Yep, as it has already been said, you are a real event simulator kind of player! Not a real physics one! There s no big deal with that, there's space for everyone but LFS is clearly not a game for you
Yep, as it has already been said, you are a real event simulator kind of player! Not a real physics one! There s no big deal with that, there's space for everyone but LFS is clearly not a game for you
sounds and graphicks are not bad .. anything isnt really bad , it dont have any bad things like some games that can overshadow good ones
Please stop generalising about an entire community. The rFactor community has long acknowledged that the LFS FFB system is more realistic.
A quote from the RealFeel plugin ReadMe:
If that isn't a nod to the (previously) superior FFB system in LFS then what is?
What ISI did with the rFactor FFB was create a system that would mask badly modelled suspension geometry and would provide 'decent' feedback even when suspension geometry was not accurate. This allowed modders to build cars without worrying whether their geometry was millimetre perfect and still have them drive acceptably.
What we have done with the RealFeel plugin is stripped away all this processing and send the forces on the steering rack direct to the wheel. Combine this with cars with accurately modelled suspension (such as the Caterham Caterbusa and Caterham Powertec) and the results are virtually indistinguishable from the 'feel' of LFS. I kid you not. Anyone in Edinburgh is quite welcome to pop round to my place and feel it for yourself.
Irony? No, not at all. Progress? Yes.
Hey TechAde! Never noticed your name in this forum before. Would you care to elaborate on why that love affair was lost? I personally think this would be interesting to hear from somebody who obviously has moved from LFS/RBR to rFactor.
(And I hope there will not be too much flaming and fanboy-retorts if people in this forum should happen to not agree with your reasoning -- Unfortunately I can't guarantee safe conduct, though
.)could someone post the tyre file of these caterhams please ?
I'm not brave enough, sorry
Come on, I'm interested... Don't be afraid!
It's hard to put a finger on any particular thing to be honest. Initially it was the atmosphere at the tracks and the sounds that got me hooked, it just felt more alive. I never really liked the FFB and tweaked everything I could to try to get it more direct and LFS-like, but it kept dragging me back anyway. I had doubts about the physics engine to be honest, but over time they have slowly but surely dissolved (mostly - of course there are still some issues, like there are with LFS, RBR, any sim you care to name).
The netcode is a biggie, very fluid and allows real door to door racing with hardly any perceptible lag and hardly any "why did it do that?" moments.
Moddability is another biggie.
More recently Kangaloosh! has done some amazing work to produce carFactory, a piece of software that helps build suspension and tyres for rFactor. It was his questioning of the FFB system that triggered the whole RealFeel plugin. He had calculated that the physics engine was doing all the right things to within 0.1 degs, but changes in suspension geometry weren't doing what they should to the forces at the wheel. That's where the plugin comes in, which when combined with the carFactory generated Caterhams (and hopefully a lot of the upcoming mods) allows me to feel how good the physics engine really is.
The driving physics are pretty much spot on, the FFB was the problem all along IMO.
I'm downloading the demo now, to check for myself... It's HUGE though 
And you didn't mention what made you leave LFS...
Edit: Bah, new page
And you didn't mention what made you leave LFS...
Edit: Bah, new page
I've not tried the cars from the demo with RealFeel but I wouldn't expect them to be very realistic as they won't have had their suspensions tuned to perfection. Unfortunately you can't use add-on cars (i.e. the carFactory Caterhams) without unlocking - oh oh, I see where this is going, I'll shut-up right now.
Okay, how the **** do I do a few practice laps on that? That main menu is quite bad
Probably best head over to the rFactor forums at RSC, this isn't really the place....
Fair enough, not the ENTIRE community but quite a large part of it, but nevermind...
Can you point me some links please to the Real feel plugin and the best mod for it, so i can try it out myself?
Techade, I'm one of the many who had follow your work with RFP on the RSC forum, and if I had one word to describe your initiative it would be "fantastic".
But I still cannot feel the same response that I feel with LFS. I think maybe rFactor needs the FFB like it is originally made to fit with its physics engine. Or maybe RFP is still in a stage that has not shown its entire capability. Or mods, even Caterham, are still not well designed or whatever. I know nothing for sure. I'm just supposing things to justify that I cannot feel the same feedback yet.
