The online racing simulator
iRacing
(13714 posts, closed, started )
Quote from Electrik Kar :but why do they need to laser scan ovals anyway?

Because they're not allowed to nuke them.
Quote from danowat :I wouldn't worry about it, people like nihil just like to "fight the power"

LOL... Yes indeed, there are people like nihil who adopt a pose, but nihil just has a voracious curiosity that is hard to satisfy or placate with pre-packaged thought.

Quote from Danke :I'm struggling with the concept of being a submissive consumer. The alternative is to be an aggressive consumer? Do I have this right?

Without a doubt, but it is rarely granted in a transparent fashion; you have to explore a bit to find ways of exercising this, unfortunately, little known right, but just start from the basis that anything is permissable.

PS. Can't add anything at the moment to Sam's eloquent treatise on this matter. Well done, sir.
I've not been watching this discussion since the $20 demo was announced, but if everyone stops just giving in to these things it's really easy to change the company's attitude.

If nobody pays the money for the demo, they will be forced to drop the price, or abandon it entirely. If only a handful of people sign up for the crazy subscription fee, they will need to rethink their strategy. It does work. Recently EA changed their plans because of the outcry made about one of their upcoming Pay2Play games (I forget which now, but I'm pretty sure it was EA).
But if people just mindlessly go ahead and pay it anyway, the company has no reason to complain - they make money.

And in a product like this where you NEED other players to make it worth the money, the company NEEDS as many accounts as it can get or the few who do sign up will quickly move on.
Quote from Dajmin :I've not been watching this discussion since the $20 demo was announced, but if everyone stops just giving in to these things it's really easy to change the company's attitude.

If nobody pays the money for the demo, they will be forced to drop the price, or abandon it entirely. If only a handful of people sign up for the crazy subscription fee, they will need to rethink their strategy. It does work. Recently EA changed their plans because of the outcry made about one of their upcoming Pay2Play games (I forget which now, but I'm pretty sure it was EA).
But if people just mindlessly go ahead and pay it anyway, the company has no reason to complain - they make money.

And in a product like this where you NEED other players to make it worth the money, the company NEEDS as many accounts as it can get or the few who do sign up will quickly move on.

I am going to show my disapproval for their pricing structure by failing to purchase their product =)
The whole laser scanned tracks thing is only going to make the slightest difference to a very small minority of people, and of those an even smaller percentage will actually notice the accuracy on the track - the rest of them will simply be more smug about how realistic it is, despite having nothing to base a proper comparison on.

I've never driven at Lime Rock Park and the chances of me ever doing enough laps there to be able to notice if, in a game, a minor bump is not present are very slim. And it wouldn't really make any difference to me if it wasn't, even if I could notice it.

I don't know how well it will do. I'm not sure if there are enough people who take it all seriously enough.
sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us? So it's that market that they are wanting to cough up the money, who I bet will care a lot more than us [simracers] if every bump is correct.
Quote from Bob Smith :sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us? So it's that market that they are wanting to cough up the money, who I bet will care a lot more than us [simracers] if every bump is correct.

That's the way they've always pimped it, but I think a lot of that is purely to make themselves look more professional.
Look at the types of cars they've confirmed so far. Most of them aren't vehicles that would really notice a 1mm inaccuracy
Quote from Bob Smith :sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us?

I think that's an impression that has grown in this thread, but its clear from the iRacing site who they are aiming at:

Quote :a comprehensive yet user-friendly service that will address the wishes of many veteran simracers and attract a new group of motorsport enthusiasts and professionals to the sport of internet racing.

&

Quote :...in part by making it more approachable for the novice and more satisfying for the long-time simracer

&

Quote :the result is an experience so authentic that professional racers and experienced amateurs can hone their skills prior to on-track competition or testing.

Frankly, they're covering all the bases in their marketing, so I think its a mistake to believe that the everyday or (even the casual) simulation enthusiast is not in the target market.
Bob, if they were really targetting real racing drivers, I think they'd have a weather model in place at launch. Real drivers spend all their practice time setting up for track conditions. I think it's a lump of hype-coal.
I pay for no game which can't, or does not include the Nordschleife.
Quote from frankwer :What Tracks Are Included In The Initial Subscription?
Lime Rock Park x 2 (with or without the chicane)
Laguna Seca
Summit Point x 4?

Very nice tracks but 3 just isn't going to be enough to keep people happy and the majority of the extra circuits on the list are boring circuits that no one is going to want to race on by choice.

