LOL...not I fan then I guess Alan :P TBH, I'd just like to try something else other than Club100 TKMs. I've driven what is fundamentally a decent race chassis in the form of the RedBull fleet of World Formula karts....just a shame they didn't have much power. Still impressive for a 4stroke, but trying an ICA or and ICC would be fun.
In all honesty I'm at the age now where I'm looking at going into proper racing. In the next couple of years I'll buy a Caterham and do the Academy then probably take it from there. In the meantime I'll continue with the BUKC. For £300 a year I get to race against people like James 'Jiggy' Gornall who was the youngest Formula TKM champ in 2001 and have team mates like Simon Pullan (Caterhams, British GT for Noble, Spa 24hrs TVR and '06 LeMans 24hrs for Pilbeam in LMP2) and Alex Morgan who was Welsh ICA vice champ and is now doing Formula Renault. IMO, it's actually better than Super1 as we're all on an even playingfield. I'm proud to say I've beaten Jiggy a couple of times now :P It also makes you realise how crap some of the guys are in certain race series'. There's a Formula BMW bloke who races from time to time and he's terrible! He's slow..and he crashes into everyone including himself! LOL Never has the expression 'All the gear and no idea' been more applicable!
In all honesty I'm at the age now where I'm looking at going into proper racing. In the next couple of years I'll buy a Caterham and do the Academy then probably take it from there. In the meantime I'll continue with the BUKC. For £300 a year I get to race against people like James 'Jiggy' Gornall who was the youngest Formula TKM champ in 2001 and have team mates like Simon Pullan (Caterhams, British GT for Noble, Spa 24hrs TVR and '06 LeMans 24hrs for Pilbeam in LMP2) and Alex Morgan who was Welsh ICA vice champ and is now doing Formula Renault. IMO, it's actually better than Super1 as we're all on an even playingfield. I'm proud to say I've beaten Jiggy a couple of times now :P It also makes you realise how crap some of the guys are in certain race series'. There's a Formula BMW bloke who races from time to time and he's terrible! He's slow..and he crashes into everyone including himself! LOL Never has the expression 'All the gear and no idea' been more applicable!
Not really sure what you're experience with karting is mate...but in any full race spec kart, if you contact someone it gets very nasty. I've seen people get flipped simply through a wheel touch and also from someone inducing a spin which caused a massive rollover for the guy in front and I've been punted off the track many times by people. Yes...you can get away with the odd nudge, but in generally if you have anything more than a tiny nudge it WILL end up with one or both people in the wall or off the track. A mate of mine who raced a season in British GT and has raced at LeMans twice has said to me that in rolling starts they are literally bumping the person behind, and regular contact is expected you certainly can't do this in karting.
If he get's tired I'll take over from him :P What 2 stroke his he running btw? If it's a Rotax and he'll take money for a couple of laps I'll be prepared to pay a reasonable amount. I've yet to drive a Rotax and I hear their pretty mind blowing
As in totally along side. In every race I've ever driven for real, or seen, if a driver is totally alongside....on the inside...then yes the person being overtaken should yield...or at least not take their normal line. There's nothing wrong with carrying on round the outside if you really want to risk running out of road, but just turning in on the person is really silly as it just causes an unecessary accident. If I'm being fairly overtaken up the inside then I'll concede the corner and try the old double back into the next corner
I think the majority of people turning in is down to them not looking. If you check your mirrors and realise that if someone is less than .3s behind you their very likely to try and overtake then it shouldn't happen.
I think the majority of people turning in is down to them not looking. If you check your mirrors and realise that if someone is less than .3s behind you their very likely to try and overtake then it shouldn't happen.
I've had a spate of people just religiously holding their line like Rosberg did today in the GP. I'm completely along side them into corners like the right hander after the straight at Blackwood and they just won't yield. It's not like I understeer into them or anything....just a textbook overtake and they blame it on me! I also had some idiot the other day who I overtook into the first corner at Blackwood...to be fair I outbraked myself a bit and ran wide and nudged him, but he tried to steer me off the road and when he spun he tried to vote me off saying I'd made him crash when I was accelerating.