But I'm not saying that LFS has better physics than rFactor. I really don't know how tho judge this, cause I feel it good sometimes and not good sometimes.
We could say that in LFS, being the FFB a raw feedback from the suspension reactions, the suspension and tyres must to be working wery well, cause you can prove it in your steering wheel.
By other side, its physics is still a doubt cause you can do things that is not supposed to do in real life and there are some improper reactions once in a while from just-God-knows-where.
So sometimes it feels and looks perfect, sometimes not, and the same can be said from rF. At least that is what I feel.
I think in both cases it is just a matter of use. In them both you can start feeling a good feedback once you understand how the things work in each. Yesterday night I decided to run in Toban Short with Ztypes just to remember 2004, and it was really immersive, too much deep and pleasant.
rFactor can be great, people just need to learn how to feel it. I say that for people from here, as the same manner I same that LFS is great for people from there. So, I understand your reasons for giving up of LFS, but I can't imagine myself doing the same
Back to the FFB discussion, here RBR was used as an example of good FFB, but it is just good after tweak the physics.lsp file. Before that, in its original mode, it has a bad lag, and the FFB does not feel very well. Apart from that, there is also the tarmac issue: in tarmac RBR is not "very good" to be polite.
I have said that I don't see any simulator as done, cause they are all still in development with too many lacks yet to be worked.
But I still cannot feel the same response that I feel with LFS. I think maybe rFactor needs the FFB like it is originally made to fit with its physics engine. Or maybe RFP is still in a stage that has not shown its entire capability. Or mods, even Caterham, are still not well designed or whatever. I know nothing for sure. I'm just supposing things to justify that I cannot feel the same feedback yet.
But I'm not saying that LFS has better physics than rFactor. I really don't know how tho judge this, cause I feel it good sometimes and not good sometimes.
We could say that in LFS, being the FFB a raw feedback from the suspension reactions, the suspension and tyres must to be working wery well, cause you can prove it in your steering wheel.
By other side, its physics is still a doubt cause you can do things that is not supposed to do in real life and there are some improper reactions once in a while from just-God-knows-where.
So sometimes it feels and looks perfect, sometimes not, and the same can be said from rF. At least that is what I feel.
I think in both cases it is just a matter of use. In them both you can start feeling a good feedback once you understand how the things work in each. Yesterday night I decided to run in Toban Short with Ztypes just to remember 2004, and it was really immersive, too much deep and pleasant.
rFactor can be great, people just need to learn how to feel it. I say that for people from here, as the same manner I same that LFS is great for people from there. So, I understand your reasons for giving up of LFS, but I can't imagine myself doing the same
Back to the FFB discussion, here RBR was used as an example of good FFB, but it is just good after tweak the physics.lsp file. Before that, in its original mode, it has a bad lag, and the FFB does not feel very well. Apart from that, there is also the tarmac issue: in tarmac RBR is not "very good" to be polite.
I have said that I don't see any simulator as done, cause they are all still in development with too many lacks yet to be worked.
Sure, the main RSC thread is at:
http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=291072
The Caterham mod can be found at:
http://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=Caterham
Please note it is only the Caterbusa and Powertec models that have had their suspension generated in carFactory and therefore provide more accurate forces at the steering rack that the other models.
I feel like I'm spamming here and it's making me uncomfortable - please, any more RealFeel questions could I ask they be posted over at RSC? Also, if you're going to try RealFeel please read the ReadMe in it's entirety.
Thank you
Then I'd say something isn't quite setup correctly at your end. There are so many parameters (car setup, realfeel ini, controller.ini, windows controller settings) that will affect what you feel it, if one of them isn't set correctly it can destroy the feel entirely. If you'd like to post all the gory details over at RSC I'll do my best to help
Very realistic, very fun game with an awsome community backing it up..
Plus it's a simulator for PC.
Plus it's a simulator for PC.
Actually I think there is no excuse to publish mod without using Kangaloosh's tools now, they just make possibility of error to be very much smaller. Yes, I'm using it too. Also Real FFB is giving lot better feedback now.
But still you can get odd and weird driving characteristic because of tires and other suspension / body parameters.
