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All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
Quote from Racer X NZ :
Good, but I think you may have missed a few.

No, I mentioned about: few. Three out of 26 in the new government.
It isn't even proportional to their involvement in Maidan - Parubiy was chief of security of Maidan which wasn't pacified by Berkut.

And about Berkut...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz7cqjiPtdY
It is not the hunting rifle in the boot.

And this is why Russian people in Crimea call "fascists" and will vote to separate from Ukraine, against those who weren't fought by armed Berkut. This is how they fear of the people that weren't fought by Berkut.

In fact it is hard to say what they vote for?

There is no such nation as Crims... Crimeans... Crimians...? There isn't and never was. There were Crimean Tatars, rellocated to Siberia by Stalin... and with this "referendum" they can loose their country for the second time... looks like to nation of Criminals.


...meanwhile... Russian fascist, Vladimir Zhirinovsky is winding up crowds in Ukraine http://indiatoday.intoday.in/s ... -sevastopol/1/346231.html He is VICEPRESIDENT of DUMA as leader of LDPR with 56 representatives (12%).
I wonder how on earth Poland with EU still didn't invade Koenigsberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad ? - we could easily prevent it from Russian fascism.
I'm noticing a certain level of 'bias' ?

The film of his 'rifle' was made at a Euromaidan checkpoint, filmed by euromaidan. Bit hard for that to be propoganda. Which is probably the reason its been fairly much under the radar. Certainly never reported by Western Media. GOSH, SHOCK HORROR !!!!!!

Remember, I personally have no preconceved view on any side. If it actually is a 'peoples movement' then great. The overwhelming evidence ( US spent 5 billion on this 'peoples revolution') suggests otherwise. The make up of the new 'govt' suggests otherwise. Listen to Nulands conversation about who will be the new Junta, especially, listen to Ashton and Paets conversation in full, Ashton is not surprised about Paets information, I wonder why ?
I certainly don't support the previous Ukraine govt, any more than I support the current junta that has seized power. I do think that you'll learn that 'the peoples choice' is a very long way down the list of priorities of those big states who are playing this game.

The Crimea was 'given' to the Ukraine in 53, surely they have the right to become Russian again.

And the refusal to accept a referendium by the people of the Crimea, is interesting.

Robert McCorquodale, professor of international law and human rights at the University of Nottingham, attempts to parse the legality of the situation, arguing that whether or not a declaration of independence or merging is valid in international law is determined both “by the actions of the state within whose borders the people live; and the responses of the international community.”

By these standards, he argues that while Crimea is well within its rights to hold an independence referendum, Russia had no legal right to intervene on Ukrainian territory given that there was no evidence that Ukraine was oppressing the region by force.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the ... dependence_movements.html

And, it's also interesting that the resources that the World Bank (IMF) wants are mainly in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.
And who run's the IMF ?
This is an academic answer, lots of reading sorry... http://www.asu.edu/courses/pos ... %20thw%20IMF%20+%20WB.pdf

Short answer, as this isn't touched by the media, read the long answer for a better source.
The World Bank - IMF is owned and controlled by NM Rothschild and 30 to 40 of the wealthiest people in the world.
Before Joe Stiglitz was fired he took a large stack of secret documents out of the World Bank. These secret documents from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund reveal that the IMF required nations:
1. to sign secret agreements of 111 items
2. in which they agreed to sell off their key assets - water, electric, gas, etc.
3. in which they agreed to take economic steps which are really devastating to the nations involved
4. in which they pay off the politicians billions of dollars to Swiss bank accounts to do this transfer of a countries fixed assets

If they do not agree to these steps they are cut-off from all international borrowing. Today if can't borrow money in the international marketplace, no one can survive, whether you are people or corporations or countries. If that does not work they overthrow the government and plant lies about the former government and/or even rewrite history.
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Government/IMF.htm

The IMF is funded with taxpayer money, yet it operates behind a veil of secrecy. Members of affected communities do not participate in designing loan packages. The IMF works with a select group of central bankers and finance ministers to make polices without input from other government agencies such as health, education and environment departments. The institution has resisted calls for public scrutiny and independent evaluation.