I'm far from the cleanest of overtakers and I admit that I'm pretty ambitious when it comes to where I overtake (but then racing in a karting series with some really good drivers in...they expect it) but I certainly never punt people off on purpose. I think people just need to learn to conceed a corner and then take advantage of the overtakers compromised line. It works nearly every time IRL and online Many racers have some phobia to having a good battle over a number of laps and think that once that person is past there is no chance of getting them back.
I'm far from the cleanest of overtakers and I admit that I'm pretty ambitious when it comes to where I overtake (but then racing in a karting series with some really good drivers in...they expect it) but I certainly never punt people off on purpose. I think people just need to learn to conceed a corner and then take advantage of the overtakers compromised line. It works nearly every time IRL and online
Many racers have some phobia to having a good battle over a number of laps and think that once that person is past there is no chance of getting them back.I totally know what you mean when you talk about the acceleration. I remember laughing outloud in my helmet constantly for 3 laps the first time I drove one :P People who aren't karters scoff and smirk when I tell them that 2 stroke karts are fast, but in all honesty, the only car I've ever driven that felt the same was an Elise 111R.
I was amazed just how different a TKM was to the pros I'd only driven before. The throttle response was instant (resulting in some rather embarassing spins the first time) and they require so much more of a delicate touch than a Pro. You'll be pleased to know that you don't loose the ability to drive a Pro though :P They just seem insanely easy forever after! LOL
It's only now after 3 seasons of Club100 that I can honestly say I'm fully at home in a TKM and 'on the pace'. I've steadily improved by half a second every year until I was able to win my first race at Buckmore halfway through the season :P If you're anything like me....you'll get rapidly better just after you start driving them a lot....then you'll stop improving and it'll seem like you're never going to find the final few tenths. Then for some reason all of a sudden it starts to seem really easy and you can inexplicably go a hell of a lot faster
I was amazed just how different a TKM was to the pros I'd only driven before. The throttle response was instant (resulting in some rather embarassing spins the first time) and they require so much more of a delicate touch than a Pro. You'll be pleased to know that you don't loose the ability to drive a Pro though :P They just seem insanely easy forever after! LOL
It's only now after 3 seasons of Club100 that I can honestly say I'm fully at home in a TKM and 'on the pace'. I've steadily improved by half a second every year until I was able to win my first race at Buckmore halfway through the season :P If you're anything like me....you'll get rapidly better just after you start driving them a lot....then you'll stop improving and it'll seem like you're never going to find the final few tenths. Then for some reason all of a sudden it starts to seem really easy and you can inexplicably go a hell of a lot faster
Last edited by ArosaMike, .
You two got a telepathic link or something :P...Glad he's got it 
Have you got my cheque yet Tristan? Should arrive at your place soon as I sent it earlier in the week
I have lot's of girl-friends 
LOL. I don't have a girlfriend at the moment though Just taking my time!
LOL. I don't have a girlfriend at the moment though Just taking my time!Damn...so that's one less on our team then 
Yeah...sounds like a plan
I may not be at one of the days as I have work commitments Could be the Sat too, but we'll see. I'll PM you next week or something. I'm supposed to be going with the team, although I haven't done an aweful lot this year as I'm 'only' 2nd year. I have a few project possibilities lined up next year, so I should be more involved in it again (the level of involvement increases with each year).Greboth - Yeah....I remember that we have one at UCE now. If you want to get a team started at your Uni, just try and get 10-20 people interested and a member of staff and write a proposal to your head of dept. That's how ours got started, and as long as you all put in the hours it'll get the whole thing running
It's hard work, but lots of fun I personally wouldn't call it de-tuning as it's really just tuning the engine for a difference purpose :P
As I said though....max power is limited by the restrictor, so there is no point in going for high power as you can easily reach it. Therefore, the aim is to get as much torque as possible, so getting new cams made that are lower lift (so the opposite of VTEC if that makes sense) helps low and mid range torque. In an ideal world you'd want a totally flat, very high torque 'curve' from 0-14000rpm. This won't happen, but it's what we try and do.
Right...well I work on the Formula Student team at my university (University of Birmingham - UK) and more specifically the engine group.
