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Formula 1 Season 2014
(1761 posts, closed, started )
The overlap approach is imho too vague and too maybe a bit too restrictive as well as a tool to decide fault. Just because someone has the overlap momentarily does not mean he actually was in a position to pass. At what point is the overlap measured and how does once achieved overlap effect the rest of the turn? In spa rosberg had a lot of overlap going into the corner but did not have almost any of it at mid turn anymore. On corner exit he was basically behind hamilton apart from his front wing.

The thing is if you measure overlap from corner entry then late braking may automatically become dive bombing (despite being legal passing move otherwise) because at the initial braking point the cars are not side by side. If you measure overlap at mid turn then how do you deal with switchbacks? And if the overlap only matters in corner exits then it is a moot point anyways because if you are side by side on corner exit the move is basically done already. Unless you only want to prevent drivers pushing others off the road on corner entry. But that would be a good start. It is kinda crazy that on corner exits being fully alongside means the driver inside can still legally push you off the road (most of the time) but doing the same thing on corner entry is forbidden.

If we want to reduce the collisions I think this challenge based approach that I just invented could work little better (being my idea...:tilt. If the drivers are close enough so that they can not freely run any line they want then both of them need to leave room at all times. Basically if a position is being challenged you can not take a line that causes a collision if the other driver doesn't back off even if the other drive only has his front wing next to you. In a way this is a bit like the nascar rule where any overlap is sufficient (at least early in the race).

This rule would effectively prevent drivers from running other drivers off the track on corner exits. It would make it easier to solve situations where two cars hit each other on the straightaway for example. But the most important thing this kind of rule prevents is the drivers saying he did not see the other guy. I think seeing is way overvalued when it comes to passing and defending. It is not about seeing where the other guy is. It is about knowing where he is. And equally about not knowing. Sometimes not seeing is not knowing but most of the time it isn't.

This rule would not eliminate defending either because it doesn't really change the wording of what defending is. Defending doesn't allow you to drive into other people. So in a way this rule would have similar goal. To prevent contact. But if you are ahead you can still choose any line you want as long as you are not weaving all over the place.

And most importantly it could improve the racing. Going around the outside is very difficult nowadays in F1 because the rules most of the time allow the car on the inside to drive the other car off the road on corner exits. If driver were expected to leave space then that would be automatic penalty. Instead of looking for the overlap we simply look whether two drivers were racing for position or not and were they close enough.

With this rule here are few examples. First obviously the robsberg/haemitlon/spa. Clearly the position was challenged by robsberg when going into the corner. So haemitlon should have left space according to this rule. This is the interpretation based on this rule and not the rules that are in effect now in f1.

Then haemitlon/moneynada/valencia. Hamilton should have left room for maldonado on corner exit.

Vetlel/Kubic/Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPXVzLTPIxo
No penalty as vettel left room on the outside.

In this clip maldonado does nothing wrong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw-HjaKxA4Y

Vettel gets a penalty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx9zIQvrdZU

Massa gets penalty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B33HaWnDovU

Perez gets penalty:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1ap51Gu390
Quote from DeadWolfBones :I rarely agree with anything a Kingsbury posts, but I've always subscribed to the view that if you've got any overlap on the car ahead, it's up to that guy not to run over you. But that's probably because I'm an American and I grew up watching NASCAR/ovals in general, where that's the standard operating procedure. (Also, you know, logic. It's racing—you go for any gap you can get to.)

They've got mirrors I mean really. I've held this belief ever since Kimi got clipped by Magnussen because Kimi was driving like a dumbass and Magnussen held his inside line. Europeans are such idiots. They complain that f1 is congoline racing then bitch when someone tries to go side by side into a corner.
The thing is Rosberg already started to withdraw from the move before he hit Hamilton.

Either way its still a racing incident dispite the many pages this bs is still going on.

One thing you don't do in F1 is hit a brit, your gonna have a bad time especially if your German.
Quote from amp88 :While Hamilton, of course, has never been involved in any clumsy collisions which have resulted in damage to his own car and cost him points...

