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All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
Quote from -NightFly- :+1, we have russia as a neighbour, we know what (s)he is...

All of you (Balts) know nothing about Russia except deceitful propaganda from your government who are puppets of the EU/USA. You've destroyed your economy. The bullying by Russia is your paranoia and source of income.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :Jeez...what are you smoking?

Suprisingly, Crimea was one of the most calm places during maidan protests for 3 months. The "force" scenario has been pushed by Putin's guys in Ukrainian government, but when they realized it isn't working and Yanukovich had to escape, suddenly (!) Crimea started to blow.

The vast majority of population of Ukraine was sick and tired of the self pronounced king and his family tearing the rest of the country apart.

The people that started the protest are not nazis, they want to live in a peaceful country and get decent money for their work. They are fed up with this bureaucracy and corruption shit. Period. If I want to live in my homeland and see it going forward is social standards and economics, than f*ck it, I am a nazi then. People were brought to the state when dying in a fight was the same as live on with this government.

Russia isn't interested in Neo-Nazi or right ultra state on its border.
New Ukrainian authorities are illegal. They are impostors.
We are interested in saving Ukrainians and Russians.
As you can see, this "peaceful" protestor is a gangster and ultra-nationalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZCTPeMsk0
Russia can't afford them to rule over country.
I wish you were a propper user with a propper voice, sadly many years of LFSForum'ing has taught me that you most likely are some other user which creates a new account to post on because either: 1: You are too affraight to stand up for you belifs and opinions on the known user account, or 2: You are banned and had to create a new account to post - chances are that the ban was for a reason.

If somehow both options above is wrong, I welcome you to this bitching hell named LFSForum. For the sake of not getting a heart attack, don't take much too serious, but if you do, prepare to be bombarded from every hold from the crapcannons.

I am not sure what to make of your posts, so I won't.
Some facts about Crimea from RT.com:
http://rt.com/news/crimea-facts-protests-politics-945/
Those being presented as facts, going back from 18th century to present time following todays context, should be checkable.
I have read some, not much, from RT before and have not come across biased reporting. It's worth checking out, at minimum as a counter balance to the 'giants'.
Someone posted this in the comments on advance.hr: http://www.ef-magazin.de/ which appears to be worth a check if you're friendly with german language. Mighty looking impressum if anything.

Following alternative news sources will be overwhelming at first, clouded in suspicion and conspiracy flavor, discouraging further self informing. Good thing is you will be bumping into those more often then not, stuff will naturally build up, forming little by little your attitude towards things. Most important is thinking for yourself, observe who is telling what, how is it being told. Presence of checkable facts presented in a calm, nice chronological way is a good sign. On the other hand, stuff presented as facts, in a loud manner, without context is a very bad sign.
I also want to point out that opinions don't matter. For example: all the people of the world can have opinion about one matter but it takes only one argument to counter them all. In a high importance decision making processes your really want exclusively arguments.

@ Racer X
Been reading your posts some for some time and... you have to tell me how do you organize the stuff you bookmark. I have a couple of thousand sorted by couple dozen categories, sorted by date. But it just doesn't cut it, it is still an unorganized mess... I have lots of examples to show but not willing enough to spend hours to find the relevant ones, too damn lazy.
I guess I'm asking for your categories and sub-categories, if that's the case, which I could then apply to my own. But if your post are result of great patience, care and willingness to rummage through it all just to share info for us then I'm super-amazed!
RT.com has a pretty pro-Russian view, read its info with a little caution.

More good sources (collected over the last one and a half month by an international community) can be found here: http://www.reddit.com/r/euromaidan/


RT has a pretty much russian sided point of view, seen some news in past regarding to a russians living in estonia and their view was pretty twisted. From there on I can't take that news channel seriously...
... and we just had Ivan Radionov, chief editor of that channel, on the big Sunday talk show here in Germany, in the role of an "expert" on the situation. Apparently he tried to spread those RT.com facts to the German audience.

I didn't see it, but twitter is going mad about it
Can someone explain what's going on?

Russia is invading Ukraine because there are nazis in Ukraine??
Think about it like an elaborate game of tug-of-war.
Quote from Mustafur :Can someone explain what's going on?

Russia is invading Ukraine because there are nazis in Ukraine??

Long story short, Russia is trying to sieze the opportunity to take over Crimea and possibly other parts of the eastern Ukraine while the country is unstable after (or more likely during) a revolution. Russia's main motivation are their military bases on Crimea which they have leased from the former Ukraine government. The new Ukrainian gorvernment that is currently being formed would most likely not allow Russia to use those facilities anymore. Since the "new" Ukraine would likely be more EU oriented, it would become much less of a "buffer zone" between Russia and the west.