Quote from Electrik Kar :I don't want to sound ignorant (although I probably will) but why do they need to laser scan ovals anyway? Surely that kind of technology would be much better suited to the more complex road tracks?

TBH ovals need some kind of bump reproduction more than real tracks because they generally have poor quality surfaces and there isn't much else to differentiate one from another.
Quote from Bob Smith :sinbad - aren't they doing all this because they are targeting real racers, and not existing simracers like us? So it's that market that they are wanting to cough up the money, who I bet will care a lot more than us [simracers] if every bump is correct.

...except iRacing doesn't bring about revolutionary new things (i.e. incredible aero modelling etc) that make more difference than that tiny dip 3 cm from the edge of the apex of T1...
Quote from frankwer :What annoys me is that there is only 3 road tracks we get and the rest is ovals. This annoys me when i think about the cost of buying additional tracks. I would have wanted to exchange those 4 ovals with 4 road tracks.

Small correction: 2 of the Lowe's tracks are road courses (using some part of the oval).
Quote from Electrik Kar :I don't want to sound ignorant (although I probably will) but why do they need to laser scan ovals anyway? Surely that kind of technology would be much better suited to the more complex road tracks?

Ovals (especially older ones) are quite bumpy, which can make quite a difference when your car is on the edge of traction going around a corner at 190mph.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Small correction: 2 of the Lowe's tracks are road courses (using some part of the oval).

Rovals are not proper race tracks, they're always flat, boring and artificial and by definition have an oval section.
Quote from frankwer :Summit Point

great well get a track that looks like it has an erection... suddenly the subscription model makes so much more sense
Quote from ajp71 :Rovals are not proper race tracks, they're always flat, boring and artificial and by definition have an oval section.

Except that this one isn't flat.

One of them does have an oval section, but the other doesn't (it's more of a short track road course, but nevertheless...). Blanket-dismissing all rovals is expected from Europeans/Brits, I guess, but they're a big part of the racing landscape over here and not all of them are worthless. Like it or leave it, the Daytona roval, for instance, is a classic racetrack.
If this sim is designed with professional drivers in mind, does that mean they'll laser scan each track again whenever the surface changes?

I'm not surprised they're charging a fortune.
Quote from thisnameistaken :If this sim is designed with professional drivers in mind, does that mean they'll laser scan each track again whenever the surface changes?

I'm not surprised they're charging a fortune.

That's about right
Quote from thisnameistaken :If this sim is designed with professional drivers in mind, does that mean they'll laser scan each track again whenever the surface changes?

I'm not surprised they're charging a fortune.

Well they better get 'cracken' because it will change virtually after every race a little bit and after every rainstorm.... every frost...every sunny day...
Quote from ajp71 :Rovals are not proper race tracks, they're always flat, boring and artificial and by definition have an oval section.

Say no to artificial tracks! Support the return to natural tracks! Get your organic track spores today - just $5.99!
Quote from DeadWolfBones :
One of them does have an oval section, but the other doesn't (it's more of a short track road course, but nevertheless...). Blanket-dismissing all rovals is expected from Europeans/Brits, I guess, but they're a big part of the racing landscape over here and not all of them are worthless. Like it or leave it, the Daytona roval, for instance, is a classic racetrack.

Daytona is awful, all it consists of is an oval with a chicane and a little twiddly detour on round some completely flat and dull corners. If you're going to have an oval then run it as an oval, don't try and make a nominal road course out of it because it'll just be crap and oval style racing is never going to happen. The Daytona 24 hours is an event, the location is very important the history and atmosphere of the track is very important but the actual track itself isn't.

Quote from xaotik :Say no to artificial tracks! Support the return to natural tracks! Get your organic track spores today - just $5.99!

The best roval in the world has to be Mallory Park, although most people are probably unaware of the fact it is a roval, mainly because it's a cracking little track which isn't flat or banked and started life as a horse track rather than somebody trying to make a racing circuit, which never ever works.
Quote from Shotglass :great well get a track that looks like it has an erection... suddenly the subscription model makes so much more sense

ROFL

Cool, it looks like a neolithic cave painting! Well, maybe I have something to thank iRental for: I'd never heard of Summit Point before this and it looks like a neat complex of tracks.

Can anyone trace the origin of this image? Saw it (unattributed) on a couple of sites, but it looks like a Blender render from a GPS trace.
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iRacing
(13714 posts, closed, started )
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