The IMF routinely pushes countries to deregulate financial systems. The removal of regulations that might limit speculation has greatly increased capital investment in developing country financial markets. More than $1.5 trillion crosses borders every day. Most of this capital is invested short-term, putting countries at the whim of financial speculators. The Mexican 1995 peso crisis was partly a result of these IMF policies. When the bubble popped, the IMF and US government stepped in to prop up interest and exchange rates, using taxpayer money to bail out Wall Street bankers.
http://www.globalexchange.org/resources/wbimf/oppose

This is the closest the mainstream media seems to get.

Most emerging economies have no more than a cursory interest in the IMF. Politely, they will send representatives to the organisation's meetings. But they do not see the organisation as theirs, nor even partially theirs. They do not trust it as a political forum within which to negotiate, nor as an institution that will establish and apply rules with an even hand.
http://www.theguardian.com/com ... /08/interestrates.banking

Here's the Wall St journals take on the situation.
Investors think Ukraine has severe liquidity problems, but in the long term its debt would be manageable.

"Based on the little information we have, a maturity extension by a few years would make more sense than a haircut on the price of existing debt," said Angus Halkett, portfolio manager at Stone Harbor Investment Partners, which has $62.3 billion under management in total.

"A rescheduling of the nearer maturities, such as 2014 and 2015, would be sensible for Ukraine. Of course this will anger Russia, as the 2015 bond they bought would have to be included too. But it makes sense. The country is not in a position to pay at the moment," said Viktor Szabo, a portfolio manager at Aberdeen Asset Management, which manages $320 billion.

"We're talking about a country which has suffered multiple stresses lately, but its debt levels are contained. Also, Ukraine is likely back in a bad recession, after all the disruptions of the past few months," he added. Ukraine's debt amounts to around 40% of annual gross domestic product. That ratio is half as high as Germany's.
http://online.wsj.com/news/art ... 4732804579421123474521510

This is actually informative, Global research who try to be factual. Worth a read, only I know most of you won't bother. Then you'll argue with me later about points already made here.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/t ... f-a-global-currency/13239
And if the vision of a global currency outside government control does not set off conspiracy theorists, putting the BIS in charge of it surely will. The BIS has been scandal-ridden ever since it was branded with pro-Nazi leanings in the 1930s. Founded in Basel, Switzerland, in 1930, the BIS has been called “the most exclusive, secretive, and powerful supranational club in the world.” Charles Higham wrote in his book Trading with the Enemy that by the late 1930s, the BIS had assumed an openly pro-Nazi bias, a theme that was expanded on in a BBC Timewatch film titled “Banking with Hitler” broadcast in 1998.2 In 1944, the American government backed a resolution at the Bretton-Woods Conference calling for the liquidation of the BIS, following Czech accusations that it was laundering gold stolen by the Nazis from occupied Europe; but the central bankers succeeded in quietly snuffing out the American resolution.

And

Dr. Quigley was Professor of History at Georgetown University, where he was President Bill Clinton’s mentor. He was also an insider, groomed by the powerful clique he called “the international bankers.” His credibility is heightened by the fact that he actually espoused their goals. He wrote:
“I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960′s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. . . . [I]n general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.”

I do believe I made a point earlier about Senator P BUSH being charged with working with the Nazi's ? No problem though, charges were dropped and his son and grandson went on to become US presidents. Hmmmmmmm

Yes, looney conspiracy bankers stuff, by rights I should be agreeing with the Junta now in power in the Ukraine, for all their neo nazi stuff they get close.............

I just find it amusing that they are now supporting all they hate.

Isn't history fun. :google:

And this is an interesting read, who do the Ukraine richlist people back...... ?
(When their not trying to avoid being arrested for their crimes. Move to the West guys......)
http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... re-they-which-side-are-on


tl:dr; f the people, it's all about the money.
26 paragraphs? TLDR
Quote from Racer X NZ :And the refusal to accept a referendium by the people of the Crimea, is interesting.