The situation is obviously much more complex than that.
lol friend just texted me asking if my towns harbour was closed for civilians too Apparently there is a (ridiculous) rumour going on on the net that combined NATO naval forces swarm out to German ports in preparation for whatever.

No, no naval forces her or anywhere where they're normally not
I know that nobody bothers reading my posts, but if you actually make the effort that will tell you why.

Tl;dr. Oil, bankers, Cold War, corporate game.

FYI, Freedom, Yeah Right !

If you don't understand the history of the region, have a new experience and do your own research and that will really help to explain what's going on. People think RT is biased, try the US media for brain dead commentry. Without any bias to either side, do learn about the last 500 plus years of regional history.

Oh, been told to add this..... Crazy Conspiracy Theorist, Put On Your Ignore List..............

The NSA will now tell you what you will believe.................

Crazy theory facts.
Actual facts, most of the Ukraine is Russian, navy has already gone over, most of the army has. That only leaves Kiev, and the US backed Nazi party. Yes, lots of people in Kiev wanted to go to Europe, important point though, most of the rest of the Ukraine is Russian. The coup was engineered by the US/Bankers (cough cough) , the evidence is in my earlier post.
Russia will not back down for historical reasons, please do your own research on this.

My thoughts, I don't expect the US to actually give it's promised support, neither I suspect does Putin. My expected outcome, Kiev splits, ends up owing huge amounts to the bankers, etc, etc. Crimea plus, goes with Russia. Owes nothing to the bankers, has the oil/gas, ports, manufacturing base.

And Kiev, China wants it's 3 billion US back ASAP .................
Check your own sources for this one.
Also, if you doubt the US influence, listen to Neulands leaked phone conversation, it's on Utube, and who did the US want in control, according to this conversation ?
I am an Ukranian and been user of this forum for a very long time.
I chose not to use my main nick simply because expressing own opinion on this matter, might result in a label, I do not want it.

Now, for the first time I actually agree with Racer X NZ, I never thought it would ever happen but since the issue is concerning me personally, I actually had occasion to experience things he write about first hand.

Currently I dont live in Ukraine but live in Europe, country you could call democratic and all that stuff.
When this whole thing began, I was amazed how biased media actually are.
I got to experience it first hand because, for the first time, conflict was happening so close to me and I was reading not only news in country I live in currently but also US news, so called "independent", Russian and Ukranian news hubs.

Since the very beginning media forgot to mention that its not about Euro Integration anymore but a fight against corruption and militia brutality.
In media here, it was always about people wanting to go to EU and bad oligarchs fighting against it.

They never showed or even talked about injured enforcers or even the fact that protestors are armed with molotovs or weapon.
They were always peaceful protestors and violent berkut.
When it was too hard to hide flaming berkut, they admitted there are "some radicals".
They forgot to mention that so called "peaceful protestors" attacking other people who are against euromaidan, they also forgot to mention there are any people against euromaidan at all.
According to media here, its unanimous, always been.

Also, when "Fck the EU" seen the light of day, media here made this sentence main point as well as "BAD RUSSIANS ARE SPYING ON EVERYONE" they never bring any attention to the fact that its not bad wording but US, deciding on the Ukranian new government.

EU and USA tied hands of the president and didnt allow him to deal with the situation, which escalated rather quickly.
Polish politics with their mesjah complex were here once again, they were here at the orange revolution, they were here during presidential election when Yanukovich was elected (they influenced outcome as well) and just as previously, when all was said and done, they left Ukranians to deal with the mess they left.

Media never made a point who is actually leading euromaidan, yes Klichko was an accessory, a face to show to the EU but who actually was leading it and who were the people there.
The euromaidan never listened to Klitchko and straight flipped of Timoshenko, Yaceniuk made a smart choice and put a lot of distance between them.
Its Yarosh and Tiahnybok that actually got all the support there.

Media never mentioned that Pravy Sektor threatened officials and forced them to sign resignations, how scared members of parliament started to pass retarded laws and how Pravy Sektor stated they were above them.
The political cleansing that went, how Muzychko with AK started to threaten officials and that he behaves like a loony.
There are actually too much to write on the issue but people who actually running Ukraine are fascists and neonazis and unfortunately its not an overreaction.
Everything that put euromaidan in negative light is conveniently omitted.

A lot of info is being manipulated via understatement, for example, there was an article that stated that Russians are censoring Ukranian sites (because Putin dont want russians to know they are being manipulated).
The funny thing they showed screen cap of a blocked site, they forgot to mention that this particular site was censored because Pravy Sektor used this site to ask Dokku Umarov to fight against Russia.
Dokku Umarov is a terrorist, is it really that weird that this site got blocked.

