Yes, indeed. It's better than bumping in corners...

(insert massively huge safety wink here :razz

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I'm obviously for the pit maneuvre, so it'll make an interesting discussion.

Oh it's on now!

This is a weird thread :feedtroll

To add my few into this thread... i saw myself lot of times in Passo's video and that reminded me this whole thing again. When i was in the race, i was staring with open mouth into my mirrors at cars closing faster than rocket propelled snail. Though i joined that fun later few times, i felt like something is wrong and yes, i think this kind of action should remain for oval racing, not on regular tracks. Lot of damage can be done either by just helping your teammate or bumping to/into unlucky stranger, who hasn't any f*cking idea, what the hell is going on, or just by (as said before) destroying a hardly built gap between you and some other car.
It's up to admins, how the rules will stand for next season, but i hope, they will ban this part.

Quote from dekojester :

This entire bumpdrafting arguing is getting completely silly. Seriously, going to the level of trolling/personal attacks ? This is absolutley stupid. Anyone doing any attacks or anything of that nature is by default, excluded from the dsicussion. Make your points without cheap shots or calling people names, that's just completely childish. This behavior is NOT what you want in public for a series that has a rather high public profile. This is NOT good for the reputation.

So, calm down, get over it, it happened. Discuss why or why it shouldn't be allowed for next season to your minds, but remember, it's the admins final call, and deal with that comes from them.

To be perfectly honest, some of the discussions seen here make me want to never take part in this series again if some people act like this. This does NOT reflect well.

dekojester

Well said, Deko.

Thanks guys, for your honest opinions - but let's keep it to your opinions and stay away from personal attacks on someone with a different viewpoint.

I actually think a healthy debate on our rules is good for the iTCC - it shows how passionate we all are about our racing and it helps to inform the admins about where the racers want to see the series go. But let's keep the comments civil and polite, please

Quote from boothy :

Finally, someone talking sense FWD would be great (ie at least 75% FTS) - would make slides easier to control as well, a fixed rear wing and specified setup ranges, and would all be making the series more like the recently announced NGTC spec cars the BTCC announced (FWD, 2 litre, 300bhp turbo). Tyres - what compound were you thinking of?

Imo make it like it is atm then in WTCC, give us 2 cars with a fwd and a rwd.
fwd is boring anyway..

Quote from boothy :

FWD would be great

No.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Ok, so it shows no skill to hold the throttle down and bump someone, but it does take brains.

BTW, lets make this series more realistic. Lets have mandatory downforce, only one tire compound, and all cars FWD!

a) Howcome you smartasses haven't thought of bumpdrafting in qualifying?

b) How would fixed wings help?

Quote from dekojester :

This entire bumpdrafting arguing is getting completely silly.

No it isn't.

The problem in this debate is that the ones for BD haven't actually got any better point than being able to do so by LFS. That means that inevitably the only way for them to get their message heard is to repeat it as many times as possible. That annoys the guys against it and a flamewar begins.

I do not especially care to make anyone angry by insulting dear religion Bumpdrafting. Neither do I claim that it somehow differs from gaining advantage by drafting normally (even though it in reality might be true) or gaining in any other way. However I would like to emphasize that this series is supposed to be like an European Touring car series where this action does not happen, and that in reality it would not be even possible to do so.

Quote from Tomhah :

This is a weird thread :feedtroll

Plus one.

Quote from Rudy van Buren :

Imo make it like it is atm then in WTCC, give us 2 cars with a fwd and a rwd.
fwd is boring anyway..

Eh? There's 3 cars in wtcc? Would we then get a UF1 to pose as the diesel?

Quote from hyntty :

Eh? There's 3 cars in wtcc? Would we then get a UF1 to pose as the diesel?

Eh? most of your post is good but now you go to far

yea oke 3 cars in wtcc, good guy if you get the fxr xrr and fzr equal though

Quote :

Originally Posted by dekojester
This entire bumpdrafting arguing is getting completely silly.

It it silly.

It's the fact that the iTCC touring car format encourages bumping, (according to what the broadcasters said all year) yet we are all sitting here arguing about people bumping, in a controlled manner.

God forbid we talk about all the low racing standards in the series, the ballast issues, or the uncontrolled bumping (and crashing) than was literally all over the series at the end of the season? Thanks to Michael, we have a community wide debate, that is bringing in a bunch of opinions that quite frankly shouldn't be taken into account. Hell, I've spent more time in the movie thread telling a cruise driver the flaws in his statements, than I have giving input to what could make this series better. This should have been discussed with the iTCC drivers and admins, not Bob the cruise driver.