Robert McCorquodale, professor of international law and human rights at the University of Nottingham, attempts to parse the legality of the situation, arguing that whether or not a declaration of independence or merging is valid in international law is determined both “by the actions of the state within whose borders the people live; and the responses of the international community.”

By these standards, he argues that while Crimea is well within its rights to hold an independence referendum, Russia had no legal right to intervene on Ukrainian territory given that there was no evidence that Ukraine was oppressing the region by force.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the ... dependence_movements.html

By strict legal standards - it is illegal because it is against Ukraine's law.
By historical standards - as I told you, the only locals are Crimean Tatars. Crimean Russians historically are visitors.
By human rights legitimization - if Russia had no right to intervene due to lack of evidence of Ukrainian oppresion... then we can call what Crimea does with one word - traitors!
Quote :
Yes, looney conspiracy bankers stuff, by rights I should be agreeing with the Junta now in power in the Ukraine, for all their neo nazi stuff they get close.............

I just find it amusing that they are now supporting all they hate.

Isn't history fun. :google:

Not really.
I am coming from country which had in 89' $40 billion of foreign debt (unmaneagable, and followed by writting off), 4 digits inflation (out of control) and tax budget deficit (out of control). In such situation of scarce of everything the only thing country could sell was its future as promise of future growth to earn on. I don't know what you know about economy but scarce times means losses for investors. The only thing to earn is big scale bargain on equity wen you can profit a lot short-term.
Quote :
And this is an interesting read, who do the Ukraine richlist people back...... ?
(When their not trying to avoid being arrested for their crimes. Move to the West guys......)
http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... re-they-which-side-are-on

And here you can see the collapse of that short-term profit privatization model - those oligarchs, mostly from power net of postcommunists, earned cosmic lot on cheap bargain without modernization of what they purchased/grabbed. So they are like big landlords with noone really to share with for economic success.
Quote from AndRand :By strict legal standards - it is illegal because it is against Ukraine's law.

So, under Ukraine law, how legal is the current Junta ?
Are any changes to Ukraine law actually legal if they are made by an illegal Junta ?

And, given the current illegal nature of the present Ukraine govt,

The parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea has sent an official invitation to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to send a mission to observe the referendum on the region’s future, slated for March 16.

The Supreme Council has handed over the invitation to Switzerland, the country that holds the rotating presidency of the OSCE. Crimean authorities invited observers from both individual OSCE member-countries and the Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) to come to Crimea.

"I am confident that the parliament of Crimea will make it possible for them to be present at polling stations. This process is underway now and the referendum itself will be as transparent as possible," Crimean Prime Minister Sergey Aksyonov said, as quoted by Itar-Tass.
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-crimea-invites-osce-926/
Well I don't know which rock you hid under the last weeks, but OSCE observers have tried entering Crimea at least 3 times. All three times they were stopped from entering the peninsula by "masked militia", once with some gun fire for good measure. Same with many journalists.

I could go on explaining for a number of paragraphs citing numerous sources, but I can't be bothered for you to bash me down as a CIA infiltrated german mind.

In short what i want:

A free, unoccupied Ukraine that holds election under supervision of OSCE, UN, EU, Poland, Latvia and whatnot. After that we could start asking the Crimeans what they'd like to happen to their land.
Quote from Dmt :
So I just went thru the posts of Nightfly... Amaizing how informed you are and spreading the shi* around...

People, please dont be a victim of any kind of media source.