There is so much to write about current situation and manipulation in media that I dont even know where to begin.
Even now, there are protests against euromaidan or against current government but nothing makes it to the news here.

Media now in some kind of hysteria about Crimea when people at Crimea are actually pretty cool with the whole situation.
I mean they obviously dont want war but they are pretty cool with Russians being here and many people dont agree with media calling it an "aggression" or declaration of war.

And I agree, Yanukovich is not a good president but there are ways to deal with things in democratic manner, what happening now is nowhere democratic no matter what media say.
Russian media are trying to sway opinion (I think RT is actually pretty neutral) but US and EU media are far worse if you ask me.

Fun fact, in country I live currently, there are many news outlets with their own forums and stuff, you can swear and insult people in comments, but if you dare to comment on the current situation in a tone that is against what media are lobbying, your comment gets deleted, same thing if you post any source links.
They accusing Russian media of manipulation and censorship but they are not better.

Also, check operation named Urgent Fury, is it me or something looks similar.
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(dawesdust_12) DELETED by Scawen : spam
Quote from Racer X NZ :
Crazy theory facts.
Actual facts, most of the Ukraine is Russian, navy has already gone over, most of the army has. That only leaves Kiev, and the US backed Nazi party. Yes, lots of people in Kiev wanted to go to Europe, important point though, most of the rest of the Ukraine is Russian. The coup was engineered by the US/Bankers (cough cough) , the evidence is in my earlier post.
Russia will not back down for historical reasons, please do your own research on this.

Quite interesting to hear it from someone who lives on the other side of planet...
Quote from RussianLFSer :Russia isn't interested in Neo-Nazi or right ultra state on its border.
New Ukrainian authorities are illegal. They are impostors.
We are interested in saving Ukrainians and Russians.
As you can see, this "peaceful" protestor is a gangster and ultra-nationalist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVZCTPeMsk0
Russia can't afford them to rule over country.

Its rather stupid to move troops inside a country after all of the "action" ended, isn't it?

Go to Kiev for yourself and see "4th Neo-nazi reich" for yourself already, stop believing all that crap the internet and mass media are flooded.


As for the vid, he's an idiot and a clown, nothing more. As if you ain't got your own clowns.

I live in a mostly russian-speaking city, people are just fine in here, people want to leave in peace in their country. We can deal with our problem on our own, thanks
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
Go to Kiev for yourself and see "4th Neo-nazi reich" for yourself already, stop believing all that crap the internet and mass media are flooded.

What are you saying, some time ago Muzychko openly stated that he hates Ru ... he is going to fight them.
Yarosh openly claims at 1:55 Russia is our eternal enemy an ... kraine is not possible.

Just because they are idiots and clowns, doesnt mean its acceptable, this is the organization they are forming, how is this even acceptable?
And what about this. http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=49832
Thats certainly not some random crap that flooded internet.
Click on Порівняльна таблиця 22.02.2014
This is part they want to remove.
Quote :Стаття 436-1. Публічне заперечення чи виправдання злочинів фашизму, пропаганда неонацистської ідеології, виготовлення та (або) розповсюдження матеріалів, у яких виправдовуються злочини фашистів і їх прибічників

Публічне заперечення чи виправдання злочинів фашизму проти людяності, вчинених у роки Другої світової війни, зокрема злочинів, здійснених організацією "Вафен-СС", підпорядкованими їй структурами, тими, хто боровся проти антигітлерівської коаліції і співробітничав з фашистськими окупантами, а також пропаганда неонацистської ідеології, виготовлення та (або) розповсюдження матеріалів, у яких виправдовуються злочини фашистів і їх прибічників, -
карається штрафом від п’ятисот до тисячі неоподатковуваних мінімумів доходів громадян або обмеженням волі на строк до двох років, або позбавленням волі на той самий строк.

They want to remove punishment for denying or rationalizing crimes of fascism and propaganda of neo-nazism, especially crimes committed by Wafen SS and people under them.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
I live in a mostly russian-speaking city, people are just fine in here, people want to leave in peace in their country.

I lived in mostly Russian speaking city in Ukraine, when Yushchenko "outlawed" Russian, all of a sudden everything was in Ukranian and I had hard time finding myself in all of this.
When they finally recognized there are people speaking russian in Urkaine, this new govt made this.
http://www.forbes.ru/news/2512 ... yi-status-russkogo-yazyka
yeah, they are in damage control mode right now, seeing the reaction, but its shows pretty well who is actually in the govt.
Quote from Anonymous(almost) :
When they finally recognized there are people speaking russian in Urkaine, this new govt made this.
http://www.forbes.ru/news/2512 ... yi-status-russkogo-yazyka

The law that cancels the former language law has not been signed - means cancelled - so everything stays the same regarding language.

Whats posted on the internet is not always a solid fact, period.

Why people jump of the answers, Russia is making a mistake by pushing troops into Ukraine, because there are no aggression against any nation right now, people want a united wealthy country to leave in. There thousands of peaceful people on the streets, speaking both russian and ukrainian, but saying one thing: Ukraine is one solid country, regardless weather you are from west or east, south or north. We are all Ukrainians and we ant to live in peace. Politics tried to divide the country throughout the whole time of its independence to get voices on the elections.

We don't want war.

I'm not defending people from new government, they aren't much better than former ones, and some of their statements might be not so wise.

Come out of your house and look what you see. I saw 15k civil peaceful people stating "We don't need war. Ukraine is united." I see army trucks collecting young hot-heads into army.

And what do you see?
Quote from [RF]-art555 :The law that cancels the former language law has not been signed - means cancelled

This is what I meant by "damage control" the fact they even attempted it shows pretty well who is in gov.
Beside, the only reason it was cancelled its not because they think its wrong, its just caused such violent reaction (no wonder considering number of people who speak Russian in Ukraine) they decided its not worth digging themselves right from the start.
Thank you, pulls forelock...........

Actually, all my posts have the same level of investigation and knowledge. It's just that generally what I post is too OTT for people to cope with. I'm just pleased that my analysis in this case is confirmed as being accurate. Although, all my posts are in fact made with the best information that I have at the time of posting.

This situation has a huge potential for becoming very ugly, I'm personally relying on the US military to talk sense to the neocons, ie say 'no effing way can we do this' and rein back the idiots who want to turn this into a war.

It's actually their reaction to being stopped in Syria and Iran that, IMHO, has led to this action against Russia.

Just remember, never believe the media, unless you understand their goal. All media is the same, they all produce propaganda, the trick is to realise this and read it with that knowledge. Once you know this, you can get information from what's said, and what's not !

And FYI, NZ was at the tail end of joining the Russian free trade agreement that was offered to the Ukraine, so, despite being at the other side of the world, we were involved in this situation.
Quote from Anonymous(almost) :This is what I meant by "damage control" the fact they even attempted it shows pretty well who is in gov.
Beside, the only reason it was cancelled its not because they think its wrong, its just caused such violent reaction (no wonder considering number of people who speak Russian in Ukraine) they decided its not worth digging themselves right from the start.

Is there any need to compare how retarded some of the actions of former government was? They've set a edge of stupidness so high its probably never going to be beaten and not worth discussing.

P.S. I think I know you. Max?
just couple months ago i was swimming in the freezing waters of balaklava. hard to imagine whats going on there right now. anyway, crimea is full of russians, but russian army stormed crimea under false impressions. and maybe its going to ruin their international relationships, but it can also ruin EUs oil and gas supply.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
Why people jump of the answers, Russia is making a mistake by pushing troops into Ukraine

There is no saying how this new govt decide to treat agreement with Russian presence on Crimea, which was most likely the reason of this so called "invasion"
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
because there are no aggression against any nation right now, people want a united wealthy country to leave in.

Not gonna happen on the Ukraine any time soon.
You go with EU, its more perspectivistic but at the beginning, regular people are going into poverty.
You go with Russia, its more profitable at the start tho it pulls us away from EU and in long therm will not solve our problems.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
We don't want war.

Agree here, good news is, there wont be a war (I am 90% sure ), its just current govt trying to make a scene and scare Russia away.
With our military thats the only thing they can do, just be a small loud dog and hope the leash wont break.
Just read what people think about this "situation" www.facebook.com/andriy.parubiy/posts/667812769951576 I cant see them going fighting for those retards who are trying to set two nations against each other.
I mean screw this, lots of people have relatives in Russia, I dont think any one I know personally consider Russia an enemy.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :Is there any need to compare how retarded some of the actions of former government was?

There is no need to compare, except old govt was legitimate and I dont approve of methods used to overthrow it or current govt.
Quote from [RF]-art555 :
P.S. I think I know you. Max?

Nope.
Quote from Anonymous(almost) :the only thing they can do, just be a small loud dog and hope the leash wont break.
Just read what people think about this "situation" www.facebook.com/andriy.parubiy/posts/667812769951576 I cant see them going fighting for those retards who are trying to set two nations against each other.
I mean screw this, lots of people have relatives in Russia, I dont think any one I know personally consider Russia an enemy.

Exactly, brother-nations don't want that sh*t.

Quote :There is no need to compare, except old govt was legitimate and I don't approve of methods used to overthrow it or current govt.

Its legitimacy and what it achieved is very doubtful and worth a separate thread.

I do agree that choosing between EU and Russia is very risky and both won't bring no good, but at least EU has some future positive perspectives.

All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
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