With regards to wings...yes they are allowed, but it's very difficult to validate their usefullness. A BIG thing about the FSAE competition is you have to be able to tell the judges why you chose to do something a certain way. This usually means test data of some kind, or measurements that have been made. Proving wings are usefull is therefore very hard as it requires lots of expensive wind tunnel time and testing which is something very few FSAE teams have. Due to the low speeds you usually have to have very high angle wings which are heavy and produce a lot of drag. In the dry there is very little difference between a winged car and a non winged car. In the wet however, those with downforce are significantly quicker. What a few teams are starting to do now is to develop splitters and diffusers to help underbody flow. I personally think these are the nicest solution to downforce on an FSAE car.
Engine wise....we are hugely limited by the rules. A 20mm restrictor has to be placed BEHIND the throttle. This is the absolute worse case scenario when it comes to restrictors. Turbos are very difficult to add to this system as when the throttle is shut the turbo keeps spinning. It generates a huge vacuum in the air plenum and as we found out, tends to do things like suck the oil out of the bearings in the turbo. Normally the way round this is to have a huge air box which results in a large reservoir of air. In most motorsport where the restrictor is placed before the throttle(s) this is OK. However, when the restrictor is after the throttles you have all kinds of problems. If you have a a big airbox after the throttle, there are big issues with lag. If you imagine that every time the throttle is opened or closed the engine has to use all the air in the airbox first before the effect of the throttle is felt then you can see what I mean. Obviously maxiumum power and torque will increase slightly, due to the turbo, but at the expense of drivability. Because of the restrictor, max power is physically limited to around 80-90bhp and therefore torque becomes much more of a desirable characteristic. This is why there is an increasing move towards single cylinder endurance bike engines of a smaller capacity than the max 610cc. One paricular Honda engine we are looking at can be increased to 490cc with a power of maybe half the R6 engine but will have probably double the torque.
So...turbos are fun to do, and will give better bench results, but they're not that good in a FSAE car due to terrible throttle lag. There have been ways round it in the past, but the loop holes have been closed now. They included pourous airboxes and taking air from the crankcase breather last year
I think it was fairly obvious there was 'cheating' going on when some teams had engines producing more than the theoretical maximum!
With regards to wings...yes they are allowed, but it's very difficult to validate their usefullness. A BIG thing about the FSAE competition is you have to be able to tell the judges why you chose to do something a certain way. This usually means test data of some kind, or measurements that have been made. Proving wings are usefull is therefore very hard as it requires lots of expensive wind tunnel time and testing which is something very few FSAE teams have. Due to the low speeds you usually have to have very high angle wings which are heavy and produce a lot of drag. In the dry there is very little difference between a winged car and a non winged car. In the wet however, those with downforce are significantly quicker. What a few teams are starting to do now is to develop splitters and diffusers to help underbody flow. I personally think these are the nicest solution to downforce on an FSAE car.
Engine wise....we are hugely limited by the rules. A 20mm restrictor has to be placed BEHIND the throttle. This is the absolute worse case scenario when it comes to restrictors. Turbos are very difficult to add to this system as when the throttle is shut the turbo keeps spinning. It generates a huge vacuum in the air plenum and as we found out, tends to do things like suck the oil out of the bearings in the turbo. Normally the way round this is to have a huge air box which results in a large reservoir of air. In most motorsport where the restrictor is placed before the throttle(s) this is OK. However, when the restrictor is after the throttles you have all kinds of problems. If you have a a big airbox after the throttle, there are big issues with lag. If you imagine that every time the throttle is opened or closed the engine has to use all the air in the airbox first before the effect of the throttle is felt then you can see what I mean. Obviously maxiumum power and torque will increase slightly, due to the turbo, but at the expense of drivability. Because of the restrictor, max power is physically limited to around 80-90bhp and therefore torque becomes much more of a desirable characteristic. This is why there is an increasing move towards single cylinder endurance bike engines of a smaller capacity than the max 610cc. One paricular Honda engine we are looking at can be increased to 490cc with a power of maybe half the R6 engine but will have probably double the torque.