At first i thought it's for the best not to answer you at all and save some braincells but meh, I don't need them anyway from your perspective. i was not trying to prove how "informed" i am, I'm not crying around "free ukraine from russia", just expressing my opinion on things how Russia handles pretty delicate Ukrainian matter, it's probably way deeper than i imagine I admit...but how Russia tries to solve this by showing force and manipulating is wrong in my opinion (just my personal opinion based on the evidence found on the internet sources). Get your personal sh*t against me together and use some common sense at least if you selectively read only my posts instead of this entire thread.
The West and their puppet from Poland and Baltic territories should accept the situation.The Crimea goes to Russia.
Ukrainian people look like experimental animals in the games of the US and EU. They should join to Russia if they want to survive.
Quote from ACCAkut :Well I don't know which rock you hid under the last weeks, but OSCE observers have tried entering Crimea at least 3 times. All three times they were stopped from entering the peninsula by "masked militia", once with some gun fire for good measure. Same with many journalists.

I could go on explaining for a number of paragraphs citing numerous sources, but I can't be bothered for you to bash me down as a CIA infiltrated german mind.

In short what i want:

A free, unoccupied Ukraine that holds election under supervision of OSCE, UN, EU, Poland, Latvia and whatnot. After that we could start asking the Crimeans what they'd like to happen to their land.

Well, without commenting on who exactly was responsible for the clearly reported facts that you state, the Crimea wants an open vote.

Also, that open vote is not in the interest of the bankers.

In their opinion, our illegal junta is all you must support. Any agreement signed by this illegal junta will be binding, suck it up..........

The legal govt of the Crimea has asked to carry out an observed referendum regarding their future. If you support democracy, why disagree with the peoples choice. DOH, Phuq, yes I can be really stupid sometimes ......,

And, an open vote in the Crimea, where the resources are, well, yes that would be a great idea. The US spends 5 billion, pays for a revolution, gets their nazis into power, sells out to the bankers, screws the people. Welcome to the NWO.

Where's the gold gone ?

Who owed gold to Germany ?

Who has only returned 5 tons of German gold ? And, they just stole 35 to 40 tons here, I've already posted info on this, just wait a while for that to reach the media.
Why does Germany want to test the gold the FED has returned, why does the fed need so long to return German gold ?

Please comment on this dude............

Shall we talk about all the other countries invaded by these people ?

Shall we discuss the theft of resources/gold etc etc......

Oh right, no, no that's not something that we talk about............
Quote from Racer X NZ :So, under Ukraine law, how legal is the current Junta ?
Are any changes to Ukraine law actually legal if they are made by an illegal Junta ?

And, given the current illegal nature of the present Ukraine govt,

The parliament of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea has sent an official invitation to the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) to send a mission to observe the referendum on the region’s future, slated for March 16.

STOP THAT SHITTY PROPAGANDA!

What Junta???
Ukrainian constitution is legally voted constitution and it requires whole country to vote for change of borders.
Ukrainian parliament is legally chosen in free elections.
Impeachment is legal way of throwing off unlawful president.
Both Party of Regions (former party of Yanukovych) and opposition voted for impeachment of president Yanukovych, who cannot perform his duties staying abroad. Yanukovych claims to be president although there are no political parties nor armed forces to stand behind him (except Russians).
Chairman of Rada Verkchovna Turchynov is legal president in spe.

OSCE observers are trying SECOND WEEK to get into Crimea but are repeatedly turned down by armed forces of Crimea (so called Crimean self-defense... from several regions of Russia).


RACER - one advice when you try to discuss Eastern Europe. Forget about any ideology. It DOESNT MATTER. If cosmic UFO ideology could legitimate imperial domination of postsoviet nets it WOULD BE USED. It doesnt matter what ideology.
And frankly speaking... manace empire with economy size of Netherlands... come-on!!!
Quote from AndRand :And frankly speaking... manace empire with economy size of Netherlands... come-on!!!

Belgium seems closer in size ... but actually I didn't think thats Crimea is that big (even tho I saw that Top Gear episode )

and thanks for not giving up here like I did, all my current sources are in German and I can't be bothered to transcribe them into English for our Oz friend here, just to be bombarded with "facts" again.