Luckily there is now helpful tool from Niels to get stuff closer to what it should be. If it would not be Niels and Bristow, there would perhaps not been even near that much improvement. Sure I have done something small too, but that is rather small part and it really has not so much effect, but a little still.
But still I feel that rFactor is missing few things in gameplay, specially online that makes it not so useful at least for me.
In LFS you can change track and car without needing of disconnecting from host. That suits well to it what I like to have from online racing, also still I feel that car has tires and mass in LFS, can't help it, even I have my own baby in rFactor I still launch LFS when I would like to really drive.
Niels's C6 and my own mod are two that has got closest to that feeling I'm getting in LFS and missing in rFactor, but I think there is still bit to improve.
But if we look what ISI offers it is not much of realism really, it is their customers that have made work for them, they have big team but there is something missing as they quite can't make sim like cars. Maybe it is that they don't even intend to do such, but do prefer making ISI type of cars for people who are fan of those. Maybe it is afraid of change that is limiting them, they still base some of stuff to SCGT.
Is the C6 still in development? And if not, where can I get it? And how about your mod, what is it and is it finished?
TechAde, I want to thank you for trying as hard as you are to make rFactor feel better. As someone else said, the initiative is tremendous and everyone really appreciates it. That said, I can't find a car that works well with RFP. It's probably just my settings, but I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to changing them and the readme/forums haven't been much help. Essentially, the front tires always feel like they're balancing on a knife edge, and the slightest touch to turn the wheel to either side makes them flop over that way quite dramatically. There's no strong centering feel, and in general it feels very jerky and twitchy. I'm looking forward to future revisions, though, and perhaps some presets for specific wheels (I use a MS Sidewinder FF).
C6 is not finished, imo. I think that Niels would need new 3d model for that too, but he knows best of that.
My mod is this, also not yet released, but possible to test, however lot is to be changed still in it.
DeadWolfBones, I'm using DFP and setting force effects to low and feedback strenght to 30-40% seem to work when I have set it to 101% from windows.
However ISI FFB code is not MSFF wheel compatible really, I remember when I did try to play that game with it, best was keep force effects off, every corner did felt different and quite often ffb system started to pull one direction or otherway did go crazy.
In LFS MSFF wheel did work better than DFP, imo. But surely time has gone past that wheel as amount wheel turns is just too small for sim use.
One should reduce steering lock to ridiculous setting to get proper feeling, I did thought that 900 degrees would be something I don't ever use, but after getting this wheel I have learned that 280 degrees or similar does not really relay any realistic driving feel, it is way too easy to catch tail for example.
Whilst out on track use RightCtrl+Numpad8 to reverse the direction of force. This is dependant on whether the car has the steering rack infront of or behind the front wheels.
This effect could also be caused by negative caster.
That said, you shouldn't need to do that with the Caterbusa and Powertec Caterhams, the defaults should be fine (and caster is locked at 0). Those are the only 2 cars released to date that I have tried and would wholeheartedly recommend with RealFeel. IronFly's M3 e46 Street is also pretty good, though not quite spot on (however IronFly is working on fixing it up).
Sorry again to litter the LFS forum with rFactor babble - that said there do seem to be a number of us who enjoy both, so I don't feel too bad
I'm still using it because it hasn't crapped out on me yet, and I don't have the cash to upgrade without a serious reason to do so. I'm quite quick in LFS (if I do say so myself
) with the MSFF, so I'll probably keep using it till it dies (4 years gone and it's still plugging away).I haven't had any issue with the lack of extra rotation... but then I mostly use the formula cars and they have less wheel turn by nature, anyway.
The Caterham mod is actually the first one I tried with RFP, because I heard it worked so well. I'll try the suggestions you made and hopefully they'll help.
The Caterham mod yes, but you also have to pick the right cars within the mod - only the Powertec and Caterbusa have suspension designed by Kangaloosh in carFactory. The others will need the force reversed.
If you don't feel what you should with the Powertec and Caterbusa at default values then there's probably something amiss in your controller.ini or control panel settings - the ReadMe should help you out there.
Why Is LFS So Much Better Than Anything Else?
(315 posts, started )
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