist too [/edit]

Last edited by B2B@300, Mon, 2 Jan 2006 02:34.

Quote from ajp71 :

2.8 P4
128 mb Ati Raedon 9000
512 mb RAM

Ususually get 30+ (limited to 40), 10 is the lowest it can get on starts, usually I get a bit more, but 15 is still to low to be useable

My previous system was a P4 2.6 with Ati 9600Pro, it always gave 30 - 60 fps - current system is P4 3.2 Nvidia 6600GT get 80 -110 fps most times now.. so mostly you graphics card imo and an 9600Pro is alot better than 9000 so I think the fps you get is quite understandable...

Have to agree with mrodgers, further I would like to be able to block messages from individual drivers/host/system seperately (would be good for league races to, as I imagine you aren't allowed to chat but you cant have block on either because you need to recieve instructions from the race moderator) with these settings you could just choose to recieve messages from the host for example or on public servers just the racers and block host messages and system messages

If your talking about using throttle in your normal braking area - that would be mainly affecting the brake balance (front/rear) and wouldn't be used on all corners (more throttle increases front bias) and would depend on the setup also I would guess... (I dont use throotle during braking myself but have brake bias slightly more forward than most. Its an area I can work on though) Thats got the cogs turning though, I remember seeing the fastest guys keep the throttle on for a short time when they first apply the brakes, which makes sence as it would prevent the tail coming around and allow for heavier initial braking I guess (this is all in relation to RWD for FWD it would obviously be reversed)

Throttle in mid corner on the other hand definately helps with car balance (wieght shift front to back) and can enable quicker apex speeds when you execute it right - but again it depends on the corner, what the car is doing and the setup... (and again its an area that I need improving on)

I've read that in racing you should spend 90% of the time accelerating hard and 10% of the time braking hard (which doesn't leave much time for coasting through the appex or braking/accelerating gently ) The fastest guys I notice all brake hard for shorter than I, carry 10-15km/hr more into the corner (at initial turn in point) than me while trailbraking to the apex (only hitting the slowest speed (appex speed) for the briefest of moments) and then accelerate out of the corner while doing it all smoothly so as not to upset the balance of the car (I trail brake but tend too wash off slightly too much speed before initial turn in and I begin trailbraking, nervous type I guess , and consequently hit my desired appex speed too early and end up coasting through the corner losing precious 10ths) I've also noticed the aliens amoung the LFS community don't seem to treat corners as simply as I, hard to discribe what I mean by that, but it's like they treat many corners as having more than one apex...

Hm good thread though has got me keen to go do a few more laps

Last edited by B2B@300, Thu, 29 Dec 2005 23:56.

Quote from Hyperactive :

And if LFSW would store all fuel consumptions per laps, we could have a wr list of lowest consumptions

Slow down there m8 we have enough problems with people racing 24/7 to have most racers won and km etc now imagine a group of people all trying to get the most km from a tank of fuel Hey but on second thoughts the results would be interesting and drafting would be king you could do like cyclists and run as a team of 3 cars each taking turns to be the lead car LOL and you would have to find the optimum speed for fuel economy...

Quote from Goresh :

When you join a server, simply press F12, you'll see the ammount of fuel you'll need listed

hm how sure are you about that pressing F12 AFTER you finish a race tells you how much you used per lap, but it doesn't tell you when you first connect... and F12 can't help you at all if you just forget about your fuel altogether

Last edited by B2B@300, Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:09.

Quote from Racer Y :

LOL A better one would be to have a "check fuel" light come on as soon as the car runs out of gas. Have you ever had a clunker die on you and THEN the check engine light comes on?

that's a great suggestion and how about a simulation of the driver getting out and pouring another 5L of fuel in the tank like ajp71's avtar

But seriously the idea is not at all about optimum fuel loads, it's about making it more user friendly to the first time racers and people who change car track combo's regularly and can't keep track

Quote from AndroidXP :

We also really need a "notes" field for each setup!

I would agree with that, perhaps even a note field at the bottom of each setup screen, so the notes would be specific to those settings...

Last edited by B2B@300, Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:51.

Quote from nikimere :

But different driving styles have different fuel consuption so how is LFS goign to work out if you've got enough or not?

I wasn't suggesting it calculate the optimum fuel amount just that it would ensure you had enough incase you forget to set the fuel... quite often you may connect just for one quick race (quick race in my book is upto 20 laps :P) and if its not a track your familiar with you, you can get the fuel wrong and your one quick race ends up being abit shorter than you had wanted LOL

Quote from Bob Smith :

Just leave the tank 50% full/empty, I doubt you'll ever run out during a normal online race.

In some cases 50% will not cover 20laps on some tracks, and there are occassions where for example you have just jumped from a 5 lapper server to a 20 lapper server, the race is just about to start, and you think damn it, I'll just do one more race , but in your haste you forget about fuel... until the 3rd or 4th lap then you go oh shit!

Quote from tristancliffe :

And don't do it to people you want to keep as friends for long

LOL I always put in about 10 - 20% more than people tell me

Quote from Hankstar :

I'd like to be able to save fuel loads to particular setups.

Thats a good idea also

Last edited by B2B@300, Fri, 23 Dec 2005 01:27.

Just had a thought when reading another thread Often when racing on public servers you might jump into a race and have neglected to set fuel or are unfamiliar with the fuel load required for that track (done it myself on a couple of occassions and have seen many others do it )

What about when you first connect to a server a message pops up IF the current fuel load isn't enough to finish the laps set?

The message could ask you if you want to change your fuel load and suggest a conservative fuel load setting like 20% more than needed.
Maybe with an option in the options screen to turn this feature on/off.
This could be calculated by detecting the settings for laps and car/track combo settings from the server on connection.

Having a feature like this would save alot of questions when people enter an unfamilar server and probably more than a few disapointed peeps who just wanted one quick race (before they attend to some RL obligations ) only to have a mid race out of fuel frustration because they were in too much of a rush or they just plain forgot

Most experienced guys probably wouldn't find it too useful as they would already be familiar with most conditions (which is why I suggested you could turn off the feature) but for people new to the game or the weekend driver who isn't familiar with all tracks it could make the experience slightly more enjoyable (it's only a small thing, but many small things can make a big difference)

Last edited by B2B@300, Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:04.

Quote from Gabkicks :

i've probably ran out of gas near the last corner on the last lap of a few races at least 4 or 5 times.:hidesbehi then i beg somebody to push me across to the finnish.

LOL yeah I've pushed at least 4 or 5 people accross the finish normally after a longer race like 20 laps or more and they run out last couple of corners

Call me a fan boy if you like but I've had LFS awhile now and have entered into several threads about lack of people on at the times I'm on... but I could never say I don't get my fair share of great races online and I have more than got my money's worth out of this game and am positive I will continue to do so...