Regarding the pic Yuri posted: Googling that name brings up a number of (far-left) blog entries plus the wiki site of some historic Ukraine nobleman, nothing else.
Guys on reddit answered my question about it stating that the guy there was a suspected Sniper. He was forced to bow before the victims and probably god, before Maidan leaders brought him to where all the other captured policemen were held. He was probably beaten up before, but not in the degree stated here. Plus he did not eat whatever form of cross

btw, with the Maidan being surrounded and all hospitals under police control, how should he have gotten into an ER?
Quote from AndRand :STOP THAT SHITTY PROPAGANDA!

What Junta???
Ukrainian constitution is legally voted constitution and it requires whole country to vote for change of borders.
Ukrainian parliament is legally chosen in free elections.
Impeachment is legal way of throwing off unlawful president.
Both Party of Regions (former party of Yanukovych) and opposition voted for impeachment of president Yanukovych, who cannot perform his duties staying abroad. Yanukovych claims to be president although there are no political parties nor armed forces to stand behind him (except Russians).
Chairman of Rada Verkchovna Turchynov is legal president in spe.

In a parlamentry democracy, a vote of no confidence, carried out freely by the parlament is the generally accepted way to deal with a situation of removing a prime minister or president. I am completely unaware of a free vote being carried out in this case.

Having a bunch of neonazi's threaten people till they do what they are told to doesn't really fit my above description.

Oh, did I say neo nazi's ? I realise you don't like that, so, let's take a definition from the EU in 2012, before they decided that they were sweet loving people who would sell the Ukraine people to the bankers.

LOL, I love this bit !

Svoboda was condemned in an official resolution voted and adopted by the European Parliament. The document, titled “European Parliament of 13 December, 2012 on the Situation in Ukraine,” is available online.
In section 8 of the resolution, the EU’s legislative body declares itself “concerned about the rising nationalistic sentiment in Ukraine, expressed in support for the Svoboda party, which, as a result, is one of the two new parties to enter the Verkhovna Rada,” the Ukrainian parliament.
Stating that “racist, anti-Semitic, and xenophobic views go against the EU’s fundamental values,” the European Parliament “therefore appeals to pro-democratic parties in the Verkhovna Rada not to associate with, endorse, or form coalitions with this party.”

When the imperialist powers embarked on a critical foreign policy operation, however—the installation of a pro-Western regime in Kiev—they easily overcame whatever scruples EU legislators may have had about Svoboda’s racism, anti-Semitism and xenophobia. It fell to a corrupt media, academic and cultural elite to package the resulting collaboration with fascists as a struggle for democracy, misleading the public through a combination of complicit silence and active falsification.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/break ... t-fascist-allies-ukraine/

A legal govt requires free and open elections, not a coup carried out by thugs. If your definition of a freely elected govt is based on a violent coup by a bunch of thugs, then your correct and the current junta in the Ukraine is, by your standards, legitimate. The traditional view of a legitimate government to different to your view however.
Yep, we're all nazi's here now, huge bald guys with Svoboda badges are running in the street, grab little children and burn a swastika on their foreheads...

Are you happy now?
Pic's or it never happened.......

That was the EU's definition, isn't it interesting to see how opinions change when there's several billion bucks/euros in it.

And you've given the US the gold they need to keep the Germans off their backs for 6 months.

Just don't bother making claims to have a legal legitimate govt, be happy with an illegal coup supported by Western criminals.

When you have an open, free election then the situation changes, not before.
If it's any consolation, even the US can't manage that.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Pic's or it never happened.......

Just don't bother making claims to have a legal legitimate govt, be happy with an illegal coup supported by Western criminals.


if you still don't get the joke

Any elections in this country is like choosing between softish shit or the one that is smellier. Its not choosing between good or bad, its the one that is less worse.

Current govt is definitely more legitimate than the one before. Why the hell that bothers you anyway?

Quote :Western criminals.

East is something better? Don't think so.
Quote from ACCAkut :Belgium seems closer in size ... but actually I didn't think thats Crimea is that big (even tho I saw that Top Gear episode )

Sorry, I used old data.
Russia now has GDP size of Italy not Netherlands (oil went higher)... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product
Not to mention GDP per capita...
Quote from Racer X NZ :In a parlamentry democracy, a vote of no confidence, carried out freely by the parlament is the generally accepted way to deal with a situation of removing a prime minister or president. I am completely unaware of a free vote being carried out in this case.