Simply put, bump drafting is a part of racing. When you remove that ability, you are in someway taking the driver out of the sport. As I said earlier, I encourage bump drafting because it's a part of racing. You didn't hear me complaining when Rudy bump drafted past me, and went from 6th to 3rd in the last lap of one of our BL1 races... That's because everyone can do it. So please, let's not turn iTCC into F1.

My name aint bob and sometimes i get lost in racing servers too.

Quote from hyntty :

a) Howcome you smartasses haven't thought of bumpdrafting in qualifying?

b) How would fixed wings help?

A) We did, but the word sportsmanship is very important to us, so we saw a "fastest lap with help" as being unfair. Which it is.

B) It wouldn't, read more often, notice the sarcasm.

Quote from Rudy van Buren :

yea oke 3 cars in wtcc, good guy if you get the fxr xrr and fzr equal though

I would love a RWD more than anyone in this world, but I don't want to have another IGTC/MoE/Devs who don't know how to make cars equal (no offense but it's true).

Quote from PMD9409 :

A) We did, but the word sportsmanship is very important to us, so we saw a "fastest lap with help" as being unfair. Which it is.

B) It wouldn't, read more often, notice the sarcasm.

a) How is getting help in qualifying different from getting help in the race? WTCC drivers do drafting in quali anyway for example. How can you possibly be sportsmanlike enough in qualifying not to use help from yarr mateys, but it's okay to do so in the race?

b) That wasn't my point. What series that has cars with wings have them fixed? Previously you talked about BTCC new regs sucking arse so I presumed you ment that going towards real life would be crap.

Quote :

I would love a RWD more than anyone in this world, but I don't want to have another IGTC/MoE/Devs who don't know how to make cars equal (no offense but it's true).

Why not do a DTM like ballast among car classes? Say, for the more/most succesfull car model you'd give x kg or x % restriction after each race. And remove some from the model that performs worsely?

well since gtr's have to much grip for the 'wtcc' level why not do some test with tweak and put slick's under the tbo cars ?

Quote from hyntty :

a) How is getting help in qualifying different from getting help in the race? WTCC drivers do drafting in quali anyway for example. How can you possibly be sportsmanlike enough in qualifying not to use help from yarr mateys, but it's okay to do so in the race?

b) That wasn't my point. What series that has cars with wings have them fixed? Previously you talked about BTCC new regs sucking arse so I presumed you ment that going towards real life would be crap.


Why not do a DTM like ballast among car classes? Say, for the more/most succesfull car model you'd give x kg or x % restriction after each race. And remove some from the model that performs worsely?

a) Because qualifying has to do with a single driver doing his/her fastest lap. In a race it is the first across the line. You don't have to be the fastest driver to win.

And if you want to go on a sportsmanlike rant, ask yourself: What is more unsportsmanlike? Cleanly bumpdrafting past someone, or divebombing someone and making contact? Clean passes seems hard to do in this series because the tracks were big and fast (even FE3R and SO4R), and the cars grip so much that you are nearly flatout in many places (WE1R, AS3, KY2R).

b) Read my post! I never said fixed wings were good! I even said my post was sarcastic. That "realism" aspect in this series would be either too difficult (to balance, if different cars) or it would just get too complex(somehow) , and confuse drivers and viewers.

I love a high realism factor in sim-racing, after all, that is what it's all about. But sometimes going too far throws out either the fun factor, or it shows the flaws of the sim.


On a side note: Looking back on the series, one of its best rounds (IMO) was Blackwood. The racing there was close, but also you had the right "speed" in which you could make clean passes. And don't forget the greatest move there, which was Rudy's bumpdraft from 6th to 3rd on the last lap, passing Nolan, which changed up the points quite a bit.

On to more important matters:

Round 6 Race 2 video should be up and viewable by UKish Evening. It's uploading now, and should be available after conversion.



d

Quote from dekojester :

Round 6 Race 2 video

Can We has the fraps download? I'd like to watch that instead of molivewhatever.

Quote from hyntty :

Can We has the fraps download? I'd like to watch that instead of molivewhatever.

I will be doing some edits to those then reposting them. They aren't perfectly clut, so I'm going to tighten them up. May also offer DVD sets if anyone might ever be interested, and I can get it sorted out.

d

Any idea on when the season will be finalized?

Quote from BigTime :

Any idea on when the season will be finalized?

Very soon, I need to do the points and publish them and then you'll know who's finished where.

Sorry it's took a while, I'm very busy with work right now. I'll do the points in the next day or two.

Cheers