I can whole heartedly agree with the post by Richard 
There is not the best simulator. There are many good simulators each one fitting the tastes of their publics on those attributes they have better.
So, RF community is happy for the unnumbered mods (too much crap), Simbin fans have the real world link, LFS has the mp and gameplay and so on.
So, RF community is happy for the unnumbered mods (too much crap), Simbin fans have the real world link, LFS has the mp and gameplay and so on.
^^agreed with Soro.
If only you could combine the best bits of LFS with the best bits of nKPro and have the opportunity to add QUALITY mods ,you would be edging towards the best track racing sim ever.
Both products could learn a few lessons from each other.
If only you could combine the best bits of LFS with the best bits of nKPro and have the opportunity to add QUALITY mods ,you would be edging towards the best track racing sim ever.
Both products could learn a few lessons from each other.
For me it's how the cars feel. LFS is the only racing game I've played that doesn't feel events driven. Most games seem to be something like:
if speed > x and angle > x then begin oversteer
And the cars all seem to just float about and be pulled along on strings
Where as LFS feels more like a physics simulator. To me it feels like the accellerator makes the rear wheels turn, which then makes the box you're sitting in move forward; while the front wheels pushing against the road cause the car to yaw blah blah blah. It just feels connected and real to me.
That and the fact it's written by a programming monk. I bet he wears a robe.
if speed > x and angle > x then begin oversteer
And the cars all seem to just float about and be pulled along on strings
Where as LFS feels more like a physics simulator. To me it feels like the accellerator makes the rear wheels turn, which then makes the box you're sitting in move forward; while the front wheels pushing against the road cause the car to yaw blah blah blah. It just feels connected and real to me.
That and the fact it's written by a programming monk. I bet he wears a robe.
With LFS and NKP you get a great driving experiance,
NKP is probrably better with stalling and great sounds but LFS has the best online mode,(its hard at times finding even one person online in NKP!),
Both of these sims however feel like the tyres are touching the tarmac, unlike the G motor based games with its floaty driving experiance
NKP is probrably better with stalling and great sounds but LFS has the best online mode,(its hard at times finding even one person online in NKP!),
Both of these sims however feel like the tyres are touching the tarmac, unlike the G motor based games with its floaty driving experiance
Yup, these are the only two track racing sims that feel natural and actually go some way to convincing me that I'm racing a car, not playing a game.
And NR2003 ... that reminds me, must pull that out of the cupboard sometime
Ahh, i never got round to trying NR2003, though i keep hearing good things about it....must check it out some time.
I don't know. I've never raced seriously before. Ok, i've played a lot of colin mcrae back in '96, but only with keyboard (the reason: couldn't buy a wheel) and chase cam. When i first found lfs in 2003 iirc (I read about it in a forum, they said it has very realistic physics), I played it for a few weeks, but not more. Then i started playing with it again in september 2006 with mouse, and something clicked in in my mind: "This is great, I have to buy a wheel and S2!". So here I am, I'm enjoying it very very much, but haven't tried any other sim since that, even now that I have a wheel and a brand new computer. Maybe I'll give netkar a shot... or even rtractor, just to see how crap it is (now it would be awful if I found it great
).Well, NR2003 was the cream of the crop back then (I never tried GPL, and have no idea when RBR was around...) But after running LFS, NR2003 just doesn't cut it any more. That, and it was strictly a "Nascar" sim, ie, oval to me. I've tried the various mods and never liked the road course mods. They just didn't feel right. But the Craftsman Truck and especially the Aero88 Wars were awesome. So, pre LFS and NkPro (never tried that either), yes, NR2003 was the one. And in my opinion, it still is if you remove LFS and NkPro from the mix.
RBR has only been around for about 2 years. It drives great and looks great if you can turn all the eye candy up...It can probably be picked up quite cheaply. If you like rallying I'd recommend it without a second thought.
I saw it in game for 5.99 (in the uk) and with RBR net it works online!
Its truly hardcore tho, a great drive
Its truly hardcore tho, a great drive
I know nothing about how a simulator is made, but as a heavy user I realize some things that are different in LFS facing the others.