And this is exactly how it went.
Yanukovych agreed to sign settlement with opposition with road plan for next year. But he didnt sign it and flew to Russia. Therefore he was impeached by parliament - ALSO by his OWN PARTY which assumed him untrustworthy.
Quote :Having a bunch of neonazi's threaten people till they do what they are told to doesn't really fit my above description.

Oh, did I say neo nazi's ? I realise you don't like that, so, let's take a definition from the EU in 2012, before they decided that they were sweet loving people who would sell the Ukraine people to the bankers.

I really don't get it that you take all this propaganda provided by these people:
12% in Duma, Russian parliament, ultranationalists from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LDPR_(political_party)
Zhirinovsky: Yanukovych remains Ukrainian president
Russian Nationalist Zhirinovsk ... d by Crowds in Sevastopol




I do agree that your former PM was just as bent as the last 20 years of Ukraine PM's.
But, who's been financing the olegarchs into power ?
For a real laugh, check out the latest on Ю́лія Володи́мирівна Тимоше́нко.
This is a great piece. http://www.theguardian.com/wor ... appointments-new-fairness
"People here respect power, the oligarchs are wealthy, well known and well respected. They are seen as guarantors of stability," says local journalist Denis Tkachenko.

But for those active in Kiev's Euromaidan, or Independence Square, protests, putting businessmen into positions of power may not have been what they dreamed of. "This is the most controversial step of the new government – it is a risky gamble," says Serhiy Leshchenko, deputy chief editor of Ukrainian newspaper Pravda, and an investigative journalist who has spent decades analysing Ukraine's business and political elite.

Remember, I don't support either side.

This article makes an interesting read, and may answer some of your questions.

Russian Nazis, as anti-Putin as Ukrainian Nazis, are divided: some support a “Russian Crimea” whilst others prefer pro-European Kiev.

The junta appointed an oligarch to rule Donbas, Mr Sergey Taruta, but he had difficulty assuming power as the local people did not want him, and with good reason: Taruta had bought the major Polish port of Gdansk and brought it to bankruptcy. It seems he is better at siphoning capital away than in running serious business. Ominously, Mr Taruta brought with him some unidentified, heavily armed security personnel, reportedly guns-for-hire from Blackwater (a.k.a. Academi) fresh from Iraq and Afghanistan. He will need a lot more of them if he wants to take Donbas by force.

In Kharkov, the biggest Eastern city, erstwhile capital of Soviet Ukraine, local people ejected the raiding force of the Right Sector from government offices, but police joined with the oligarchs. While the fake revolution took place in Kiev under the tutelage of US and EC envoys, the real revolution is taking place now, and its future is far from certain.

The Ukraine hasn’t got much of an army, as the oligarchs stole everything ever assigned to the military. The Kiev regime does not rely on its army anyway. Their attempt to draft able-bodied men failed immediately as hardly anybody answered the call. They still intend to squash the revolution. Another three hundred Blackwater mercenaries landed Wednesday in Kiev airport. The Kiev regime applied for NATO help and expressed its readiness to allow US missiles to be stationed in the Ukraine. Missiles in the Ukraine (as now stationed in Poland, also too close for Russian comfort) would probably cross Russia’s red line, just as Russian missiles in Cuba crossed America’s red line in 1962.
http://www.counterpunch.org/20 ... 7/the-ukrainian-pendulum/

And, the OSCE certainly are in the country,

Thursday clashes were, Tsiplakov says initially started by the pro-Maidan protesters who had to show their strength to the OSCE observer mission.
“What they needed was to create a show for the OSCE observers, a show of display that was aimed to show that in this region, everyone supports the local government and the events on Euro-Maidan”
“The authorities pursuing through repressive and provocateur methods,” Tsiplakov says. The people in Donbass region are angry at the Kiev’s government because the authorities there have simply “armed” and offered government positions to ultra-nationalist “fighters”, he says, warning that plans to officially create militarized units out of extreme right fighters “will lead to guerrilla warfare.”