Hmm, never, and certainly not 2 races ago in Germany.
It's funny how there are still no clear rules when it comes to racing and overtaking lol. Always, and i mean always when there's an incident there are 100 different opinions of what is correct and what isn't.
Quote from Bmxtwins :They've got mirrors I mean really. I've held this belief ever since Kimi got clipped by Magnussen because Kimi was driving like a dumbass and Magnussen held his inside line. Europeans are such idiots. They complain that f1 is congoline racing then bitch when someone tries to go side by side into a corner.

On the Sky super whizzo 3d graphics thing, they showed the point of contact from both driver's eyelines. Rosberg wasn't in Hamilton's mirrors and of course Rosberg couldn't see his own front wing. The mirrors are fairly pointless so it is sensible to put the onus on the guy behind to make the right call if they are not alongside - they are the ones with the most information.

The actual collision is immaterial now. It's the schism within the team that carries on to the next races that matters. There will hopefully be that moment in Monza where they are side by side and we'll see what they both really think then.
A) I think clear rules would actually be a bad thing, as it would be too easy to cover the possibilities legally, and it would be too easy to dish out a punishment from a very slight misjudgement

B) I think clear rules are impossible when it comes to overtaking. Overtaking is very different to, say, obeying track limits or not jumping the start.

I quite like Hyperactive's thoughts which on the whole appear sound. But does it work with the nitty gritty of the details of specific future incidents? Hard to know.


The drama is the best bit. Senna vs Prost would have been relatively boring, looking back, without the rivalry and the backstabbing and the mental war. Long may this continue to add spice to a season of otherwise total domination. Even if that means the conspiracy theorists get to make themselves look really really stupid by opening their mouths.
Civil War: I'm With Hyperactive
Quote from Mustafur :The thing is Rosberg already started to withdraw from the move before he hit Hamilton.

Either way its still a racing incident dispite the many pages this bs is still going on.

One thing you don't do in F1 is hit a brit, your gonna have a bad time especially if your German.

Whilst to incur the wrath of Australian fans, all a German has to do is not let the Aussie win http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/ ... -sebastian-vettel-3244181
Do the Germans see him as properly German, or is he seen as a Finn brought up in Monaco with a German passport? Greg Rusedski to Tim Henman, if you will.
If Rosberg will win the championship by crashing a brit he will eventually be a proper german.
Quote from Storm_Cloud :Do the Germans see him as properly German, or is he seen as a Finn brought up in Monaco with a German passport? Greg Rusedski to Tim Henman, if you will.

Keke was born in Sweden. If people want to call him Finnish because he was raised there, then how could you call Nico German or Finnish?
Quote from PMD9409 :Keke was born in Sweden. If people want to call him Finnish because he was raised there, then how could you call Nico German or Finnish?

and Nico was born in Germany.
Quote from Mustafur :Yet it was the Brits who still sided against the German.

You're clearly much more concerned about nationality than I am, maybe it's a result of the Webber-Vettel years when you lot were a bunch of whiney conspiracy theorists. "Rack off, mate".
Quote from Oliver Feistkorn :If Rosberg will win the championship by crashing a brit he will eventually be a proper german.

Hahaha! Very sharp!
Quote from Storm_Cloud :Do the Germans see him as properly German, or is he seen as a Finn brought up in Monaco with a German passport? Greg Rusedski to Tim Henman, if you will.

its never really the topic somehow. iirc they emphasized on them being German more when talking about Adrian Sutil and Andre Lotterer
Quote from Mustafur :and Nico was born in Germany.

I think you missed the point, unless you are calling Keke Swedish.
Quote from Oliver Feistkorn :If Rosberg will win the championship by crashing a brit he will eventually be a proper german.

...but this time it is role reversal and they are in the same car.

In other news did I hear that Button is out/preparing to be out/expecting to be out/etc.?
No doubt Honda are throwing some money in for next year....
This thread is closed

Formula 1 Season 2014
(1761 posts, closed, started )
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