One thing that for me differs LFS, is "to be inside" of the game.
RBR, RF (and its mods such Simbins games) and NKP look like I am sat within a simulator cabin, with a screen in front of me rolling the track, in the same manner of those malls "simulators".
I could say that there are two enviroments in those games, one is the cabin, other is the world outside that you see on the screen.
That is so evident that if you change the camera from inner to outer one, you notice that the things change in something. You loose the contact.
I'm not saying anything about the physics. It is just that feel of "to be inside".
LFS is different. It gives the sensation that I'm "in" the game. Everything happens in one unique environment, your car and the track are in the same virtual space, and you are there.
So when you change your point of view (from the inner camera to outer camera, or from your car to the others cars), the "things" are still there, the same 3d models, the same environment, the same textures, the same everything.
Things don't change when you change your camera, cause there are no tricks, there are no virtual inside the virtual, there are no lies, everything in that little virtual world is true in some form.
This manner of doing the thing is probably the best element of the fantastic immersion that LFS gives.
The other thing and this is as so important as, is the Force Feedback. The FFB of LFS has no effects trying to imitate something real. It only reacts to the forces that act on the tyres and suspension arms, nothing more than that.
That feels real, that is sincere, that gives immersion.
The physics of LFS is not an accurated model of the reality, but it is related with its own world. And it is fiel to itself.
I use to say that LFS is not a car simulator, but a racing game with a virtual environment that imitates cars and tracks.
It has its own world with its own physics, and you feel it cause you are inside the game.
As I always say and it is on my signature: LFSensation, you know when you feel.
One thing that for me differs LFS, is "to be inside" of the game.
RBR, RF (and its mods such Simbins games) and NKP look like I am sat within a simulator cabin, with a screen in front of me rolling the track, in the same manner of those malls "simulators".
I could say that there are two enviroments in those games, one is the cabin, other is the world outside that you see on the screen.
That is so evident that if you change the camera from inner to outer one, you notice that the things change in something. You loose the contact.
I'm not saying anything about the physics. It is just that feel of "to be inside".
LFS is different. It gives the sensation that I'm "in" the game. Everything happens in one unique environment, your car and the track are in the same virtual space, and you are there.
So when you change your point of view (from the inner camera to outer camera, or from your car to the others cars), the "things" are still there, the same 3d models, the same environment, the same textures, the same everything.
Things don't change when you change your camera, cause there are no tricks, there are no virtual inside the virtual, there are no lies, everything in that little virtual world is true in some form.
This manner of doing the thing is probably the best element of the fantastic immersion that LFS gives.
The other thing and this is as so important as, is the Force Feedback. The FFB of LFS has no effects trying to imitate something real. It only reacts to the forces that act on the tyres and suspension arms, nothing more than that.
That feels real, that is sincere, that gives immersion.
The physics of LFS is not an accurated model of the reality, but it is related with its own world. And it is fiel to itself.
I use to say that LFS is not a car simulator, but a racing game with a virtual environment that imitates cars and tracks.
It has its own world with its own physics, and you feel it cause you are inside the game.
As I always say and it is on my signature: LFSensation, you know when you feel.
For me its what type of Motorsport I want to simulate, for NASCAR Cup, GNS and Trucks, NR2003 is the King.
For Formula cars netkarPro is the best, and all other type of cars LFS.
I can see its going to be worth my while to get NR2003 out and try some of these patches
Okay, but dont be scared of the price, it doesnt get sold anymore in shops, and anyone who got it doesnt want to sell it it seems, so Prices for NR2003 at ebay are around 100 - 200 Dollars, but it is well worth the money, I have bought two copies just to be on the safe side , 4 and a half years old and still very popular online and still beeing used as a Training Tool for some real NASCAR drivers. Dale Earnhardt Jr. got his own League for example.
Do also check out these Mods:
NASCAR Grand National Cars
NASCAR Craftsman Trucks
NASCAR Cup 1970
Open Wheel Mod
Grand Touring Car Mod
GTP Mod
You can also get a nice Magny Cours and Spa.