“Right now the tension within society is great,” the activist told RT. “No-one has listened to Donbas people when they were holding peaceful rallies, and when we had People’s Governor Pavel Gubarev, who strictly insisted on a peaceful course of action. He and his like minds were arrested,”
http://rt.com/news/ukraine-protest-donetsk-dead-674/

A chocolate fish to the first person to find the really interesting bit of info in the above post, ten chocolate fish to the first person who manages to associate an earlier posts info with the winning info in this post. With references please, come on, it shouldn't be hard if your paying attention. There are a number of clues in most of the above (this) post, all from different sources though.
Quote from Racer X NZ :A chocolate fish to the first person to find the really interesting bit of info in the above post, ten chocolate fish to the first person who manages to associate an earlier posts info with the winning info in this post. With references please, come on, it shouldn't be hard if your paying attention. There are a number of clues in most of the above (this) post, all from different sources though.

Searching for true information in a time of full scale information war, yeah, good luck.
Well DOH, your hardly likely to ever get that. You need to learn to read around the propoganda, you get some information from one source, confirmed indirectly from another source, which then means the information from a third source becomes clearer.

Every story is generally biased, some is clearly crap, some is only coloured by the writers opinions. Some is actually clear analysis of a given situation.

Let's take an example. This one is really basic. The US/bankers want's control of the Ukraines resources, The US also wants to site missiles in the country to threaten Russia. The Cold war isn't actually dead. The Orange Revolt didn't work as the people they got in charge immediatly turned to crime.
So the US/bankers spent 5 billion dollars creating the Brown revolt.

How do we know this ?, well, it isn't exactly being shouted from the rooftops in Washington. No western source is saying 'Look what we did'
It's reported in Russian media, but that's only propoganda, right ?

In this case it's confirmed by doofus Nuland boasting about it to her Nazi mates. And here it is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ

So, we now know that the US/bankers bankrolled this 'Peoples revolt', and so we can build from there to come close to the truth.

Does that help ?

FYI, that was another clue for the challenge.

And for those people who don't understand the prize.

Quote from [RF]-art555 :Searching for true information in a time of full scale information war, yeah, good luck.

It is kind of funny because this is what it is

The Crimea situation reminds what was the long historical tradition over there.
In XVII-XVIII centuries those areas were called Wild Fields. Something like Wild Wild West. Anyone who wanted to escape from law verdict could run into Wild Fields - they achieved status of Crimens (outlaws) so anybody who would meet them could execute the verdict (kill them).

It looks that this is how origin of rising Crimea state and Crimen nation appears now - it is made by former Berkut (anticrowd armed police forces) officers, now creating self-defence forces of Crimea, who ran from Ukraine where they would be persecuted for mass murder in Maidan. The agreement that Yanukovych was to sign with opposition would have broken the main rule of postcommunistic apartheid - they were to be untouched for this.
Now all this bullsh!t propaganda is not that surprising while Crimens are hard not to be called unhumans as they value everything that is unhumane - beginning from lies about reality, ending on lack on responsibility for murder. Well, I don't predict there that it create Aussie kind of state - quite decent country as for former prisoners It would be rather next state ruled by state terror as other examples of new Russia sattelites.
Easy on the quotes about 'murder on the maidan', there is rather a lot of information supporting the right carrying out the sniper attacks. And yes, the previous govt was completely corrupt and did carry out some violence against the dumb plebs who made up the numbers on the maidan.

Again, as I said in my above post, you do need to sift through the propoganda to get at the truth
Quote from Racer X NZ :Well DOH, your hardly likely to ever get that. You need to learn to read around the propoganda, you get some information from one source, confirmed indirectly from another source, which then means the information from a third source becomes clearer.

I prefer direct sources

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz7cqjiPtdY

All gone to shit in Ukraina, what now?
(629 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG