Quote from CSU1 :

five minute conversions...buggy piles of shit...ok' forget about fans designing tracks, converting them from other data to suit LFS, won't happen...and I know this was discussed to death in that other thread but I was lead to believe the only reason we don't have such (non slap up conversions/piles of squinty shit. Topographic data allready exists for ALL real tracks iirc) content is problems of copyright costs...

Personally I feel when the time comes for the man to begin work on tracks(not that he needs too) the communit should be called apon to help out with even the smallest parts of the project, textures for example. It would make everyone feel more involved etc.etc.

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Hasn't happened in other moddable games. Usually the same old crap, with the odd new texture, but completely hopeless recreations of tracks. And I'm not talking amount of detail (bumps, perfect cambers, kerb profiles etc), I'm referring to basic data like length of straights, radii of bends, amount of gradient... Almost without exception they're rubbish.

I see no reason why the LFS community will be much different. Sure EK can do great textures, and xxxx might be able to make a nice track, but in the whole I see it failing.

nKP for example had specially made tracks by Jaap as something nice. But they are just clones of GP4, which means that they might as well be fantasy tracks they're that far from reality... And I've driven one of his tracks in real life (Silverstone), and should be doing Spa this year (if my budget goes to plan).

Why bother doing something it is isn't done right? No one wins awards for mediocrity. There is no excuse to EVER release crap work

I haven't got much experience with other sims. Nor with this one for that matter. But think for a while what would happen if the community was able to add tracks to LfS.

There would be thousands of Numburgerrings (sic) and monumentian (sic) drift tracks. Is this really what you wish for?

I have nothing agains real tracks or real cars in LfS but I really don't think we need them. How many LfS players have ever driven any car on any track? Some have some haven't. Others are racers in real life others don't even have a drivers licence.

Even if the devs did Nürburgring and even if they got it right down to the T there would be someone to complain how there should be a bump on the small straight after the umptyumpth turn on the left side.

Leave the development to the devs. I believe if they need help they will ask for it. And leave the modding until AFTER LfS has reached the final version. I can't believe how many people do not realise LfS is still in an ALPHA state. Or don't they know what the alpha means?

Damn! Have I really become a grumpy old man...

Quote from March Hare :

I believe if they need help they will ask for it

I don't agree with that statement.

There are a number of people in the community that could make a very positive input to the development of LFS, Electik Kar springs to mind, and I am sure the input from a selected number of people would help speed up the addition of new features in LFS.

Quote from danowat :

I don't agree with that statement.

So you think the devs are unable to ask for help even if they need it?

I never said there aren't people who could help the devs. I just happen to believe the devs are cabable of deciding by them selves if they need any. A good example of this is the recent sound update.

Quote from March Hare :

So you think the devs are unable to ask for help even if they need it?

Maybe sometimes they don't realize they might need it? Most(?) of the current car sounds were made by one of the players, after the sound editor shortcut was leaked

Maybe the sometimes realise they could benefit from help, but don't want to as it doesn't generally fit with their development style.

Anyway, it makes no difference to us, as we've known all the long they work alone, except very occasionally. If they choose not to now and again, it's a bonus rather than a precident.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe the sometimes realise they could benefit from help, but don't want to as it doesn't generally fit with their development style.

Anyway, it makes no difference to us, as we've known all the long they work alone, except very occasionally. If they choose not to now and again, it's a bonus rather than a precident.

Is the correct answer.

Sure, LFS development will continue as it is, and it will, regardless of what you/I/anybody says.

Could they do it quicker with the help of a handfull of talented individuals? sure they could, but they obviously don't want to.

I have no major problem with it, I am as bored to death with the current track selection as the next man, trying to come up with combos when you are running leagues highlights the fact that we have all been driving round and round the same places for years, and yes, it does get a bit "samey".

The beauty of sim racing is that you can dip in and out of other sims at will, and luckily there are plenty of other sims around that can "scratch the itch".

I find myself playing LFS less and less these days (and I am certainly not alone, I know a number of the "old guard" that feel the same way currently), but I know it will always be there when I want/need to play it, it's been that way for me since 2003

Quote from danowat :

I don't agree with that statement.

There are a number of people in the community that could make a very positive input to the development of LFS, Electik Kar springs to mind, and I am sure the input from a selected number of people would help speed up the addition of new features in LFS.

It's a nice idea, but extremely naive to believe that it would suddenly speed up the development process.

There are two ways the team could be expanded:
#1 Bringing in extra payed team members
#2 Bringing in Volunteers

Each of those options comes with a whole raft of potential issues and pitfalls.

There are very good reasons why the team is small - no point in going into the details - these have been explained so many times in the past, if you haven't understood by now, you never will!

(I think they chose a racing sim partly because it was possible to do with a small team... It's not a coincidence that there are other high quality racing sim projects being developed by very small teams !)

And besides, even if they did decide to expand the team, I think it is likely that they would look for someone they know from their wider network of game development contacts.

I wonder if racing drivers IRL are as bored of racing as sim racers?
They do the same tracks year after year with the same car.

TBH, you can't really compare the two.

Quote from danowat :

TBH, you can't really compare the two.

What a ridiculous thing to say - of course you can compare them.

Apples > Oranges

Quote from col :

What a ridiculous thing to say - of course you can compare them.

In YOUR opinion maybe, but in mine it's completely different.

I can ride around Snetterton for real untill the cows come home, infact when I am doing it for real, I don't even see the surroundings.

In a computer game/sim, it's very different, you lose a HELL of a lot of the visceral feedback you get IRL, which is why it's nice to have a change of scenery to break up the monotany.

You just can't compare real life to a sim, it's completely different.

Quote from March Hare :

I wonder if racing drivers IRL are as bored of racing as sim racers?
They do the same tracks year after year with the same car.

I suppose if you only spent a few hours over a single weekend at each of the tracks, plus a handful of testing hours in a year, before taking a winter break and moving on to the next season or switching to a different series, then you're not likely to get bored of it very quickly. I don't expect many of us play LFS like that.

Quote from sinbad :

I suppose if you only spent a few hours over a single weekend at each of the tracks, plus a handful of testing hours in a year, before taking a winter break and moving on to the next season or switching to a different series, then you're not likely to get bored of it very quickly. I don't expect many of us play LFS like that.

... and LFS (or any other sim) tracks doesn't have so much detail as any real life track has and the conditions doesn't change every lap.

Quote from _--NZ--_[HUN] :

... and LFS (or any other sim) tracks doesn't have so much detail as any real life track has and the conditions doesn't change every lap.

Obviously, but there are countless differences if you're going to look at it that way, no danger, no adrenaline in LFS, LFS is "just a game", no financial investment, less of a social thing, no real car to work on or take pride in the preparation of etc etc etc.

The point is that you can't make the comparison because nobody plays LFS in the same way, or to the same timetables that real life racing has to follow. Most people probably notch up hours "in the seat" close to the total of a season of real racing within the first few weeks of owning the game, some possibly within days.

I can more laps of Blackwood in a day than I will ever do in real life, racing, trackdays or whatever at, say, Snetterton.

So, no, real racers don't get bored in reality like sim racers do in sims.

Plus, in reality, the risk is an added excitment - gets the adrenaline pumping, which a sim doesn't (in that respect).

Quote from danowat :

In YOUR opinion maybe, but in mine it's completely different.

I can ride around Snetterton for real untill the cows come home, infact when I am doing it for real, I don't even see the surroundings.

In a computer game/sim, it's very different, you lose a HELL of a lot of the visceral feedback you get IRL, which is why it's nice to have a change of scenery to break up the monotany.

You just can't compare real life to a sim, it's completely different.

First you stated that you cannot compare the two.
Then you compared them (the red and the blue section - the tell-tale phrase is in large bold letters).
Then you again stated that they cannot be compared...

My head is now officially spinning :biggrinfl

Whatever mate, not sure what your problem is, but I can't be bothered to try and explain it to someone who is intent on making everything I say look worthless and contridictory.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Apples > Oranges

Quote from danowat :

Whatever mate, not sure what your problem is, but I can't be bothered to try and explain it to someone who is intent on making everything I say look worthless and contridictory.

I got you Col. Cheeky git

Quote from maczo :

These are two completely different things. I'm not even close to doing a WR on AS National in any car, but I don't ever ever race it unless it's in a league event, which then I just have to. It's THAT boring

On a sidenote - funny, how Aston got me bored a lot faster than South City, which we've had for a lot longer and which I could still drive every day. Says something about track attractiveness

If you are bored, then you are not putting enough into it. There are so many more facets of racing than just lapping or even pickup races online. Skinning, setups, understanding the physics, what exactly does 50 Knm/s really mean... etc. Plenty of stuff to do. Organize a league, put a team together for endurance racing... man the list just goes on.

The point is, if you are bored, then I will tell you the same thing I tell my kids: We are not responsible for entertaining you. Quit whining and go engage your mind. You just might find out that you have one and it can be very entertaining to play with.

excellent post Hallen

Now that should end this thread !! as it answers the original question perfectly.

Nuff said.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Why bother doing something it is isn't done right? No one wins awards for mediocrity. There is no excuse to EVER release crap work

I just think it is way over the top to ask a 100% accurate track when a) it's free, b) done without costly and accurate maps and guides and c) it doesn't even claim to be 100% realistic.

I don't get this "no real tracks unless 10000% accurate". Tracks in games like LFS are just virtual presentations of the tracks, not exact virtual models of the real tracks.

Just a polished and accurate 3d-model won't cut it anyway

Quote from Hallen :

Skinning, setups, understanding the physics, what exactly does 50 Knm/s really mean... etc.

50 Kelvinnanometres per seconds