The good thing is, the move to go from LFS to a Papyrus Sim and / or back, goes rather comfortably and fast, thats because both Sims are excellent in Physics so it doesnt take much time to adapt.
, 4 and a half years old and still very popular online and still beeing used as a Training Tool for some real NASCAR drivers. Dale Earnhardt Jr. got his own League for example.Do also check out these Mods:
NASCAR Grand National Cars
NASCAR Craftsman Trucks
NASCAR Cup 1970
Open Wheel Mod
Grand Touring Car Mod
GTP Mod
You can also get a nice Magny Cours and Spa.
The good thing is, the move to go from LFS to a Papyrus Sim and / or back, goes rather comfortably and fast, thats because both Sims are excellent in Physics so it doesnt take much time to adapt.
Loads of valid points, as usual, Richard. 
I think people who have spent a lot of time with LFS have learned to live past its flaws and still enjoy it. I'm really looking forward to the work to come in the not-too-distant future though because it looks like it will be addressing some of the issues you described. I must say, I'm not spending much tiime at all on LFS lately - mostly because of lack of free time but also because of some of the things you mentioned.
I can't really understand your lack of development point though. LFS is developing quite quickly considering the size of the dev team. The fact that Eric's latest work doesn't appear in any of the compatible patches is surely part of the reason for what you think. Another would be the fact that Scawen has mostly worked on polishing off things insignificant to the overall experience in the past year - I see it as preparation for a massive physics push though.
I think people who have spent a lot of time with LFS have learned to live past its flaws and still enjoy it. I'm really looking forward to the work to come in the not-too-distant future though because it looks like it will be addressing some of the issues you described. I must say, I'm not spending much tiime at all on LFS lately - mostly because of lack of free time but also because of some of the things you mentioned.I can't really understand your lack of development point though. LFS is developing quite quickly considering the size of the dev team. The fact that Eric's latest work doesn't appear in any of the compatible patches is surely part of the reason for what you think. Another would be the fact that Scawen has mostly worked on polishing off things insignificant to the overall experience in the past year - I see it as preparation for a massive physics push though.
How it can cost so much? Did they produce exceptionally small amount of copies when it was released or what explains this? Hmm... I think Richard Burns Rally (looks like it might be in similar situation in couple of years than N2003) was 8 € on Play.com... I think I just got a business idea.
The way NASCAR Racing 2003 Season got so expensive was awkward.
Awkward in a sense that a Software gets more expensive over time.
The way it happened was that one year after its release Vivendi who owned Papyrus lost the NASCAR license to EA Sports.
So from 2004 onwards Papyrus/Vivendi was not allowed to sell NASCAR Racing 2003, and EA Sports kept bringing out NASCAR games that truly sucked. Even the Arcade Mode in NR2003 is better.
Anyhow, due to its popularity, NASCAR Racing 2003 by Papyurs was still selled on ebay and other such places.
The demand for the Sim kept high and rose, while there were no more new copies to buy, that way NASCAR Racing 2003 kept on getting more expensive threw the years.
They were alot of people buying NASCAR Racing 2003 at the end of 2003 for bargain price like 5 Dollars, to be years later selled at ebay for 150 Dollars and above.
Papyrus, the creator of it, who selled it for 40 Dollars at the Release, went bankrupt with Vivendi.
By the way Richard Burns Rally is the best Rally Sim, anyone with only a slight interest in Rally should get it as soon as possible.
Awkward in a sense that a Software gets more expensive over time.
The way it happened was that one year after its release Vivendi who owned Papyrus lost the NASCAR license to EA Sports.
So from 2004 onwards Papyrus/Vivendi was not allowed to sell NASCAR Racing 2003, and EA Sports kept bringing out NASCAR games that truly sucked. Even the Arcade Mode in NR2003 is better.
Anyhow, due to its popularity, NASCAR Racing 2003 by Papyurs was still selled on ebay and other such places.
The demand for the Sim kept high and rose, while there were no more new copies to buy, that way NASCAR Racing 2003 kept on getting more expensive threw the years.