So...turbos are fun to do, and will give better bench results, but they're not that good in a FSAE car due to terrible throttle lag. There have been ways round it in the past, but the loop holes have been closed now. They included pourous airboxes and taking air from the crankcase breather last year
I think it was fairly obvious there was 'cheating' going on when some teams had engines producing more than the theoretical maximum!Mate..can you put me down as confirmed too. I'll get the cheque sent out in the next couple of days
Where's Liuzzi?! He was ex World Karing Champ beating Schumacher! IMO he's one of the best drivers on the grid.
To be fair a lot of touring car style racing is like that. Anyone here watch the first couple of seasons of the SEAT Cupra Championship? The problem with those things is you get a few really good drivers and then some who are complete pay per race people who are kind of good, but have no idea how to race anyone.
Anyone else notice the huge amount of grip that caused that one Civic to bouce of the road? He got it sidewise and the thing just started hopping on it's rear wheels. Not sure I've ever seen that in anything else other than a kart!
Anyone else notice the huge amount of grip that caused that one Civic to bouce of the road? He got it sidewise and the thing just started hopping on it's rear wheels. Not sure I've ever seen that in anything else other than a kart!
To get it cheap we always run in the 'off' season so it's usually cold or raining! LOL Fastest time this year (in Feb) was 45.24 in my race with me doing a 45.98. Should be a few tenths faster than that now as I improved from Warden Law onwards (with my 1st at Buckmore where I set the 4th fastest lap in the wet on slicks :P).
Yeah I know of Barnaby. His driving style is nuts buy fast. Sidways everywhere! He spun it in front of everyone at Buckmore though! Everyone cheered! Haha :P
Yeah I know of Barnaby. His driving style is nuts buy fast. Sidways everywhere! He spun it in front of everyone at Buckmore though! Everyone cheered! Haha :P
LOL...Club100 TKMs most definitely aren't flat out through it or the last corner either. A guy who raced with us last year who used to race Super1 tried the last corner and did a rather fantastic 360 and managed to *just* keep the thing firing and carry on! Haha. I think even he was quite surprised! Somone less experience also tried it and flipped his kart on the wood chippings!
Oh...incidently relating to Karting1. I tried to do a slide for the cameras at the end of the final at Cardiff but failed miserably! LOL I did a nice 180 to get into the pits though and got cheer from the crowd We'll have to get Alan to give us a demo. Klien did a great one into the hairpin
We'll have to get Alan to give us a demo. Klien did a great one into the hairpin They're actually pretty easy to drive IMO (but that could be because I'm used to them!). You can't really get much throttle oversteer unless it's a really fast corner. Hardest thing about them is the physical side of it. They weight a tonne compared to a race kart so you get pretty knackered in an endurance. Personally though, on a track like whilton you should be fine. Plenty of run off and it's big enough for it to feel similar to an indoor track power wise.
Ah what the hell...go on I'll come Will be interesting to see if I can get the Pros to go full throttle through the first two corners :P I'll sort out some kind of conformation tomorrow evening when I get a chance to find my chequebook and have finished earning the money to pay for it (2-9pm at Starbucks tomorrow :P) I'll probably just become a moving target for everyone to try and take off but what have I got to lose apart from my repuation and life! Haha.
Whilton is also my nearest MSA track so it'll only take me 40mins to get there
I'll come Will be interesting to see if I can get the Pros to go full throttle through the first two corners :P I'll sort out some kind of conformation tomorrow evening when I get a chance to find my chequebook and have finished earning the money to pay for it (2-9pm at Starbucks tomorrow :P) I'll probably just become a moving target for everyone to try and take off but what have I got to lose apart from my repuation and life! Haha.Whilton is also my nearest MSA track so it'll only take me 40mins to get there
Last edited by ArosaMike, .
Mate...what karts are you gonna use and is it on the arrive and drive circuit of the full MSA one? I love the full circuit and could do with a practice, cause I'm gonna do a Club100 endurance there on Sept 2nd
Could be persuaded to join you all if I can be part of the karting1 team LOL I'll bring my RedBull suit and everything Haha
Could be persuaded to join you all if I can be part of the karting1 team
LOL I'll bring my RedBull suit and everything HahaWasn't mine to stick things on
Yeah. Posted there yesterday or Tuesday I think...can't remember
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG