- Improved/increased the loss of grip that occurs the thinner the tire tread rubber gets.

What the ****. Since when did loss of tread depth soley cause lack of grip?

Quote from StableX :

Is this the first time they've (sort of) said that the NTM will have tyre wear rather than loss of grip due to increased temperature?

So which time were they incorrect?

I don't believe since the so called 2.0 NTM came out that they've said that any car has tyre wear, have they Phil? Could be wrong but didn't think so. They've always said lack of grip comes from the tyre temps only.... never due to less rubber left on the tyre..... That's promising to actually have some form of wear like there was in the NTM 1.0

It was still there they are just making it more noticeable

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Where is the update? I want Bathurst now

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Quote from BlueFlame :

- Improved/increased the loss of grip that occurs the thinner the tire tread rubber gets.

What the ****. Since when did loss of tread depth soley cause lack of grip?

From 6/7mm of tread to 3mm not so much but from 3mm to nothing you would be supprised.. My r888's feel noticably less grippy as they approach their wear markers (1.6mm) if you keep drivinv the tyre just gets harder and harder reducing the grip.

Quote from chris_uk :

From 6/7mm of tread to 3mm not so much but from 3mm to nothing you would be supprised.. My r888's feel noticably less grippy as they approach their wear markers (1.6mm) if you keep drivinv the tyre just gets harder and harder reducing the grip.

LFS is so realistic then, when you run the best laps at the end of your stint on thin tyres.

Quote from chris_uk :

From 6/7mm of tread to 3mm not so much but from 3mm to nothing you would be supprised.. My r888's feel noticably less grippy as they approach their wear markers (1.6mm) if you keep drivinv the tyre just gets harder and harder reducing the grip.

Yea but this is real life. Where repeated heated and cooling of a tyre reduce the performance of a tyre's surface.

It won't be the tread depth that has any influence on grip levels. It will be every other kind of wear. Unless you're on the canvas there will be no difference. I mean it's a shitty analogy but it's still true. Take an eraser, it isn't any less effective just because of it's size. That would be like saying dump truck tyres have more grip just because they have a bigger tread depth.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Yea but this is real life. Where repeated heated and cooling of a tyre reduce the performance of a tyre's surface.

It won't be the tread depth that has any influence on grip levels. It will be every other kind of wear. Unless you're on the canvas there will be no difference. I mean it's a shitty analogy but it's still true. Take an eraser, it isn't any less effective just because of it's size. That would be like saying dump truck tyres have more grip just because they have a bigger tread depth.

Incorrect.

Less rubber on the tire means that the rubber on the surface has less of the rubber to dig into the road with, so to speak.

If you take a microscope and look really close to a tire you see small hairs everywhere, threads across etc, the more you wear them down, the less the tire will have to work with, and the less friction it can withstand.

Comparing the two is completely irrelevant, it just doesn't make sense.

Quote from Dennis93 :

Incorrect.

Less rubber on the tire means that the rubber on the surface has less of the rubber to dig into the road with, so to speak.

If you take a microscope and look really close to a tire you see small hairs everywhere, threads across etc, the more you wear them down, the less to tire will work, and the less friction it can withstand.

Comparing the two is completely irrelevant, it just doesn't make sense.

This is not lost on me but like I said in my first post. Tread depth alone does not = grip

Though in some cases having a lower tread gauge will yield more stability because the blocks of rubber aren't moving around as much.

Quote from BlueFlame :

This is not lost on me but like I said in my first post. Tread depth alone does not = grip

Though in some cases having a lower tread gauge will yield more stability because the blocks of rubber aren't moving around as much.

Well, tread depth alone means grip.

As I pointed out, the more tread there is in the tire the more it can wrestle around, work the whole tire.

A tire with less rubber usually feels hard and very stiff to drive on, like there is never enough heat or even too much.

The more depth in a tire means more grip in real life.

Quote from Dennis93 :

Well, tread depth alone means grip.

As I pointed out, the more tread there is in the tire the more it can wrestle around, work the whole tire.

A tire with less rubber usually feels hard and very stiff to drive on, like there is never enough heat or even too much.

The more depth in a tire means more grip in real life.

Well I'll just have to take you word for it.

Arguing something you know nothing about and/or have no experience in doing is pretty dull.

Quote from Dennis93 :

Arguing something you know nothing about and/or have no experience in doing is pretty dull.

Well the reason I commented is because it sounds wrong but of course. Even so this is comparing road tyres to race tyres in terms of the experience I have, and teh experience you have and as you rightly said, comparing the two is silly.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Well the reason I commented is because it sounds wrong but of course. Even so this is comparing road tyres to race tyres in terms of the experience I have, and teh experience you have and as you rightly said, comparing the two is silly.

Road tires don't have more grip as they wear down either?

Pretty simple physics actually.

In theory, if you wear a road tyre down to a slick, it could (trollface)

Quote from Bmxtwins :

In theory, if you wear a road tyre down to a slick, it could (trollface)

In theory, if you removed your head, you'd be smarter.

Quote from Dennis93 :

Road tires don't have more grip as they wear down either?

Yea but this isn't solely because of tread consumption. There's thermal degradation involved. That's my point.

But as we said, it's silly to compare them. A race tyre will probably never get used again once it's been dormant for 24hours where as road tyres have big inactive periods which depending on the thermal circumstances can soften/weaken or harden the tyre.

I really don't understand your logic on this subject.

Therefore I rest my case, There's simply no point trying to argue.

Quote from BlueFlame :

- Improved/increased the loss of grip that occurs the thinner the tire tread rubber gets.

What the ****. Since when did loss of tread depth soley cause lack of grip?

All other arguments aside. Where do you get the word "solely" from? I read it as becoming an additional reason a tyre will lose grip.

Quote from menantoll :

I read it as becoming an additional reason a tyre will lose grip.

Well clearly. I didn't.

Build delayed until early 2009.

Quote from S3ANPukekoh3 :

but that is not what is happening at all is it?

Surely it shouldn't effect the slip angle or the contact patch of the tyre, the only way i can see it having any effect is if the tyre has a different composition the further it gets worn out...

Then again, I did fail 2nd year Engineering.

I didn't read your post at all sorry.

tire degradation is one thing, but what wheel wears the most over the course of a race is simply how the cars layout and/or set up.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Well clearly. I didn't.

Well clearly. You should have thought about it a little more.

We already know that temperature is one of the factors. We also know that track temperature (well whatever the weather is set to anyway) can make a difference to grip levels. Why do you think that they would bin all the other reasons and make tire thickness the sole reason to lose grip?