They were alot of people buying NASCAR Racing 2003 at the end of 2003 for bargain price like 5 Dollars, to be years later selled at ebay for 150 Dollars and above.
Papyrus, the creator of it, who selled it for 40 Dollars at the Release, went bankrupt with Vivendi.
By the way Richard Burns Rally is the best Rally Sim, anyone with only a slight interest in Rally should get it as soon as possible.
Richard, thanks a lot for your thoughts. Very illuminating.
I certainly agree that IRacing will be an interesting one to watch.
Cheers.
I didnt read all four pages, but LFS is no doubt, my favorite game of all time. Why? Its online mode is awsome, its got GREAT physics, for being made by 3 guys, its awsome, and its more of a "friendly game, than a serious game, but the racers still race fairly.
Therse just too much to explain, but it really is amazing. Could it be better? Yes. Its still awsome.
Therse just too much to explain, but it really is amazing. Could it be better? Yes. Its still awsome.
I am still kicking myself today over this. I bought a copy last year for..... $7.95 US. Yup, sure did. It was at a closeout store, one of those stores that buys out old inventory from closing down stores. I counted when I picked on up, they had 98 copies of NR2003, all for $8. I said to the wife, I should buy them all and sell them on ebay. I didn't know they were going for around $130-150 then. I thought they were still around $50. If I wasn't so dead broke, I probably would have bought them. But I would have had to take out a loan to buy them, that's how broke I am, hehe. Would definitely been worth it though, most definitely!
-1
Everything what u write is absolutely annoying!
U are right by the children-games. It is better u leave LFS i guess.
Using "u" when you have whole keyboard in front of you (instead of a phone keypad) is really annoying, especially when you spell everything else properly
I don't consider LFS to be "so much better than anything else". But perhaps when it's complete, maybe. In its current form though, it's bloody good, otherwise I wouldn't loiter around these forums so much! There are several things that need attention but most of know what they are and I won't be doing anyone a favour by repeating them. It's a really good simulator and leaves many of its competitors for dead though, even in its alpha stage, which is a pretty good achievement.
The thing I love most about LFS (apart from the driving experience, especially of the UF1, and the different types of cars) is that I can nearly always find a server running either a car, track or combination I like - that actually has people in it. With nKP this is virtually impossible unless I wish to join a league and race during Central Euro time, which would mean getting up way too early. Many of us will be aware of nKP's faults too, which are (apart from the physics and the driving experience) more numerous than those of LFS. Also, nKP has awesome potential and a completely shithouse PR department.
However, GPL will always be my favourite because of the uniquely immersive feeling you get in the cockpit, the amazing cars it simulates (and the awesome season mods) and the hundreds of real tracks, lovingly crafted by an insane community of trainspotters LFS rocks, but GPL rules :up:
I don't consider LFS to be "so much better than anything else". But perhaps when it's complete, maybe. In its current form though, it's bloody good, otherwise I wouldn't loiter around these forums so much! There are several things that need attention but most of know what they are and I won't be doing anyone a favour by repeating them. It's a really good simulator and leaves many of its competitors for dead though, even in its alpha stage, which is a pretty good achievement.
The thing I love most about LFS (apart from the driving experience, especially of the UF1
, and the different types of cars) is that I can nearly always find a server running either a car, track or combination I like - that actually has people in it. With nKP this is virtually impossible unless I wish to join a league and race during Central Euro time, which would mean getting up way too early. Many of us will be aware of nKP's faults too, which are (apart from the physics and the driving experience) more numerous than those of LFS. Also, nKP has awesome potential and a completely shithouse PR department.However, GPL will always be my favourite because of the uniquely immersive feeling you get in the cockpit, the amazing cars it simulates (and the awesome season mods) and the hundreds of real tracks, lovingly crafted by an insane community of trainspotters
LFS rocks, but GPL rules :up:Since I found LFS, chicks dig me more. Live For Speed gave me the confidence I needed to turn my life around. I kicked my petrol-sniffing addiction, became an astronaut, and found a cure for cancer. Life is good, Live For Speed.
Why Is LFS So Much Better Than Anything Else?
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